Two Things That Have Been Bothering Me

[musicpoetry]

Yesterday at work, out of nowhere my supervisor tells me the only people who believe the Bible is sexist are lesbians and feminists. He goes on to say in the Adam and Eve story both Adam and Eve were punished equally; one works hard the and other receives pain. Then he goes on for an hour describing verses that are not sexist. Like the resurrection. "Women were the people giving out the the news of the resurrection. Back then women didn't have a voice. Jesus talked to a prostitute. Back then it was unimaginable." And he went on and on. I'm annoyed that I had to listen to this for an hour and mad at myself for not being able to argue my viewpoint. I can't even state it here because I feel like I have to read up on everything again just so I am not saying anything inaccurate. I always feel like I don't know anything well enough to argue back.

 

Another thing that bothers me: Christian facebook statuses. For example, "THE CHURCH is my COLLEGE, HEAVEN is my UNIVERSITY, JESUS is my PRINCIPAL, THE HOLY SPIRIT is my TEACHER, ANGELS are my CLASS MATES, THE BIBLE is my STUDY BOOK, TRIAL & TEMPTATION are my EXAMS, WINNING SOULS are my ASSIGNMENTS, PRAYER is my ATTENDANCE, CROWN OF LIFE is my DEGREE, AND PRAISE & WORSHIP is my MOTTO. Enroll today there is room for all and tuition is FREE!!"

 

 

Really???? What bothers me is that this comes from someone who attends an IVY League school. I got my MA there and I felt like I grew as a person. Studying there taught me how to reflect on myself and how to use constructive criticism to improve myself. So what if tuition isn't free? I value my education from there and what it taught me about myself. It feels like he's saying the education he's paying for doesn't count in life.

Don't think anyone will read this, but now that I've written I feel a little better.

[Overcame Faith]

You are wrong about no one reading what you wrote. I read it and enjoyed it. I especially enjoyed your second paragraph because I had never read anything like that before. Though it's religious nonsense, I must admit it is fairly creative.

 

As for arguing back, don't worry about it. The important thing is that you understand what you deem important to understand. If the issue of sexism in the bible is something that is important to you to understand, then look into it. You have a masters degree from an ivy league school so you obviously know how to use your mind. To me, all you need is this one passage from the New Testament to make your point:

 

22 Wives, submit yourselves to your own husbands as you do to the Lord. 23 For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. 24 Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.

 

Ephesians 5:22-24.

 

Some Christian men just love those verses for obvious reasons.

[ireckinso]

That's pretty unproffesional of a supervisor to talk about religion in that way. (unless you work for a religeous organization). Myself, as a member of management have to watch speaking to my employees in that manner for fear of offending someone.

[musicpoetry]

You are wrong about no one reading what you wrote. I read it and enjoyed it. I especially enjoyed your second paragraph because I had never read anything like that before. Though it's religious nonsense, I must admit it is fairly creative.

 

As for arguing back, don't worry about it. The important thing is that you understand what you deem important to understand. If the issue of sexism in the bible is something that is important to you to understand, then look into it. You have a masters degree from an ivy league school so you obviously know how to use your mind. To me, all you need is this one passage from the New Testament to make your point:

 

22 Wives, submit yourselves to your own husbands as you do to the Lord. 23 For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. 24 Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.

 

Ephesians 5:22-24.

 

Some Christian men just love those verses for obvious reasons.

 

Thank you Overcame Faith! I know these verses because I've read them over and over. I don't know why I forget!

[musicpoetry]

As somebody who can argue on the spot without any problems, I can say one thing: it doesn't make you popular.

 

That being said, I share your feelings on how frustrating people like this can be.

 

Thank you Interested. Instead of arguing I just end up listening to what people have to say. I just don't like it when they ask if I agree or not. I feel pressured to give them an answer. And I think you're right about arguing though. Don't want to be on bad terms with my supervisor.

[musicpoetry]

That's pretty unproffesional of a supervisor to talk about religion in that way. (unless you work for a religeous organization). Myself, as a member of management have to watch speaking to my employees in that manner for fear of offending someone.

