Rockalocka Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 I know this has been addressed so many times here, but really, how can you completely debunk the end times. I know OvercameFaith has a giant topic, but I want some answers from others. I'm desperate. Someone give me a reason why we aren't in the end times and why Revelation is not a viable book of prophecy. I want to see what you guys really think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agnosticator Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 How can anyone completely debunk Revelation and the End Times? What about all the other non-christian end times scenarios that people conjure up? Where is the evidence these future fantasies are based on? How can anyone debunk fantasy? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Margee Posted July 30, 2011 Moderator Share Posted July 30, 2011 I know this has been addressed so many times here, but really, how can you completely debunk the end times. I know OvercameFaith has a giant topic, but I want some answers from others. I'm desperate. Someone give me a reason why we aren't in the end times and why Revelation is not a viable book of prophecy. I want to see what you guys really think. Rock, I understand that you probably want some real quick answers to this - but your best bet is to start to read 'Overcame Faith's' whole thread, slowly. Take your time. He has a lot of knowledge on the subject. He put so much time in helping others with this issue. I would really recommend that you start there. It's a really good thread on the last days and will help you understand the issue much better. Revelation is a very complicated book. Once you understand - your fears will start to dissipate. good luck my friend.... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 Different end time scenarios in different religions and beliefs: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/End_time Which one is the true one? Or is anyone of them true? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted July 30, 2011 Super Moderator Share Posted July 30, 2011 I'm afraid you will not accept any more proof given because something in you makes you want to believe it. Besides, how are we to absolutely prove that an untestable assertion is not true? How about you give me proof that leprechauns don't exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overcame Faith Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 Read the very first paragraph of Revelation very carefully. 1 The revelation from Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John, 2 who testifies to everything he saw—that is, the word of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ. 3 Blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear it and take to heart what is written in it, because the time is near. Revelation 1:1-3 What do the words I have highlighted mean? Take your first cue from the author and not from modern day fear mongers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oddbird1963 Posted July 31, 2011 Share Posted July 31, 2011 I know this has been addressed so many times here, but really, how can you completely debunk the end times. I know OvercameFaith has a giant topic, but I want some answers from others. I'm desperate. Someone give me a reason why we aren't in the end times and why Revelation is not a viable book of prophecy. I want to see what you guys really think. Rockalokca, That's a good questions, but which end times are you talking about? The topic is very broad and open ended. What makes you convinced we are in some sort of end times? If you read the book without any prior indoctrination by religionists, do you think you would even look at it as a prophecy applicable to our times? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwc Posted July 31, 2011 Share Posted July 31, 2011 Someone give me a reason why we aren't in the end times and why Revelation is not a viable book of prophecy. I want to see what you guys really think. Why don't you try explaining why we are in the end times? This way we can see what you think. And remember it's supposed to be a nice, unified, bit of prophecy so don't just cherry-pick a couple of things and from unrelated passages that you think might be happening. If the end times are playing out as the book says you should be able to start at the beginning and lead us step-by-step from when the "end" started until "present" times in the text (whenever you think that is). mwc 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Truth Seeker Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 Rock, Jesus thought the end times were coming while some of his apostles still lived and that didn't come true. The surviving apostles thought they were in the end times and that didn't happen. At least every hundered years or so since Christ there has been someone who thinks the end times are coming and that has not happened either. These predictions have continued until the present day. Have they happened? No. How many times does it take one to understand that no one knows when the end of time is going to happen. Where is your evidence that points to the end times? The Book of Revelation is so hopelessly mixed up no one can really understand it. However it was mostly written against the Romans and the city of Rome who John called the "Whore of Babylon". He wrote mostly about the end times of the Romans when God would return to take them down and restore his kingdom. That didn't happen either. Why waste your time worrying about something that may never happen and for sure no human knows about. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noggy Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 PROVE TO ME THAT L RON HUBBARD WASNT GOD. BECAUSE IF HE IS IM GOING TO BURN FOREVER. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kris Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 How many times does it take one to understand that no one knows when the end of time is going to happen. Where is your evidence that points to the end times? I think that Rockalocka's fear is the same as a lot of us who have come out of churches that push the endtimes down our throat-- for us, we have been preached at over and over how all of the "signs" are right in front of our faces-- and are constantly being assaulted with "evidence". Rockalocka is only 15, so when she hears things like this from her parents and her church, she is likely scared, thinking that what she is being told is fact. I am not sure exactly what her church beliefs are, but her endtime fears likely have stemmed from the "Left Behind" teachings, and other such teachings-- on the whole, these can appear to be very convincing and seem like evidence of endtime events. If you look at technology trends, you could see how the events in a book like that might be possible-- but are they literally correct? Not likely!! I can sympathize with Rockalocka because I was once a 15 year old with the exact same fears that she has-- and it sucked!! I had to live through the "Hal Lindsay" days-- what a treat that was!! I worried about getting married, having kids, and being able to just live my life. I ended up hating religion because of the fear that it caused me to have-- still do!! The nice thing is that I have been married 25 years, have two beautiful kids who are almost grown up, and I am still here. Do I still get scared about the endtimes sometimes-- yes, but only because I get sucked into the mindset of my past that takes all reason and throws it out the window. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlphaToOmega Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 Read the very first paragraph of Revelation very carefully. 1 The revelation from Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John, 2 who testifies to everything he saw—that is, the word of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ. 3 Blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear it and take to heart what is written in it, because the time is near. Revelation 1:1-3 What do the words I have highlighted mean? Take your first cue from the author and not from modern day fear mongers. Proof that Jesus wore a wrist watch! Glory! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DesertBob Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 I know this has been addressed so many times here, but really, how can you completely debunk the end times. I know OvercameFaith has a giant topic, but I want some answers from others. I'm desperate. Someone give me a reason why we aren't in the end times and why Revelation is not a viable book of prophecy. I want to see what you guys really think. Quite apart from religion, if you look at just the dystopian movies and books produced in the past half century or so, you can see that the topic of apocalyptic disaster is compelling for people. In the 1950's and probably into the 1970's, most such fiction was based on atomic war / nuclear fallout. More recently it's been biological experiments or nanotech gone wild, or the Mayan predictions for cataclysmic events in 2012; in other words, at any given time they tend to be about what people worry about the most that might threaten their security and safety and comfort. As yourself why people keep returning to these themes and you come to the conclusion that these stories are in part projections of our own fears and in part ways to blow off steam about said projections. Stephen King, the horror writer, says that his job is to put his characters in such horrible situations that your own tribulations don't look so bad and insurmountable in comparison. "I have that shitty job and this horrible monster-in-law but at least I don't have sucking horrors from another dimension eating my flesh". Also, it's not just about anxiety about real life, but also anxiety about our own mortality. Ultimately we fear flesh eating monsters because we fear flesh eating worms. All religion does is harness this fascination to its own ends. Not just regarding end times but regarding Satan, the perennial bogeyman and his minions and their impact on daily life. The difference is that rather than providing release that reading a good horror novel or visiting an amusement park roller coaster will provide, it actually takes the object of its fear seriously (or tries to get you to do so, at any rate) and then the only antidote available is something you're dependent on that belief system for (absolution, protection, forgiveness, etc). Who benefits from all this end times talk? The people who run the churches and live off the money and power it provides them. Certainly not you or me. As OvercameFaith pointed out, the end of days has been "just at the door" for two millenia now. That's quite a stretch when defining the word "imminent". This tells me two things: the predictions aren't true, and the predictions are a gold mine for people who want to control other people. Get away from this stuff and occupy your mind with other things until it stops dominating your thoughts. You have to deprogram yourself. Once you do it will completely lose its hold over you. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlerman Posted August 3, 2011 Share Posted August 3, 2011 Someone give me a reason why we aren't in the end times and why Revelation is not a viable book of prophecy. I want to see what you guys really think. I could give you a thousand rational reasons, but that's not the real question. We live in our own last days, every day we live. We face our own death, every moment. Every bit of news we hear. All the accidents, the murders, the wars, the disease. What you have is fear. And those propagandists, those that would sell you their religious medicines at the end of fear are more terrified than you. They would have you buy their 'salvation' to help them salve over their own terror of their own mortality by having you join their club of belief. Cut straight to the heart of it all and face you own fear and disarm it. Live now. You are free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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