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Discerning
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Maybe us heathen are just too optimistic :shrug:

 

To be a xian, there has to be some sense of doom and gloom as that is what the "faith" essentially thrives on.

Actually, being a Xtian is a combination of realism and hope: recognition of man's plight, while at the same time having confidence in The Coming Age of Perfection. Optimism, if not grounded in realism (aka Truth), at best is nothing more than Pollyannaism, and at worst breeds ghastly dystopias like those of the Redshirts and the Brownshirts, aka Lord-of-the-Flies-ism.

 

Everyone creates their own meaning. You just like to comfort yourself by saying it was created by god in a book.

Believe it or not, I don't find a lot of what He communicated in His book to be a comfort at all: that we are born into sin; that He designed us for perfection, but we fail miserably; that there is a Lake of Fire; that we can't take revenge; that we need to deny our fallen nature every day, instead walking according to His design (I hate not being able to eat a pint of Ben & Jerry's every single day! I hate having to bite my tongue so much! :P). I did not become a believer to find some sort of Celestial Security Blanket.

 

As for "everyone creating their own meaning," I doubt we can generalize. If I created my own meaning, I'd not believe the above-mentioned doctrines: I'd cherry-pick what suits me best, like, that "I'm a good person" (I did in fact believe that before I became a believer, since on the outside, I didn't practice anything majorly sinful: no fornication, cussing, boozing, drugs, lying, cheating, etc. Once I understood that sin isn't just about the "gross" sins, that it's about God's perfect standard, then I had to face the fact that I didn't qualify as a "good" person, that no human being does. And that insight, btw, came 5 months before I came to Christ, 5 months before I started reading the Bible. It hit me in the solar-plexus; it was in no way an insight I relished.)

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Yeah, it does sound like you don't create your own meaning. You found a prepackaged deal to which to defer.

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Discerning, nothing you are sharing here is new to us. If you have to believe you are an asshole to exist, be my guest. We certainly do not need you waffles. We do thank you however of reminding us of why we left.:Hmm:

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He designed us for perfection, but we fail miserably;

 

If General Motors designs a car and that car does not live up to what it was designed to do, then GM had a faulty design. Faulty design = faulty designer. It seems that the god of the bible is a faulty designer and, like GM who designs a faulty car, the designer is at fault not that which it designed.

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This thread should go to the Lion's Den. Nothing but a xian testimony with some preaching.

 

 

 

 

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If I created my own meaning, I'd not believe the above-mentioned doctrines: I'd cherry-pick what suits me best...

But you DID cherry-pick. Do you speak in tongues? Handle snakes? Stone unruly children? Drink actual blood at Communion? Eat actual flesh? Keep silent in the church? Give your possessions to the poor? Have you healed anyone lately? Do you think slavery is okay? Ever kill a witch or homosexual?

 

You most certainly did create your own meaning, as does everyone else.

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If I created my own meaning, I'd not believe the above-mentioned doctrines: I'd cherry-pick what suits me best...

But you DID cherry-pick. Do you speak in tongues? Handle snakes? Stone unruly children? Drink actual blood at Communion? Eat actual flesh? Keep silent in the church? Give your possessions to the poor? Have you healed anyone lately? Do you think slavery is okay? Ever kill a witch or homosexual?

 

You most certainly did create your own meaning, as does everyone else.

 

Jeff Daumer did most of these. I'm guessing he is the true xian here and the rest of us are going to hell.

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If General Motors designs a car and that car does not live up to what it was designed to do, then GM had a faulty design. Faulty design = faulty designer. It seems that the god of the bible is a faulty designer and, like GM who designs a faulty car, the designer is at fault not that which it designed.

 

Yes, but Christians gave God a government bailout GONZ9729CustomImage1539775.gif

 

It's interesting how people like Discerning here, come on and spout the usual platitudes as if we haven't heard it before and in a manner that suggests they think it has some deep spiritual connotation.

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It's interesting how people like Discerning here, come on and spout the usual platitudes as if we haven't heard it before and in a manner that suggests they think it has some deep spiritual connotation.

 

Isn't the definition of insanity doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results?GONZ9729CustomImage1539775.gif

 

 

 

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@Discerning: God never wrote anything. Those who wish to be ruled by a mythological tyrant wrote scriptures that calls for the death of those who do not believe their rantings. And, Christians continue to claim to this day that these Bronze Aged marvels of wit and wisdom are suitable for us poor neo-neanderthals of the 21st Century. Many of us escaped the cult of the cross and unfortunately, you have not. In my mind, I don't care if you haven't left Christianity. I do care when you come here and preach to us like you have authority and we're supposed to believe the crap you type into a dialog box. If you were not a cherry picker, you would be Catholic.

 

Sin does not exist, man never fell from grace (prove the talking snake story is true first, then preach) and humanity requires no redeeming by any god of any kind.

 

I really do think this post belongs in the Lion's Den where it can receive all the love and nurturing it so righteously deserves.

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Maybe us heathen are just too optimistic :shrug:

 

To be a xian, there has to be some sense of doom and gloom as that is what the "faith" essentially thrives on.

