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Goodbye Jesus

My Journey To Unbelief


ReasonQuest

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Here is one more thing to add to my deconversion story. This final week that we attended the Baptist church adult Sunday school class, the topic was about heaven. The Sunday School class leader said something like "Heaven is going to be so amazing and our life here on earth is just a blip compared to what awaits us in heaven." I wanted to stand up and say, now just wait a minute. Heaven would be nice and all, but since we can't know anything about it shouldn't we focus on making this life the best it can be? There was something to me that just didn't sit right about putting no value on our life, and only death will bring us the real life kind of thinking. We never went back there again.

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Mere Christianity is the moral argument. And some Christian right livin', like The Golden Rule. Basically it is just fusty old parochial well narrow mindedness. That's it.

 

As if Christians alone can be moral, and The Golden Rule was invented by Christians.

 

Really never understood why CS Lewis was supposed to be such a great thinker. Hated his kid's book when I was a child. Though he is more nuanced and erudite than most apologists, I will grant him that.

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I sent this last night, so it will be interesting to see what the response is. At this point I don't think I need to tell everybody else that I used to be close to through church. If we meet up again and it comes up, I'll be honest, but I'll be on an is need to know basis.

Wow RQ!! Great letter!! And courageous!!

 

Very nicely written, respectful and clear. Yes, please keep us posted!

 

I only tell people also on a need-to-know basis. Your letter gives me courage!

 

Peace.

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I heard back from my Mom and sister. My Mom was very appreciative of me being honest and clearly laying out what I believe. Of course she said she will still pray for me as she has always done. That doesn't bother me because I know she isn't saying that to be manipulative, it's just what she believes.

 

My sister was very surprised. As someone who works as a Christian Missionary dealing with people in Africa and other very poor areas of the world, she just said she felt sad, and wished I could see the things they see daily that show them the supernatural at work. My sister is a very nice person, I have never known her to say mean things about people, so I wasn't really expecting a bad response. It's just never easy to disappoint people you love.

 

I'm sure we'll continue have a good relationship, but I'm sure there will be differences. I think it has helped that I have a few of other relatives that are more secular, and even Buddhist, and Unitarian, so they are experienced relating to family with different beliefs. Plus, since we live 2000 miles away, we rarely see each other. I think it just came down to starting to feel like I wasn't being honest when they keep sending me prayer request emails, or updates on their ministry thinking I'm still in full support of their views. I just felt to live with integrity I had to break the news.

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Some advice about writing a letter to family. I would try to avoid telling them how they should feel, like saying "I'm sure you will be upset or angry." I don't think that is productive. Own your beliefs, and let them decide how they should feel about it. Say you need to live with integrity and be authentic. You can't pretend to be someone you are not. Promote the positive values you still share, just you think that they come from a different source. That's all I got ,for what it is worth.

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I think the draw to C.S. Lewis is to people what already believe but may have some doubts so they feel if someone who sounds intellectual and says they "used to be an atheist" believes it, then that saves them the time of actually thinking for themselves and give them justification for something they already believe.

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Thanks for sharing the letter with us. I appreciate the graceful way you wrote to your mom. Your letter gives me some things to think about regarding my own family. I've been thinking lately about whether or not to open up to them. Just not sure if I'm ready to take that step yet.

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I heard back from my Mom and sister. My Mom was very appreciative of me being honest and clearly laying out what I believe. Of course she said she will still pray for me as she has always done. That doesn't bother me because I know she isn't saying that to be manipulative, it's just what she believes.

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I just felt to live with integrity I had to break the news.

Thanks for the update RQ. This is really a great outcome. I think the tone of your letter contributed very positively to the outcome. It must feel good to come clean.

 

(I am still in the closet--no need for me yet to break the news other than I'm "exploring some questions about my faith" or I'm "in a wilderness right now". I envy your freedom and continue to analyze my own situation!)

 

Thanks RQ. Your courage is inspiring.

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  • 6 months later...

