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Ex-christian Need To Pass Biblical Test?


Benyan
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I have a local ex-christian group. A member posted the meeting to face book. An ex-psychology professor who also lead a monthly christian group, and has papers about ex-christians, posted this reply:

 

"I doubt very much you could call yourselves ex-Christians. You may be called unchurched. If you people could match Heb 6:4-8, then you are ex-Christians."

TC Chan to UU Hong Kong

 

 

Its a joke. If I said: "According to Heb6:4-8, I am an ex-christian." Is I a real ex-christian?vent.gif

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To test his own True ChristianTM status (instead of yours as ex-christian), maybe you could quote Mark 16:18 and offer him a nice cool glass of bleach laced with rat poison. Might as well throw in a viper too. Also be sure to send him to the local hospital to cure everyone there. Require third-party objective documentation of said "healings".

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I have a local ex-christian group. A member posted the meeting to face book. An ex-psychology professor who also lead a monthly christian group, and has papers about ex-christians, posted this reply:

 

"I doubt very much you could call yourselves ex-Christians. You may be called unchurched. If you people could match Heb 6:4-8, then you are ex-Christians."

TC Chan to UU Hong Kong

 

 

Its a joke. If I said: "According to Heb6:4-8, I am an ex-christian." Is I a real ex-christian?vent.gif

 

Just say some nasty things about Jesus and he'll be convinced you're an ex-Christian destined for destruction. I like to say 'Jesus titty-fucking Christ!', or the one that really convinces them, 'Jesus was actually gay.' And you can never go wrong with 'fuck the Holy Spirit.'

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I'm confused as to what he's saying. I went and looked up that passage:

4[/sup] It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age 6 and who have fallen[a] away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace. 7 Land that drinks in the rain often falling on it and that produces a crop useful to those for whom it is farmed receives the blessing of God. 8 But land that produces thorns and thistles is worthless and is in danger of being cursed. In the end it will be burned.

 

And all I'm seeing is that if you were a True Believer™ and have Fallen Away (whatever that means), you can't come back and will die the death of a thousand briar stabs. Is he saying that you never were True Believers™ then? Or that you haven't truly Fallen Away? I'm confused.

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PostBenyan, on 17 September 2011 - 08:34 AM, said:

 

Quote

"I doubt very much you could call yourselves ex-Christians. You may be called unchurched. If you people could match Heb 6:4-8, then you are ex-Christians."

TC Chan to UU Hong Kong

 

 

Since the topic was posted twice, I'll add my reply again, here.

Hebrews 6:4-8

 

New International Version (NIV)

 

4 It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age 6 and who have fallen[a] away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace. 7 Land that drinks in the rain often falling on it and that produces a crop useful to those for whom it is farmed receives the blessing of God. 8 But land that produces thorns and thistles is worthless and is in danger of being cursed. In the end it will be burned.

 

I don't think he comprehends those verses. Of course anyone who was a christian and no longer believes, won't go back! How can you "re-believe"? Of course, the verses are written from the christian perspective. We see it as being an obsolete belief system with no ties to reality. We put the "X" in Ex-Christian. The bible thumpers Cannot understand this like they cannot understand why a gay is gay.

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My impression after reading the guy's statement was "Screw him!" For some reason Christian have a need to try to control the show even after you get off the stage and leave the theater.

 

It could go either way. He could be saying "you haven't fallen away , you'll be back!" or "You never were a christian to begin with." But either interpretation is based on what? It's based on a religious book. Why would it be of any concern to someone who no longer believes.

 

I don't think much of the person's intellectual ability as a psychology professor if he can't see the ludicrous circularity in his thinking.

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To test his own True ChristianTM status (instead of yours as ex-christian), maybe you could quote Mark 16:18 and offer him a nice cool glass of bleach laced with rat poison. Might as well throw in a viper too. Also be sure to send him to the local hospital to cure everyone there. Require third-party objective documentation of said "healings".

But as you know, you need the Holy Spirit to properly interpret these verses, and when you use the awesome telepathic powers of the Holy Spirit, you will know that these verses are not meant to be taken literally. What Jesus really is referring to poison as false education from a anti-Christian establishment, and vipers as atheists who hate religion and Christmas. And healing is really referring to emotional healing that comes after a good, looooong prayer meeting when all your demons are cast out.

 

... just an fyi...

 

:HaHa:

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I'm confused as to what he's saying. I went and looked up that passage:

4[/sup] It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age 6 and who have fallen[a] away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace. 7 Land that drinks in the rain often falling on it and that produces a crop useful to those for whom it is farmed receives the blessing of God. 8 But land that produces thorns and thistles is worthless and is in danger of being cursed. In the end it will be burned.

 

And all I'm seeing is that if you were a True Believer™ and have Fallen Away (whatever that means), you can't come back and will die the death of a thousand briar stabs. Is he saying that you never were True Believers™ then? Or that you haven't truly Fallen Away? I'm confused.

 

That's what I took from it too. I actually think it's kinda cool. We exers have a passage dedicated to us and it's as honest and accurate as anything written in Ecclesiastes. IOW, once the questions come off the shelf, they aren't going back up there. Or, once the man behind the curtain is exposed, you ain't putting him back out of your mind.

