Does Anyone Still Believe In God, Christ, And Being A Good Person

[SummerMoon]

without judging others to heaven or hell? Like psychology, new age writings, philosophy etc.

[Deva]

I believe in the good heart - being a good person. Christianity would not let me have that belief. On this site, you are not going to find many who say they believe in God, Christ, etc...

 

Not sure I am entirely clear on the question, though-- psychology & philosophy mostly doesn't believe in God, Christ, etc...

[ScifiChick]

I don't believe in God or Christ. And of course I believe in being a good person.

[lunaticheathen]

Abraham's god, by the accounts I've read, is an asshole. Even if I believed in him (and I only don't because I haven't encountered him), I wouldn't like him. The straight-up "God" most new age ideas speak of isn't really Abraham's god, and doesn't apply. I believe in a Divine, and various expressions of it. I strictly "believe" in those expressions I've interacted with. All else, I'm agnostic about.

Jesus might have existed, and might have been a good person. Some of the "Christ Consciousness" stuff is interesting, but I don't really follow it at all.

[SummerMoon]

Abraham's god, by the accounts I've read, is an asshole. Even if I believed in him (and I only don't because I haven't encountered him), I wouldn't like him. The straight-up "God" most new age ideas speak of isn't really Abraham's god, and doesn't apply. I believe in a Divine, and various expressions of it. I strictly "believe" in those expressions I've interacted with. All else, I'm agnostic about.

Jesus might have existed, and might have been a good person. Some of the "Christ Consciousness" stuff is interesting, but I don't really follow it at all.

 

The OT god is quite different. It looks like different gods from different planets. There are horrible stories in the OT for sure.

 

I see Christ as a good person but the church is not run right. They don't love nonchristians, they take tithes not in the NT and they use them for kids college, vacation, hobbies, retirement accounts, they make the simple "be a person of character" which is obvious to nonchritsians into a confused doctrine of "grace without works" basically to be a hypocrite. There is so many things wrong with church that it would fill too many pages here.

 

I believe in God and being good and I respect the good in all people and their right to privacy with their mind and heart and conscience, but Christians say you are going to hell just for being good or not being a christian. That's horrible and unfair. Jesus never said this. They do.

 

I pray and I want to be a good person and love people more and more and I hope my life will end on a good note. I don't believe anyone can say they know they are good without reflection and immediately saved and then they can't stop being good and will definitely go to heaven. It goes against all common sense. Jesus said that the good are rewarded for it and the bad get bad, or karma. No one has a problem with that, except when you become a Christian they don't accept common sense anymore. Any fucking thing their psychopathic pastor wants them to believe is acceptable to them and they will do it with a zombie straight face of complete belief.

[chosendarkness]

without judging others to heaven or hell? Like psychology, new age writings, philosophy etc.

The only people I can think of like that are Unitarians or Unity Church. They loosly believe the bible and believe in accepting all people regardless of their beliefs.

 

btw, I don't think anyone uses the phrase 'new age' anymore except for Christians.

[BlueGiant]

Nah, "New Age" does get used for the whole "spiritual not religious" thing. A lot.

 

I do not see how belief in God (I'm going to guess the Abrahamic one), Christ, and believing in being "good" is at all correlated.

 

Personally I (usually) believe in a god (or several). I'm sure the concept of Christ has it's uses (seems good for enslaving people...) And I do believe in good for certain values of good (definitely not the religious right's value of the term).

 

I have heard of Christians that reject the concept of hell. Seems more consistent if they are going for the whole "loving god" thing.

[Anselan]

I believe in the concept of God, as one that is still useful and meaningful. Something like Don Cupitt's "Christian nonrealism").

[hereticzero]

One doesn't have to be a religious person to be a good person. I help those who i can. I try to be friendly with people who are not my friend. I don't do it to score points with any deity. If I want a spiritual high, I go to the mountains or desert or lake for the afternoon. Just sitting and watching life play out in nature is fulfilling enough for me, and who knows, I may get a picture or two.

