Moderator Margee Posted October 23, 2011 Moderator Share Posted October 23, 2011 The 'gift' of salvation is looking more like a curse to me at this time of my deconvertion, than ever. A 'perfect' human had to be tortured to death to 'cover my sins' and this was a 'gift' to me from god. According to our holy book, the bible, when Adam and Eve rebelled, man was separated from God through sin. God's holiness required punishment and payment (atonement) for sin, which was (and still is) eternal death. Our death is not sufficient to cover the payment for sin. Only a perfect, spotless sacrifice, offered in just the right way, can pay for our sin. Jesus, the perfect God-man, came to offer the pure, complete and everlasting sacrifice to remove, atone, and make eternal payment for sin. Why? Because God loves us and desires an intimate relationship with us. But in order to recieve this 'gift' you must believe on jesus and follow him. Where's the 'gift' in this? There is no choice with this gift. Look at this scripture: Rom 6:23 - For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. Romans 5:8 - "But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us." Eph 2:8 - For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God. And of course - we have John 3:16 - For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. I'm so glad I'm not going to church today......................Who needs presents like this?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deva Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 Yes, the "free gift" that isn't free and isn't a gift. My feeling is that only people with a lot of time on their hands could have thought up this twisted idiocy. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asanerman Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 "The more I am struck with the poignancy and wonder of being alive, the less I want to talk about God or about theology. " The reality in which this "gift" of my life is rooted is too grand, too large to be spoken about in frivolous and simplistic religious or scientific terms-- as if someone had some secret knowledge of the ultimate mystery of life. The true gift is that 'I am." I can not claim one calorie of responsibility for that happening! Cheap gab, cheap gossip and Bible thumping insult that gift! Will we ever "discover appropriate new ways to say "Take off you shoes--you are on holy ground!" ~Sam Keen 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freeasabird Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 What's sad is that people can't see through the bullshit in the bible to realize that the 'love' of god is a relic of the state of humanity at that time, and we have come so far in the last 3000 years. I think Matt Dillahunty said it something like this, nearly every human living today has greater love and compassion that the god of the bible. Yet they are willing to throw away 3000 years of progress just to cling to a tenuous idea of eternal life. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deva Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 "The more I am struck with the poignancy and wonder of being alive, the less I want to talk about God or about theology. " The reality in which this "gift" of my life is rooted is too grand, too large to be spoken about in frivolous and simplistic religious or scientific terms-- as if someone had some secret knowledge of the ultimate mystery of life. The true gift is that 'I am." I can not claim one calorie of responsibility for that happening! Cheap gab, cheap gossip and Bible thumping insult that gift! Will we ever "discover appropriate new ways to say "Take off you shoes--you are on holy ground!" ~Sam Keen I couldn't have said this better if I tried. Great post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overcame Faith Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 It seems strange to me that we should be grateful for a "gift" to deliver us from that for which this "god" is responsible in the first place. He is supposed to be all powerful and it is he who supposedly set things up the way they are. It is he who decreed that because people act in a certain way they merit hell, he that supposedly created hell, and he who supposedly allowed each alleged descendant of Adam and Eve to carry the guilt of the sin for which no one since Adam and Eve could be responsible. He created the game and the rules and, therefore, it is he who is responsible. But Christianity tries to turn that around and say each of us is responsible and that this god is the good guy. No, the truth is that the god of the bible, if he exists at all (which he doesn't), is the bad guy since he is the supposed author of it all. The truth is there is no original sin and, in fact, no sin at all. The concept of "sin" is a human construct to try to explain why things are the way they are. And it is a cruel construct because it places "blame" where it cannot rightfully be placed. Therefore, we have no need for a savior nor for the "gift of salvation" which is no gift at all. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike D Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 Free Gifts that aren't really free usually only work with that segment of the population that doesn't like to think too hard. That's why late night infomercials that give away their products for free are so successful. "The Free Gift ™ can be yours - just send $59.95 for shipping, handling and insurance. If you are not completely satisfied with Free Gift ™ simply return it for the super low low price of $29.95, which includes return shipping, insurance and restocking fee. It's our way of saying "Thanks"!! This is the lowest priced Free Gift ™ you'll find anywhere - we guarantee it!" 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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