I've just gotten back on this site recently, and I thought I'd provide a little update. Things with my wife and kids couldn't be better. My wife and I discuss our non-belief sometimes, but not that often. My mom offered to use the "faith fund" to pay for our kids to go to a secular summer camp instead of a Christian summer camp, so that was really nice of her. After my sister's first response she hasn't asked me anything about my beliefs. I find it a little funny. I think maybe the directness, and confidence in my letter may have deflected any further discussion, probably because they know deep down their belief is a faith position that has no evidence. Plus I think my brother-in-law is the one pushing the more extreme fundamentalist views.

 

We will be traveling to the west coast next month to stay with my mom and see family and friends for a couple of weeks. It will be interesting to see how that goes. I will not see my sister and her family as they are leaving for a summer mission trip overseas.

 

I'm wondering how things will go if I see some of my other friends that we knew through church. We haven't told anyone of our west coast friends that we are no longer believers, and I prpbably will not unless we are asked directly about it. If we are visiting them and they pray before a meal. thats fine with me as long as I'm not asked to lead the prayer. My attitude is "When in Rome" type of thing. If I'm visiting someone else in their home and their custom is to pray, I'll just be silent and let them do their thing.

 

So the thing I want to talk about is my sister and her family going to Africa this summer. We are still on their missionary support email list. They sent out an email saying they felt God was calling them to take the kids to Africa to see more of work thier mission orginazation is doing, and they needed financial support to make that happen. Of course part of the trip will include time on the beach, and a stop over in Paris. Sure enough, people sent them money. Then they sent out another email saying that they felt like it was a miracle from God that they were ablt to raise the money.

 

So if you ask people for money who care about you, and make an appeal to their religious beliefs, and they send you money, how is that evidence for a supernatural intervention? Isn't that saying the people wouldn't have been generous on their own, so it took God to make them be generous? Isn't that kind of insulting? If they never asked for support, and all the suppen people just felt the urge to send money without being asked I could see how that could be taken as something strange happened, but it is not a miracle when you ask people for money who are known supporters of missions, and they send you money.

 

Anyway. Staying on these emails is a good source of a few laughs for me and my wife.

 

I have managed to build cummunity with people who I do outdoor activities with like hiking and biking. Find or start a Sunday morning group bike ride or hiking group. It's perfect for finding other people who skip church to enjoy nature.

 

RQ

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So the thing I want to talk about is my sister and her family going to Africa this summer. We are still on their missionary support email list. They sent out an email saying they felt God was calling them to take the kids to Africa to see more of work thier mission orginazation is doing, and they needed financial support to make that happen. Of course part of the trip will include time on the beach, and a stop over in Paris. Sure enough, people sent them money. Then they sent out another email saying that they felt like it was a miracle from God that they were ablt to raise the money.

 

So if you ask people for money who care about you, and make an appeal to their religious beliefs, and they send you money, how is that evidence for a supernatural intervention? Isn't that saying the people wouldn't have been generous on their own, so it took God to make them be generous? Isn't that kind of insulting?

I'm glad to hear things are going well, RQ.

 

I too have a family member who is a "missionary" at a Canadian university. I don't support them financially, but I receive their emails because I like to know what they are up to. However, I must say, the fundagelical missionary thing is really grating my flesh and I really shouldn't read their letters. They have to raise ALL of their own support (wife is a stay at home mom who home schools), but I just don't see why this is my problem. I support Doctors Without Borders, because I believe they do good work. Missionary work, at a university no less, which entails tricking students into believing in Santa Claus God/Jesus, just seems wrong to me.

 

Anyhow, thanks for the update! It always makes me happy when ex-Christians get back on their feet! smile.png

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Thanks for sharing your story. I registered tonight to let you know that I am proud of your bravery -- I am (cowardly) fearful of the moment when I confront my wife with this conversation. I can only hope my she reacts in a similar way to your wife.

 

Marmot - take it easy on you. I don't envy any of you who are in a relationship with a believer, or where you're unsure how your significant other will react. That's a hard spot to be in. It's not about cowardly or brave - it's just trying to preserve your relationship.

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