[DesertBob]

I have not felt my ethics or morality shift at all since I left Christianity. My motivations, on the other hand, have. Doing something because you want to rather than because you must or should, is always an improvement. Doing what your conscience and intuition tell you is right regardless of dogma or convention, is always an improvement.

[SummerMoon]

I have not felt my ethics or morality shift at all since I left Christianity. My motivations, on the other hand, have. Doing something because you want to rather than because you must or should, is always an improvement. Doing what your conscience and intuition tell you is right regardless of dogma or convention, is always an improvement.

 

Yes, I agree. I was at a chritsian support group a few months back thinking that maybe I'd fit in or find meaning there, a family or something, but the sermon given talked about how "the heathen" believed. As if nonchristians meant that you regarded others as having no concept of goodness or God or ethics. I haven't been able to get that out of my mind along with other things. I know that is how they really see others. They are full of elitism and pride and are not seeing others as the good people that they basically are though being human too.

[Kaiser01]

i dont belive in god as i find no morality with the cloud walker but i think jesus (if he existed) was a good person but completly misconcepted by christianity. i strive to do good for humanity and all life, for i have been given a new respect for life since i left the religion and i dont intend to ignore it.

[par4dcourse]

I used to believe in lots of things. Then I grew my curly hair and not so much anymore.

[AKR]

I believe in God and being good and I respect the good in all people and their right to privacy with their mind and heart and conscience, but Christians say you are going to hell just for being good or not being a christian. That's horrible and unfair. Jesus never said this. They do.

 

Actually, Jesus made it pretty clear that non-believers go to hell. You're trying to water down the Bible so you can hold onto the idea of god without the hard facts about that particular god as described in the Bible.

 

John 14:1 “Do not let your heart be troubled; believe in God, believe also in Me. 2 In My Father’s house are many dwelling places; if it were not so, I would have told you; for I go to prepare a place for you. 3 If I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself, that where I am, there you may be also. 4 And you know the way where I am going.” 5 Thomas *said to Him, “Lord, we do not know where You are going, how do we know the way?” 6 Jesus *said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.

 

John 3:16 "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."

 

John 1:12 Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— 13children born not of natural descent,[c] nor of human decision or a husband's will, but born of God.

 

Other parts of the NT talk about non-believers burning in hell, and if you don't believe those parts, why believe any parts?

[Galien]

I have not felt my ethics or morality shift at all since I left Christianity. My motivations, on the other hand, have. Doing something because you want to rather than because you must or should, is always an improvement. Doing what your conscience and intuition tell you is right regardless of dogma or convention, is always an improvement.

 

What Bob said, plus I don't believe people are inherently good. 36 years of christians taught me that much.

[DesertBob]

What Bob said, plus I don't believe people are inherently good. 36 years of christians taught me that much.

It is overly simplistic (and dangerous!) to say simply that people are inherently good, however, I don't feel they are inherently bad either. Most people want to do the Right Thing in any situation but often just don't have a clear idea of what that is or how to go about it, or operate out of fear or are stuck playing old tapes in their head or what have you.

 

In a sense, it's no help to understand that, because at the end of the day if someone is unreliable or flaky or nasty, the reason for it is kind of irrelevant. Except that for me at least, I'm a lot less angry and frustrated with folks if I understand that their shenanigans are a lot less personal than they might appear to be on the surface.

[Xerces]

I believe in being a good person, I can also be an asshole though, mostly through pranks and saying offensive things for the giggles. But I help homeless people, I aid people if I see them in trouble. I care about what is going on in the world and I want a better world. But I don't believe in "god" or jeebus, that shit is better left in the big book of fairy tales right next to red riding hood.

[AlphaToOmega]

I have not felt my ethics or morality shift at all since I left Christianity. My motivations, on the other hand, have. Doing something because you want to rather than because you must or should, is always an improvement. Doing what your conscience and intuition tell you is right regardless of dogma or convention, is always an improvement.

