Has Anyone Actually Found The Historical Jesus Of The Nt

[wakeupcall]

Hi All,

 

 

Six months ago I would not have been writing this. I was, to all intents and purposes, a fully-fledged, bible-believing Christian.

 

 

If I had come across this website I would have been sad and prayerful for all the 'lost souls' posting whose assured destiny was hell.

 

I became a born again Christian over 14 years ago and had not doubted the inerrancy of the bible nor my belief in Jesus Christ after my conversion.

 

My church life had not gone smoothly as I quickly discovered that most churches are mainly interested in worker bees with big pockets rather than the well being of the individual and difficult questions tend to be glossed over with the polish of someone running for political office.

 

As a result I was not a regular church attendee but was part of a local bible study group.

 

I received my wake up call in January during my daily bible reading whilst studying Timothy, in particular, 2 Timothy 3:16 - 'All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness..'.

The internal thought conversation went a bit like this...

 

"hmmm I wonder what scripture Paul was referring to as I'm sure that the whole bible hadn't been written before Timothy"

 

"Well maybe it was just a general comment.."

 

"Must look at this in a bit more depth when I have time".

 

Bible closed and off to work however the thought just wouldn't leave me alone. By the time I had finished work I felt the need to do some self study.

 

Many of you will not be suprised at the journey I have been through over the last few months - reviewing the compilation of the bible, early church fathers, Christianity's resemblance to earlier pagan religions, interpolations into historical documents and discovering the differing view points of the early Christians.

 

Essentially doing all the 'due diligiance' about the religion that I would advise anyone to do who was considering a business proposal or investment. Let's be honest Christianity is an investment of your time, heart and money.

 

The aspect that suprised me most was the virtually total absence, if not complete absence, of any qualified historical data regarding the existance of the Jesus of the bible. Plenty of Jesus' mentioned but not THE Jesus.

 

The websites that had the greatest impact on me were http://rationalrevol...h_history.htm#1 and http://www.jesusneverexisted.com

 

I really wanted to dismiss the information that I was uncovering but after comparing the modern apologetics with the likes of Ken Humphreys, Bart Ehrmann, D M Murdock, G Massey etc etc - I realised that I was losing the battle and couldn't hold back the tide any longer.

 

The roller coaster of emotions is quite painful and have been quite angry that pastors, who have completed theological qualifications, can stand at the front of the congregation state that the bible is inerrant. Especially as trained pastors must know that there is such a derth of historical data

 

On the positive side I can now embrace people for what they are and no longer judge people basis on their religion or life choices.

 

Freedom of mind is a precious gift, which allows us to explore concepts and ideas untainted by pre constraining ideologies.

 

There is one question that I would like to throw open to all...has anyone actually found the historical Jesus?

[NoGods]

Many believe it to be an unanswerable question but others think it can be answered or at the very least addressed.

 

I think that Jesus never existed is the form the bible has him in. There was very likely a wisdom teacher or preacher that caused a bit of trouble for the Romans in Jerusalem/Palestine (at least in their eyes) They would have viewed him as an insurrectionist and swiftly made an example of him. He would have died a slow public death with a sign above him stating his crime. The method most likely would have been crucifixion. Public deaths like this performed by the Romans were more for the on-lookers and passers-by then the condemned, as there were many faster easier ways to execute someone. A punishment like this was a statement, “You do this and this will be you”

 

Other than this very plausible information, there is really no knowing what the real Jesus was or what he did. The rest of the Jesus story was filled in years later and was built up just as any other legendary figure has been built. Most all believers think otherwise, but writing or saying it or even believing it does not make something true. If that were so, there would be millions of big ticket lottery winners.

[andyjj]

maybe he never did exist as a person. I have read some plausible arguments that he was a literary construct, synthesising pagan and jewish religious ideas, and that the earliest christians didn't believe in a historic Jesus. Apparently the attempt to give him a historic past came later, as a way of differentiating Christianity from Pagan religion

 

Mind you, that doesn't explain why there appears to be historic evidence of Jesus' brother James and groups like the ebionites.

 

Paul never appears to mention an actual historic Jesus, just the 'Risen Christ'

[Auzlatino]

Hey everyone!

 

I want someone to give me an answer to these letters concening Jesus being real, If ithey are fact or fiction, i found on a website called www.neverthirsty.org

click on the historical Jesus on the left side of the screen when your on the website.

 

thanks

[♦ Fuego ♦]

Hey everyone!

 

I want someone to give me an answer to these letters concening Jesus being real, If ithey are fact or fiction, i found on a website called www.neverthirsty.org

click on the historical Jesus on the left side of the screen when your on the website.

 

thanks

 

That seems to be a Christian evangelical website, not an archaeological site. The letters in question were written after the death of Jesus, and in regard to his followers rather than a living man. No ancient historian yet discovered commented on Jesus until the recognition of his followers long after his death. No letters, no books, no one talking about miracles or miracle workers that could be traced to Jesus; no angry denunciations of Jesus by the Jews, no Roman records. Given the number of very public things reported in Matthew, this seems unlikely. The murder of the innocents by Herod in Matthew 2 is mentioned in no other historic document. The resurrection of several people from the local graveyard in Matthew 27:51-53 is mentioned by no Jewish or Roman writers outside of the book of Matthew. The large crowds and miracles mentioned in the gospels are all seemingly insignificant to anyone who could have written back then.

 

His life as written by his unknown followers in the gospels seems embellished, particularly in Matthew. My own hunch is that he was an early cult leader, and such followers typically embellish the facts about their leaders until they become god-like. The stories in the gospels seem to echo common folk-tales of deities of that region (virgin birth, turning water to wine, dying and being resurrected).

[HistorySkptc]

If anyone wants a bit of a laugh, check out Calpurnpiso's youtube channel here: http://www.youtube.com/calpurnpiso

 

He is definitely a character with a ton of 'bad' language and a blatant disregard for anyone who is not an atheist, but

he's entertaining and knowledgeable of ancient history especially. His theories focus on Jesus Christ being cobbled

together out of the Julius Caesar cult in Rome. So he obviously does not posit an historical Jesus.