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I have a local ex-christian group. A member posted the meeting to face book. An ex-psychology professor who also lead a monthly christian group, and has papers about ex-christians, posted this reply:

 

"I doubt very much you could call yourselves ex-Christians. You may be called unchurched. If you people could match Heb 6:4-8, then you are ex-Christians."

TC Chan to UU Hong Kong

 

 

Its a joke. If I said: "According to Heb6:4-8, I am an ex-christian." Is I a real ex-christian?vent.gif

 

 

Exactly. It is of course ludicrous to base one's ex-Christian status on whether or not it conforms to bibilcal scripture. The whole point of ex-xianity is rejection of the bible and xian doctrine. But, it might be fun to retort with your own creative and imaginative cherry picking from the book of Pokemon or Pikachu.

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But as you know, you need the Holy Spirit to properly interpret these verses, and when you use the awesome telepathic powers of the Holy Spirit, you will know that these verses are not meant to be taken literally. What Jesus really is referring to poison as false education from a anti-Christian establishment, and vipers as atheists who hate religion and Christmas. And healing is really referring to emotional healing that comes after a good, looooong prayer meeting when all your demons are cast out.

 

... just an fyi...

 

:HaHa:

 

 

 

Silly me. tongue.gif

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Hebrews:''For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God, and put Him to open shame. 7 For ground that drinks the rain which often falls upon it and brings forth vegetation useful to those for whose sake it is also tilled, receives a blessing from God; 8 but if it yields thorns and thistles, it is worthless and close to being cursed, and it ends up being burned.''

 

:scratch: I was taught that this verse was speaking directly to the Hebrews and Paul was talking about the 'grace' that Jesus gave them by dying on the cross (once you have been enlightened) and now he was telling them that if they went back to 'dead works' to gain heaven - it would embarrass what Jesus did on the cross and they would be back under the 'curse' of the law. :shrug:

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Funny how that prof twists that passage to say we exChristians were never Christians. It is used by my Mennonite people to counter the once-save-always-saved doctrine that this prof seems to believe in. For the Mennonites, it is proof that just because one believes today does not guarantee that one will always believe. We must be on guard against Satan's wily ways so long as we have breath in us lest we be led astray. That is their belief. This prof simply has a twisted view of the passage. That is my take on it.

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I haven't seen god come through with one promise for those who believe. I hear a lot of xtian excuses but no sound reasoning. My earthly father comes through in a pinch when needed. God requires years and years of disappointed prayer. Who the hell would want to repent and rejoin such a loser's club? I found freedom from slavery to the church and financial gain by not giving my money in tithes. Why in the hell would I want to go back? Every time a Christian opens its mouth, they reaffirm why I left the church in the first place: their god does not exist, they believe in mythological people and animals, and their promise of salvation through grace is the biggest crock of bullshit because it is all based upon the story of a talking snake giving a little girl a piece of magical fruit from a magical tree in a magical garden. The babble also says to 'prove all things' and xtians have not been able to prove anything except for their perverse hatred towards the human race.

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I don't really understand what the professor mean. He has a blog talking about psychology and christianity. I learn a lot from his articles. He uses psycho theory to prove god, I use same theory to prove god is an illusion. He lead a monthly psycho-christianity group. Everything post to facebook and his blog. Christian believe seems very academic, very scientific and has higher ethical standard.

 

 

In my city is very sad. Christian is lesser than 20% of population. When there is some "social ethical" issues, christian leaders will appear in TV to blah blah. Social welfare department also subsidize "homosexual healing" services. That's the reason why the prof. blah blah us ex-christians.

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I'm confused as to what he's saying. I went and looked up that passage:

4[/sup] It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age 6 and who have fallen[a] away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace. 7 Land that drinks in the rain often falling on it and that produces a crop useful to those for whom it is farmed receives the blessing of God. 8 But land that produces thorns and thistles is worthless and is in danger of being cursed. In the end it will be burned.

 

And all I'm seeing is that if you were a True Believer™ and have Fallen Away (whatever that means), you can't come back and will die the death of a thousand briar stabs. Is he saying that you never were True Believers™ then? Or that you haven't truly Fallen Away? I'm confused.

 

I take it that he means that true believers are "enlightened," have "tasted the heavenly gift" and have "tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age." By insinuating that we don't match the description in these verses, he is saying that we were not "enlightened," nor did we "taste" blah-blah-blah. In other words, he's suggesting that we were never really true Christians.

 

Of course, all this hinges on the completely unsubstantiated and seriously problematic assumption that there is any truth at all to the Christian message. I certainly felt "enlightened" when I was a believer, much like this guy probably does, but I now realize it was/is a delusion. I also "tasted" what I believed to be "the heavenly gift," but now I realize it's a figment of the imagination. I also "tasted" what I thought was "the goodness of the word of God," but now I realize how the Bible is full of contrived stories, contradictions, fabricated prophetic fulfillments, absurdities, divine injustices, etc. and is therefore not the word of God. I also felt what I believed to be "the powers of the coming age," just as this guy presumably thinks he feels, but now I realize that it's all nonsense.

 

So, yeah, I had every bit as much of a true faith as this guy apparently does. The difference between us is that I grew up. I now realize that it is simply make-believe, but he's still operating within that faulty and completely irrational framework of belief in such superstition. He still has his imaginary friend, while I live in the real world.

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