 

What Bob said, plus I don't believe people are inherently good. 36 years of christians taught me that much.

 

 

Doesn't that mean however that its Christians who are inherently bad?

Don't forget the prison statistics. Christians are between 40-80 times more likely to be involved in crime than atheists.

IOW, don't put the rest of us in the same basket as the loonies.

 

 

 

 

[oddbird1963]

I believe in being a good person, I can also be an asshole though . . .

 

I feel the same way about myself, Xerces.

 

I think the classification "good" or "bad" belongs to the realm of personal, subjective feelings. People can collectively agree that certain people, things or behaviors are good or bad, but it's really not a helpful way to approach life. Just like any strain of either/or thinking, "good/bad" seems a bit simplistic and infantile. That approach can also have an unnecessary polarizing effect between people. Once they're labeled "bad" a person, or group of people can then be vilified, demonized, marginalized and warred against much more easily.

 

I think all people are to one degree or another in conflict with themselves. They want to be better people. They have habits, attitudes and relationships which short-circuit attempts to become better people. Some people strive to be better. Some people have given up the struggle and either permanently consider themselves "bad" or too easily assume that they are "good" just the way they are without asking themselves if such an assessment is merited.

 

 

To my ex-wife, I am probably a "bad" person. To those who are still my friends, I am probably a "good" person. To the neighbor lady I mistook for an elderly oriental man this weekend, I am probably a total dick.

 

To myself, I am a good guy who wants to be better, though I seem to always shoot myself in the foot.

 

A god, a Christ and religion never really helped me with that struggle. Religion just created more categories, some totally imaginary, to be conflicted about. I finally figured out I can be conflicted all by myself without the input of religion and I can be good, on my own, without flinging myself at the feet of a god who was imaginary anyway.

[Char]

without judging others to heaven or hell? Like psychology, new age writings, philosophy etc.

Absolutely!

I have had many experiences that has proven to me that awareness connects you with

something other than this physical form. It happens when you least expect it. It seems to be part of me, and not something out there somewhere. Just a knowing. I think everytime someone trys to explain it, it turns into a Religion, because it is not possible to explain in words. It's also such a positive experience, that it's very hard not to want share it.

The only wat to share it is through Love, which is hard for us humans who want to put everything in words with a box around it, but this is how it protects itself from the EGO.

[SummerMoon]

without judging others to heaven or hell? Like psychology, new age writings, philosophy etc.

Absolutely!

I have had many experiences that has proven to me that awareness connects you with

something other than this physical form. It happens when you least expect it. It seems to be part of me, and not something out there somewhere. Just a knowing. I think everytime someone trys to explain it, it turns into a Religion, because it is not possible to explain in words. It's also such a positive experience, that it's very hard not to want share it.

The only wat to share it is through Love, which is hard for us humans who want to put everything in words with a box around it, but this is how it protects itself from the EGO.

 

Do you believe in a good God, and morality and a judgment and a heaven and hell? I do, but Christians will beat me over the head with it because I think that good is good no matter the label and they try

to control what I believe. You can't be good without saying your a christian they say. Uh, no, that's not it either.

[SummerMoon]

I believe in God and being good and I respect the good in all people and their right to privacy with their mind and heart and conscience, but Christians say you are going to hell just for being good or not being a christian. That's horrible and unfair. Jesus never said this. They do.

 

Actually, Jesus made it pretty clear that non-believers go to hell. You're trying to water down the Bible so you can hold onto the idea of god without the hard facts about that particular god as described in the Bible.

 

John 14:1 “Do not let your heart be troubled; believe in God, believe also in Me. 2 In My Father’s house are many dwelling places; if it were not so, I would have told you; for I go to prepare a place for you. 3 If I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself, that where I am, there you may be also. 4 And you know the way where I am going.” 5 Thomas *said to Him, “Lord, we do not know where You are going, how do we know the way?” 6 Jesus *said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.

 

John 3:16 "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."