Actually, being a Xtian is a combination of realism and hope: recognition of man's plight, while at the same time having confidence in The Coming Age of Perfection. Optimism, if not grounded in realism (aka Truth), at best is nothing more than Pollyannaism, and at worst breeds ghastly dystopias like those of the Redshirts and the Brownshirts, aka Lord-of-the-Flies-ism.

 

That coming age of perfection is not realism. It's mythology. If any belief system has ever bred a dystopia it's been Christianity. People were murdered, exiled, taxed and excluded from society just so the "orthodox" church could be established and people have been dying ever since then due to the Christian system. It's been no less dystopic (off and on) than the Brownshirts and the Red Shirts.

 

Everyone creates their own meaning. You just like to comfort yourself by saying it was created by god in a book.

Believe it or not, I don't find a lot of what He communicated in His book to be a comfort at all: that we are born into sin; that He designed us for perfection, but we fail miserably; that there is a Lake of Fire; that we can't take revenge; that we need to deny our fallen nature every day, instead walking according to His design (I hate not being able to eat a pint of Ben & Jerry's every single day! I hate having to bite my tongue so much! :P). I did not become a believer to find some sort of Celestial Security Blanket.

 

As for "everyone creating their own meaning," I doubt we can generalize. If I created my own meaning, I'd not believe the above-mentioned doctrines: I'd cherry-pick what suits me best, like, that "I'm a good person" (I did in fact believe that before I became a believer, since on the outside, I didn't practice anything majorly sinful: no fornication, cussing, boozing, drugs, lying, cheating, etc. Once I understood that sin isn't just about the "gross" sins, that it's about God's perfect standard, then I had to face the fact that I didn't qualify as a "good" person, that no human being does. And that insight, btw, came 5 months before I came to Christ, 5 months before I started reading the Bible. It hit me in the solar-plexus; it was in no way an insight I relished.)

 

And none of those insights demonstrates that your belief system is any more suited to ground a life or a society upon than any other. You chose the one that suited you for some reason. Eventually you're going to have to show us this "objective meaning" or whatever you choose to call it.

 

I suspect you won't , though. It's easier to criticize and compare people's viewpoints to "brown shirts" and "red shirts" than it is to demonstrate that objective morality/meaning/whatever you choose to call it today actually exists other than in people's imaginations.

 

None of what you say is literally spelled out in the bible. You have adopted, adapted and integrated a mass of doctrines from your surrounding cultural milleu and merely asserted they are "real." Once again, you are creating your own meaning. Why you chose to adopt this meaning - the motivations - are strictly your own. But you have presented no reason to conclude otherwise.

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Actually, being a Xtian is a combination of realism and hope: recognition of man's plight, while at the same time having confidence in The Coming Age of Perfection. Optimism, if not grounded in realism (aka Truth), at best is nothing more than Pollyannaism, and at worst breeds ghastly dystopias like those of the Redshirts and the Brownshirts, aka Lord-of-the-Flies-ism.

So where are the miracles? Were is your creator? Show us his awesome power, or your "realism (aka Truth)" is nothing but words, ideas, thoughts, hopes, and dreams.

 

Believe it or not, I don't find a lot of what He communicated in His book to be a comfort at all: that we are born into sin; that He designed us for perfection, but we fail miserably; that there is a Lake of Fire; that we can't take revenge; that we need to deny our fallen nature every day, instead walking according to His design (I hate not being able to eat a pint of Ben & Jerry's every single day! I hate having to bite my tongue so much! :P). I did not become a believer to find some sort of Celestial Security Blanket.

So you hate the message that you are "saved" from all those ills? That doesn't give you comfort either? Of course it does. That's why you believe. You believe in this religion just because the "dangers" and "ills" it presents are fixed in the same story. It creates the market for a product we really don't need. The market is created by a false sense of need or "hole" that you need to fill. The story creates the idea of "sin" and then gives you the solution, the snake oil, to fix the made-up sickness.

 

As for "everyone creating their own meaning," I doubt we can generalize. If I created my own meaning, I'd not believe the above-mentioned doctrines: I'd cherry-pick what suits me best, like, that "I'm a good person" (I did in fact believe that before I became a believer, since on the outside, I didn't practice anything majorly sinful: no fornication, cussing, boozing, drugs, lying, cheating, etc. Once I understood that sin isn't just about the "gross" sins, that it's about God's perfect standard, then I had to face the fact that I didn't qualify as a "good" person, that no human being does. And that insight, btw, came 5 months before I came to Christ, 5 months before I started reading the Bible. It hit me in the solar-plexus; it was in no way an insight I relished.)

You DO cherry-pick the Bible. You just haven't realized it yet. You're still in denial about how you pick to interpret the Bible YOUR way, and not Fred Phelp's way or Doc Robert Price's way.

 

YOUR interpretation of the Bible and Christianity is a reflection of who YOU are, not who God is.

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Some people create meaning with a heavy off-the-rack component.

 

Great way to express it!

 

On a less witty note, I guess it might be accurate to say that one does more integrating than creating when it comes to adopting a worldview and system of morality.

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