 

Hi ireckinso. I meant to reply before but I think I ended up voting on your post. I agree, it was unprofessional of him to talk about it with me. I really don't know why he felt the need to explain this to me. But this is a temporary part-time job, so hopefully I'll be out of there soon!

[ireckinso]

That's pretty unproffesional of a supervisor to talk about religion in that way. (unless you work for a religeous organization). Myself, as a member of management have to watch speaking to my employees in that manner for fear of offending someone.

 

Hi ireckinso. I meant to reply before but I think I ended up voting on your post. I agree, it was unprofessional of him to talk about it with me. I really don't know why he felt the need to explain this to me. But this is a temporary part-time job, so hopefully I'll be out of there soon!

 

Well I know through many seminars that I've had to go through during my 18years in management that you cannot ask a person about religion, amoung other things, in an interview. If I were to talk to one of my employees about religion and later down the road they felt mistreated due to a task or job duty the had to perform they could file a complaint and say I was targeting them because of religeous discrimination. So honestly its best to stay out of the situation entirely. With this only being a temp job I'm sure you probably don't have too much of a cantract with your employer so then you are "employed at will." your employer may hire, fire, promote, or demote you at any time, for any reason , and without stating a reason, unless you have a written contract that states otherwise. http://www.religioustolerance.org/harra_wk.htm That is actually a good site with info on a lot of things. I realize this is your supervisor but I would say try to avoid him/her and just get through what you need to. Good luck.

 

 

[Suzy]

11 A woman[a] should learn in quietness and full submission. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. 15 But women[c] will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.

 

1 Timothy 2:11-15

 

 

 

 

Not only the Bible claims the woman is inferior but also that the woman is more sinful! Actually she is the one to be blamed for sin! And they are only good for childbearing. Yeah, not sexist at all...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Deva]

I can't argue on a moment's notice either. It takes me awhile to formulate a response and usually by that time its too late. Then the next day I can think up stuff that's even better! Then I will start thinking about how much I wish I had said it.

 

Work is a highly inappropriate place for such talk as the supervisor was doing. I don't know if you have someone higher up you could complain to? After all, during the course of this speech, how much work was getting done? I probably would have been too appalled to say anything.

[AlphaToOmega]

Yesterday at work, out of nowhere my supervisor tells me the only people who believe the Bible is sexist are lesbians and feminists. He goes on to say in the Adam and Eve story both Adam and Eve were punished equally; one works hard the and other receives pain. Then he goes on for an hour describing verses that are not sexist. Like the resurrection. "Women were the people giving out the the news of the resurrection. Back then women didn't have a voice. Jesus talked to a prostitute. Back then it was unimaginable." And he went on and on. I'm annoyed that I had to listen to this for an hour and mad at myself for not being able to argue my viewpoint. I can't even state it here because I feel like I have to read up on everything again just so I am not saying anything inaccurate. I always feel like I don't know anything well enough to argue back.

 

So the closer we are to God's time on Earth the worse things were and the further we go from his time on Earth, the better things are.

How interesting.

 

Around the time of Jesus there were orgies, life was expendable, slaves were normal and Jesus was too scared to try and change this, he endorsed it instead either directly as in the slaves and indirectly by not addressing it.

[Positivist]

Thanks for sharing this. I agree with the others here that it was highly inappropriate of your supervisor to engage you in such a discussion/diatribe. I have trouble thinking on my feet too, and even if I can articulate a counter-argument, it just becomes a pissing competition.

 

What I find odd is that fundies don't think the Bible is sexist. But, if we were to replace all gender distinctions with racial ones, it would be considered hate literature and highly inappropriate. Consider, "People of color, submit yourselves to whites." That's not okay, so why is it okay for gender?

 

A mormon colleague recently gobbled up 2 hours of my day "witnessing" to me. It was horrible. I finally said, "Look, Joseph Smith was a delusional, narcissistic, misogynistic pedophile. That kind of religion just doesn't interest me." Well, that took care of that.

 

I am going to precontemplate what to say next time I am approached with religious content.

[Spectrox]

11 A woman[a] should learn in quietness and full submission. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. 15 But women[c] will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.

 

1 Timothy 2:11-15

 

 

 

 

Not only the Bible claims the woman is inferior but also that the woman is more sinful! Actually she is the one to be blamed for sin! And they are only good for childbearing. Yeah, not sexist at all...