 

John 1:12 Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— 13children born not of natural descent,[c] nor of human decision or a husband's will, but born of God.

 

Other parts of the NT talk about non-believers burning in hell, and if you don't believe those parts, why believe any parts?

 

I believe those parts fully but I interpret them differently.

 

Jesus in the gospels defined goodness as one that does good. If you follow Jesus you simply have a good heart, most of the time, you try. When you come to Jesus and follow Jesus, you are

following the voice of your conscience. To believe in Jesus is to believe in his message of doing good. It is not a religion. Jesus wasn't a religion. It was a religon of basic morality that was supposed to

come about but it has been a source used to control others and extract money from them.

When you "believe in Him" or "believe in his name"..it is not about Jesus. He said it wasn't about him either. It was about His Father who is the God of all Good. Belief in armaic also meant to believe as well as act.

As in act well, which is what has been mistranslated and mistaught. We see Jesus said to act well, but he did not say you are too dominate the world, but overcome in yourself, Jesus never had a religion. Read in the 4 gospels. He told people to stop being angry with others, to not steal, to wait for marriage and a deep love with your spouse, to be responsible, to help others. These aren't outer accomplishments of dominance.

The churches have turned it into "we are saved by faith by grace and not of works" without understanding those words, they simply repeat that phrase and they don't know what it means from the heart.

Faith by grace is in all hearts, it is your conscience. It is not your accomplishments, or following the Jewish law, or your popularity, or status in the world. When it says you are not saved by works, so you

can't boast it means those outer works You are saved by your intention and effort. Nonreligious people and athiests and agnostics all have a conscience. This is kindergarten level understanding that they twist.

When we were in elementary school, we all found out quick that those that are popular and are very accomplished are not always good or nice, they can be mean, and seek to bully others. Its good to have acccomplishments

but your heart comes first.

 

In 3 of the 4 gospels you see "if anyone says a word against the Son of Man he will be forgiven, but if you say a word against the holy spirit you will not be forgiven". Son of Man is Jesus. So you can not understand

Jesus because it was represented wrong, but you are still judged by your concience.

 

At the end of Revelation, you see that people are going to be judged by their works. That is everyone who believes in the message of Jesus without even knowing Jesus.

[Noggy]

 

I believe those parts fully but I interpret them differently.

 

Jesus in the gospels defined goodness as one that does good. If you follow Jesus you simply have a good heart, most of the time, you try. When you come to Jesus and follow Jesus, you are

following the voice of your conscience. To believe in Jesus is to believe in his message of doing good. It is not a religion. Jesus wasn't a religion. It was a religon of basic morality that was supposed to

come about but it has been a source used to control others and extract money from them.

When you "believe in Him" or "believe in his name"..it is not about Jesus. He said it wasn't about him either. It was about His Father who is the God of all Good. Belief in armaic also meant to believe as well as act.

As in act well, which is what has been mistranslated and mistaught. We see Jesus said to act well, but he did not say you are too dominate the world, but overcome in yourself, Jesus never had a religion. Read in the 4 gospels. He told people to stop being angry with others, to not steal, to wait for marriage and a deep love with your spouse, to be responsible, to help others. These aren't outer accomplishments of dominance.

The churches have turned it into "we are saved by faith by grace and not of works" without understanding those words, they simply repeat that phrase and they don't know what it means from the heart.

Faith by grace is in all hearts, it is your conscience. It is not your accomplishments, or following the Jewish law, or your popularity, or status in the world. When it says you are not saved by works, so you

can't boast it means those outer works You are saved by your intention and effort. Nonreligious people and athiests and agnostics all have a conscience. This is kindergarten level understanding that they twist.

When we were in elementary school, we all found out quick that those that are popular and are very accomplished are not always good or nice, they can be mean, and seek to bully others. Its good to have acccomplishments

but your heart comes first.

 

In 3 of the 4 gospels you see "if anyone says a word against the Son of Man he will be forgiven, but if you say a word against the holy spirit you will not be forgiven". Son of Man is Jesus. So you can not understand

Jesus because it was represented wrong, but you are still judged by your concience.

