paul34 Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul34 Posted July 21, 2011 Author Share Posted July 21, 2011 ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue elephant Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 You're right. There really is no winning with these guys. And the more you enter in to these debates, the more angry and frustrated you will become. Life is too short to debate with people who have no intention of chnging their mind. Their only purpose in debating is to change your mind. Go and do something that is fun - or else do something that imporves the quality of your life!!@ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Xtech Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 Unfriend. Facebook is full of blowhards and proselytizers. It is creeper land. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted July 21, 2011 Super Moderator Share Posted July 21, 2011 Is there anything to be gained by arguing with religious individuals in this manner? I'm thinking there isn't. I tend to agree. Unless someone is seriously questioning their own faith, I don't go into to any of it. Faith has no place in a logical argument, and it always comes down to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Margee Posted July 21, 2011 Moderator Share Posted July 21, 2011 I will not push the matter at all with religion - but if they push me...... My simple response will be, ''I am a 'non believer' right now....... I just don't see the evidence for god.'' I just can't fight with the entrenched belief systems anymore. I was once there....... and NO ONE could convince me......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul34 Posted July 21, 2011 Author Share Posted July 21, 2011 ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dB-Paradox Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 I think you actually do win when you don't engage in debate. It really pisses them off when you simply not and casually say "uh huh". Like a husband to a wife, as he's looking off into space! (I'm not saying I have any experience! "Yes dear....Uh huh") Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oddbird1963 Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 I think I would probably respond with something like "Perhaps you need to do whatever penance or self punishment your particular subset of your religion recommends for being judgmental. Perhaps the people you speak of so sweepingly and superficially do hard work prescribed by their own set of values and priorities. Does your religion provide any incentive for becoming empathetic and understanding with people?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul34 Posted July 21, 2011 Author Share Posted July 21, 2011 .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hereticzero Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 A couple of times I was invited for a debate and replied, 'no, I've heard it all a thousand times and I'm at the age I don't really give a shit what christians have to say.' 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike D Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 I think the occasional debate is good in the beginning to strengthen your critical thinking skills or to strengthen your position, but in my experience inevitably religionists end up arguing semantic differences in words or making silly demands ("prove logic exists!!11!!!1"), and nothing really gets accomplished. It ends up being rather pointless.... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lethallunacy Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 In my experience, arguments with (closedminded, fundamentalist) religious people go one of two ways. Either the religious individual eventually is forced into a corner, and reverts to name-calling and the appeal to force/tradition/faith/"well that's just my opinion. Or the religious individual attempts to redefine key religious terms to the point where they become meaningless in any contemporary context. Laymen tend to fall into the former category, while apologists tend to divert to the latter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oddbird1963 Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 I think I would probably respond with something like "Perhaps you need to do whatever penance or self punishment your particular subset of your religion recommends for being judgmental. Perhaps the people you speak of so sweepingly and superficially do hard work prescribed by their own set of values and priorities. Does your religion provide any incentive for becoming empathetic and understanding with people?" Unbelievers choose to rebel against God, even though they know He exists, because they want to live in sin. To be "empathetic" to them as you, a "rationalist" suggest, would be to fall for the temptations of Satan. You think you are so smart and smug with your "logic" and "science." The only TRUTH is GOD. . . . that is what I would have said to you many years ago, and what these facebook religious people (whether muslim/jew/xtian) would say if pushed to that point. Notice how I pretty much completely blew off your question. What can one even do against such unreasonableness? Point well taken, Paul34. I look at it as a game of percentages. Most will respond the way you describe. It will bounce off of them like a rubber ball. Some, however, will receive a small "chip" in their wall of protection. They may actually think about it for a second, then shrug it off. Maybe another series of verbal or written interactions with non-Christians will wear at their foundation until that wall comes tumbling down. I never think of myself as being "the one" that will provide the argument that will bring the deluded believer into the light of freethinking. I just think if I respond to people with what I think and other ex-c's and non-c's do the same, it will make a difference. I don't really want Christians to become non-Christians necessarily. I just don't want the binary either/or , good vs evil, science hating, text-based literalism of fundamentalism to maintain it's death grip on the minds of so many people. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul34 Posted July 22, 2011 Author Share Posted July 22, 2011 ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oddbird1963 Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 Yea, I understand your point oddball. Also, I hope you didn't think I was attacking you in any way. I wasn't! =) I also wonder whether my arguments might have at least a tiny effect. I agree with what you said. Perhaps what I need to learn is to pick my battles. No, Paul. I felt in no way attacked. I enjoyed the opportunity to learn your views on things. The biggest mystery in life seems to be "Do I make a difference?" We may never fully know the effect we have on people in this life. It would be nice to know, but we never really will - except for those lucky few who have people tell them, "You really helped me when you said. . ." or "Your gift meant so much to me . . ." Maybe that's why people imagined a god and a heaven. Even though there is "judgement," they at least get to project their desire to know that the good they do matters onto the universal catch-all of human dreams and hopes called "god." 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Babylonian Dream Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 I used to debate them because I had nothing better to do, too much time on my hands. Plus, it got rid of some of the frustrations living with fundie family, without stepping on their heels. Now that I'm on my own, I just don't have time for religion, let alone debating it. I've got better, more important things to do. Ultimately, I think that debating it won't convince people right away. The questions will linger in their heads, and for some, it will rest in their heads in waiting. When the time is right, the house of cards (ie religion) will fall for some, when the weight of faith can't be held up with the knowledge and questions they accumulated over time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnceConvinced Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 I think it is worth the effort. I am one of those Christians that were forced to examine some of my own beliefs after debate with atheists. For me, I was a Christian living in a Christian bubble that had never really had anyone argue against my beliefs. I rubbed shoulders with fellow Christians most of the time and in New Zealand most people tend to accept people and their beliefs, even if they don't agree with them. As a Christian, when I was finally faced with challenges, I defended my faith to the hilt. I never gave an inch. I walked away with the skeptics, no doubt, remaining frustrated, thinking they achieved nothing. But a year later I was an ex-Christian. I sincerely believe, based on my own experiences that we skeptics will say things to Christians that will niggle away at them long after - planting the seeds of doubt as it were. These things will continue to come back and sooner or later the Christian will have to realise that we've made valid points. Once they get to that point, then they have to ask the question "If I was wrong about that, what else am I wrong about?" Like me when I was a Christian, they are too proud to admit they are wrong. They'll run away with their tails between their legs and then after some long soul searching will turn up on another site a few years later as an ex-Christian. Maybe not all of them, but some, I'm sure. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
excalvinist Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 Depends on what kind of mood I am in, and how much time I have at the moment. I love crushing their weak ass arguments into the ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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