 

 

 

Yep. That quote pretty much sums it up. If that isn't sexist then I don't know what is. I'm no radical feminist but even I'm offended by this twaddle. The Bible was written by men for men. Women in the Bible are characateurs. They are not portrayed as women. They are portrayed as being either saints or sluts.

 

And there's one other bit in the Bible when Jesus gives his mother a load of back chat and effectively says to her "I don't know you." (Can't remember the reference). If I'd been Mary I would have bitch slapped him and said "You're not the Messiah. You're just a very naughty boy!"

[musicpoetry]

Quote11 A woman[a] should learn in quietness and full submission. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. 15 But women[c] will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.

 

1 Timothy 2:11-15

 

 

 

 

Not only the Bible claims the woman is inferior but also that the woman is more sinful! Actually she is the one to be blamed for sin! And they are only good for childbearing. Yeah, not sexist at all...

 

This one always gets to me. Learn in quietness and full submission. Because we have no mind of our own.

And there's one other bit in the Bible when Jesus gives his mother a load of back chat and effectively says to her "I don't know you." (Can't remember the reference). If I'd been Mary I would have bitch slapped him and said "You're not the Messiah. You're just a very naughty boy!"

Lol!

Well I know through many seminars that I've had to go through during my 18years in management that you cannot ask a person about religion, amoung other things, in an interview. If I were to talk to one of my employees about religion and later down the road they felt mistreated due to a task or job duty the had to perform they could file a complaint and say I was targeting them because of religeous discrimination. So honestly its best to stay out of the situation entirely. With this only being a temp job I'm sure you probably don't have too much of a cantract with your employer so then you are "employed at will." your employer may hire, fire, promote, or demote you at any time, for any reason , and without stating a reason, unless you have a written contract that states otherwise. http://www.religious...rg/harra_wk.htm That is actually a good site with info on a lot of things. I realize this is your supervisor but I would say try to avoid him/her and just get through what you need to. Good luck.

Work is a highly inappropriate place for such talk as the supervisor was doing. I don't know if you have someone higher up you could complain to? After all, during the course of this speech, how much work was getting done? I probably would have been too appalled to say anything.

Thank you for sharing this information! Let me clarify a little. This is a work study position at school (I've gone back to school to obtain a certificate). The supervisor is a laid back type of person and there are times when I have no work to do so I read. He knows I want to leave and that I may even get a permanent job (chances are slim because of the hiring restrictions on English teachers where I am right now). He's okay with me quitting anytime, but I know he's not looking to fire me as he can't find other workers. I was also appalled but at the same time I feel like religion follows me everywhere I go. It was definitely awkward the next day I went to work, but whatever.

I can't argue on a moment's notice either. It takes me awhile to formulate a response and usually by that time its too late. Then the next day I can think up stuff that's even better! Then I will start thinking about how much I wish I had said it.

I do that too!

 

 

Around the time of Jesus there were orgies, life was expendable, slaves were normal and Jesus was too scared to try and change this, he endorsed it instead either directly as in the slaves and indirectly by not addressing it.

 

What I find odd is that fundies don't think the Bible is sexist. But, if we were to replace all gender distinctions with racial ones, it would be considered hate literature and highly inappropriate. Consider, "People of color, submit yourselves to whites." That's not okay, so why is it okay for gender

 

Great points!

 

[hereticzero]

Your supervisor is a dick and you don't have to agree with him. He can be fired for religious discrimination towards nonbelievers or someone who doesn't believe what he does, even if same faith. If you can get another job, I would go for it.

[godlesssinner]

A woman[a] should learn in quietness and full submission. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. 15 But women[c] will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.

 

1 Timothy 2:11-15

 

Ha! I happened to catch a preacher on the radio talking about this very verse the other day! He asserted that a woman subjagated to her husband isn't really inferior in the sense that she's less than her husband. No, she's simply under the rank of her husband, just as as a captain is under the rank of a general. After all, he asserted, there must be a head of command or household (and that role happens to be that of the man's). I couldn't bear to listen to anymore after that, so I flipped the channel. Gotta love the way Christians twist the meaning of their beloved text in order to reflect modern attitudes.