 

At the end of Revelation, you see that people are going to be judged by their works. That is everyone who believes in the message of Jesus without even knowing Jesus.

 

I see what you did thar! And out of respect for this forum I won't point anything out from your post. I will just ask you to look into the history of the gospels. How they were written. I will then ask you to look into the OT prophecies of the messiah, does jesus fulfill them? I then ask you to look at the OT, see if it actually happened, see what kind of God is in the bible.

 

This IS the spirituality forum, but this is still ex-christian.net, you appear to just be a christian that is unhappy with what the church says so you are interpreting the bible your own way. Which is fine, but I would feel like I am cheating you by not telling you to look into the factual aspects of your faith.

[SummerMoon]

I believe those parts fully but I interpret them differently.

 

Jesus in the gospels defined goodness as one that does good. If you follow Jesus you simply have a good heart, most of the time, you try. When you come to Jesus and follow Jesus, you are

following the voice of your conscience. To believe in Jesus is to believe in his message of doing good. It is not a religion. Jesus wasn't a religion. It was a religon of basic morality that was supposed to

come about but it has been a source used to control others and extract money from them.

When you "believe in Him" or "believe in his name"..it is not about Jesus. He said it wasn't about him either. It was about His Father who is the God of all Good. Belief in armaic also meant to believe as well as act.

As in act well, which is what has been mistranslated and mistaught. We see Jesus said to act well, but he did not say you are too dominate the world, but overcome in yourself, Jesus never had a religion. Read in the 4 gospels. He told people to stop being angry with others, to not steal, to wait for marriage and a deep love with your spouse, to be responsible, to help others. These aren't outer accomplishments of dominance.

The churches have turned it into "we are saved by faith by grace and not of works" without understanding those words, they simply repeat that phrase and they don't know what it means from the heart.

Faith by grace is in all hearts, it is your conscience. It is not your accomplishments, or following the Jewish law, or your popularity, or status in the world. When it says you are not saved by works, so you

can't boast it means those outer works You are saved by your intention and effort. Nonreligious people and athiests and agnostics all have a conscience. This is kindergarten level understanding that they twist.

When we were in elementary school, we all found out quick that those that are popular and are very accomplished are not always good or nice, they can be mean, and seek to bully others. Its good to have acccomplishments

but your heart comes first.

 

In 3 of the 4 gospels you see "if anyone says a word against the Son of Man he will be forgiven, but if you say a word against the holy spirit you will not be forgiven". Son of Man is Jesus. So you can not understand

Jesus because it was represented wrong, but you are still judged by your concience.

 

At the end of Revelation, you see that people are going to be judged by their works. That is everyone who believes in the message of Jesus without even knowing Jesus.

 

I see what you did thar! And out of respect for this forum I won't point anything out from your post. I will just ask you to look into the history of the gospels. How they were written. I will then ask you to look into the OT prophecies of the messiah, does jesus fulfill them? I then ask you to look at the OT, see if it actually happened, see what kind of God is in the bible.

 

This IS the spirituality forum, but this is still ex-christian.net, you appear to just be a christian that is unhappy with what the church says so you are interpreting the bible your own way. Which is fine, but I would feel like I am cheating you by not telling you to look into the factual aspects of your faith.

 

Yes, I found out I am a christian that has been disgusted with the church. I have talked to a couple of people friends at the church I go , the main one, too and told my concerns with doctrine. They said that I still fit in with the beliefs of the church. But I know I do not fit in some other churches. It seems again and again that I keep going back to that it is the church type that really matters. I don't fault people for leaving a church or christianity. It doesn't mean they lose their morals.

 

I believe in the words of Jesus mostly. I am allowed to question any other part of the bible for I was not there. I can learn from it. The church is a place of community and friendship. Its not a place to argue. When it becomes that, ti ruins the whole reason to go. I really have seen others very hurt by the church as well and multiple times. I can completely understand wanting to stay away from that. It really breaks my heart.