 

This is a work study position at school (I've gone back to school to obtain a certificate).

 

I'm in a somewhat similar situation (in certificate program) and have to contend with a Christian instructor and fellow Christian classmates. They all feel perfectly comfortable discussing their beliefs in class. I've never shared that I'm an atheist and have no intention of doing so (and hopefully the incredulous expressions on my face upon hearing some of their comments hasn't given me away). An employer or instructor may not be able to explicitly fire or kick you out for religious belief (or lack thereof) but that doesn't mean that they won't covertly try.

 

 

have trouble thinking on my feet too, and even if I can articulate a counter-argument, it just becomes a pissing competition

 

I'm the same way. And I agree; it just turns into a futile pissing contest. Unless you really love the sport of debate, you're wasting your time.

[SoulofSilver]

Sweet baby jesus I read that as "wank study program".

 

 

 

It is what your boss is doing in a way. Not literally, but wanking his own religious horn.

[midniterider]

Yesterday at work, out of nowhere my supervisor tells me the only people who believe the Bible is sexist are lesbians and feminists. He goes on to say in the Adam and Eve story both Adam and Eve were punished equally; one works hard the and other receives pain. Then he goes on for an hour describing verses that are not sexist. Like the resurrection. "Women were the people giving out the the news of the resurrection. Back then women didn't have a voice. Jesus talked to a prostitute. Back then it was unimaginable." And he went on and on. I'm annoyed that I had to listen to this for an hour and mad at myself for not being able to argue my viewpoint. I can't even state it here because I feel like I have to read up on everything again just so I am not saying anything inaccurate. I always feel like I don't know anything well enough to argue back.

 

Another thing that bothers me: Christian facebook statuses. For example, "THE CHURCH is my COLLEGE, HEAVEN is my UNIVERSITY, JESUS is my PRINCIPAL, THE HOLY SPIRIT is my TEACHER, ANGELS are my CLASS MATES, THE BIBLE is my STUDY BOOK, TRIAL & TEMPTATION are my EXAMS, WINNING SOULS are my ASSIGNMENTS, PRAYER is my ATTENDANCE, CROWN OF LIFE is my DEGREE, AND PRAISE & WORSHIP is my MOTTO. Enroll today there is room for all and tuition is FREE!!"

 

 

Really???? What bothers me is that this comes from someone who attends an IVY League school. I got my MA there and I felt like I grew as a person. Studying there taught me how to reflect on myself and how to use constructive criticism to improve myself. So what if tuition isn't free? I value my education from there and what it taught me about myself. It feels like he's saying the education he's paying for doesn't count in life.

 

Don't think anyone will read this, but now that I've written I feel a little better.

 

He went on for an hour? Wow, that's horrendous. Bring the book of Koran to work for the fun of it. :-) Or something from Richard Dawkins. Or you could kindly say something like, "I really dont believe anything in the bible."

[AlphaToOmega]

My brother used to get bothered by JW at home all the time.

He invited them in one day bit had laying on the table a copy of the Satanists Bible.

That put an end to the torment real quick.

[ScifiChick]

A woman[a] should learn in quietness and full submission. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. 15 But women[c] will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.

 

1 Timothy 2:11-15

 

Ha! I happened to catch a preacher on the radio talking about this very verse the other day! He asserted that a woman subjagated to her husband isn't really inferior in the sense that she's less than her husband. No, she's simply under the rank of her husband, just as as a captain is under the rank of a general. After all, he asserted, there must be a head of command or household (and that role happens to be that of the man's). I couldn't bear to listen to anymore after that, so I flipped the channel. Gotta love the way Christians twist the meaning of their beloved text in order to reflect modern attitudes.

 

Especially since the last time I checked, there is no need for a marriage to be run like the military or a corporation. I've been married for going on six years, and we've managed to function just fine as equals. We're even... happy! Imagine that!

[AlphaToOmega]

Especially since the last time I checked, there is no need for a marriage to be run like the military or a corporation. I've been married for going on six years, and we've managed to function just fine as equals. We're even... happy! Imagine that!

 

Except I'm usually on top...but that's something else...