 

It is surprising and comforting to know that all ministers and pastors talk abuot how the church is split up into many factions in a way that they really dislike. Many people in the church know that as a whole, there's some confusion, on what to agree, and they don't like it. I am not going to urge anyone to go to any place they don't feel they are respected. When you are disrespected, you sense that they aren't looking out for you.

 

I see a lot of posts here about people who miss the community that church has and I do too. But its more than that, having a belief in God is part of selfesteem for many people. I just know I am certainly not the

same person I was before when I was a christian. When I was though, I still wasn't like them.

 

There's a lot of people in the world with anxiety disorders. I think next to depression it is up there in being of the same magnitude of an emotional concern or problem to some degree. These people are especially on my heart. I

don't know honestly if the church can help them or not. It depends where they go. I know that having faith is what I need to live and that is what is most important is our inner sense of that. Church is secondary outgrowth of that. Many people are pressured to put the church first though and their thinking next. This is not their fault.

 

I don't know what to say here. I feel bad for every person here. I am not going to exacerbate or triviialize what anyone has been through or dump scriputure on them. But I probably will go back to the church permanently.

I have been on the fence for a long time. Last year I met a number of people that did not show any kind of care for anyone but themselves, yet they are not the only ones. I met other people that agreed with me they were out of line who were also christians. I simply have not pursued any relationship with these people.

 

The hardest thing for me to accept has been that I have to screen people in the church like I have to do with everyone else. If you go from a young age, you're told this is your family kind of and you kind of just feel you need to accept everyone and try to get along with them. I would feel burdened by the disrespectful rude treatment of others and play it over in my head. But I'd done the same with people at work, school, other places and then I would feel as if that was the only kind of people in the church that is that way. That is not true. I'd not even have a chance to find good people and its like I'd bump into the ones that, really, I find out years later, other people have problems with. The only people that are tolerated when they are rude is the prophets, the rich, those with a testimony of drugs, prostitution and criminal activity in the past. The church doesn't want to lose these people for they all hold value for bringing others in and other reasons that are obvious. They are not the only ones though in the church. So many people ruin it for others. There are good prophets and rich people too however etc etc.

 

I do believe in the basics of the Bible. I think there's a lot more to the garden of eden story. I mean why wouldn't there be right? lol.

 

I hope all of you find your way as I hope I find my way. Life sure is confusing at times. God is everywhere, and you don't have to go to church if you don't wish, or hold to doctrines you don't wish too. You are free to believe as you want to. I think its just as much a mark of faith to question things. I have a lot of feeling for those that have been hurt and wounded in any way. The church I have been going to prays for people after the service adn I have not seen anyone embarrassed or singled out. I have seen this in other churches though. I have gone to several churches in a row where they were all like that. I got really mad!

 

I mentally come down harder on Christians than nonchristians for the nonchristian is not trying to control anyone's thinking. I dislike seeing someone degrade another personally in any way. Well that should never be the case! I have called out other christians on their behavior before. Unlike some others, I do not think anyone is bad for not going to church or not being a christian. I don't think you are good for those things either. I wish that was common knowledge! and belief. I do know in the bible it says in the new testament that there will come a time when people will not worship on this mountain or that one but in "sprit and truth". That does not refer to a church which is supposed to represent the mountain. It also says that there will be a time when worshippers seek to honor God in mind and heart naturally. I just believe this and I just respect everyone. I wish to try anyway.

 

I think all of you have valid points to feel as you do. I don't seem to fit into well into other groups though and I want to wisely handle going back. I made the mistake of believing that I shouldn't screen people in church like other places. I would go to other places and have my guard up but not at church. Yet if I did that in other places, it would be the same result, far worse. I think people have to earn our trust and respect in all cases.

[SummerMoon]

I said in another thread that my belief is God is not compatible with Christianity, but it is. It just isn't compatible with some churches version of it.

I know that I welcome friends of different belief systems all the same though.