Dirac Posted November 9, 2005 Share Posted November 9, 2005 I've been out of the clutches of church for a good year now. In spite of this, I just cannot escape the spiritual and philosophical void left behind by my rejection. I just keep falling back into it by default because I have not replaced the Christian philosophy with anything. I have no new moral system, I'm just staggering along guided by a few vague Christian values of 'love your neighbour' and 'give all you have to the poor' etc. I don't really believe in helping people, I only know I feel bad if I don't. Intellectually, morally I see no reason to help others. I feel very isolated and weak and regularly experience the 'cosmic loneliness'. I think Bertran Russell recommended studying philosophy to avoid this cosmic loneliness, to attempt to understand our place in the universe. Has this worked for other people? It's just so hard to stay away, the indoctrination is so deep and I'd been crushed by it for so many years. Please give me some recommendations for staying on the straight and narrow away from Jesus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandora Posted November 9, 2005 Share Posted November 9, 2005 Have you studied other religions much? If you haven't, it is sure a good way to remind yourself why you don't have a religion. Plus, you may find a few things here and there in easter philosophy that actually makes sense (not the supernatural stuff, just the worldviews). I think studying philosophy is a good way to keep your moral mind active... it touches things that Christianity doesn't even go near, so you will be challenged as well. I am currently taking a couple philosophy courses, and it is very interesting and it does occupy my idle brain time when I normally would have been praying in vain or going to church. Best of luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qadeshet Posted November 9, 2005 Share Posted November 9, 2005 I've been out of the clutches of church for a good year now. In spite of this, I just cannot escape the spiritual and philosophical void left behind by my rejection. I just keep falling back into it by default because I have not replaced the Christian philosophy with anything. I have no new moral system, I'm just staggering along guided by a few vague Christian values of 'love your neighbour' and 'give all you have to the poor' etc. I don't really believe in helping people, I only know I feel bad if I don't. Intellectually, morally I see no reason to help others. I feel very isolated and weak and regularly experience the 'cosmic loneliness'. I think Bertran Russell recommended studying philosophy to avoid this cosmic loneliness, to attempt to understand our place in the universe. Has this worked for other people? It's just so hard to stay away, the indoctrination is so deep and I'd been crushed by it for so many years. Please give me some recommendations for staying on the straight and narrow away from Jesus. 103909[/snapback] Religion is very much like a drug. It's not unusual to get withdrawl symptoms. When I left Christianity, I got heavily into Science for a while. Especially Darwin and Evolution. The price for Truth? Giving up your old dogmatic certainty and your old Christian friends. Sometimes your family has trouble accepting your de-conversion. You are off the beaten track now and need to find a new path and purpose. There are many fine books and web sites to get you started. The Secular Web is a good place to start. The Secular Web Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spamandham Posted November 9, 2005 Share Posted November 9, 2005 I have no new moral system, I'm just staggering along guided by a few vague Christian values of 'love your neighbour' and 'give all you have to the poor' etc. I don't really believe in helping people, I only know I feel bad if I don't. Isn't helping others because it feels good enough motivation? Why must you believe in it for it to serve you? You can derive a system of ethics based only on selfish motivations, as long as you recognize that it is human nature to act with affection toward others. It's the price of being a social animal. The great thing about deriving your own ethics is that you can override them if the situation calls for it without any guilt. I feel very isolated and weak and regularly experience the 'cosmic loneliness'. I think Bertran Russell recommended studying philosophy to avoid this cosmic loneliness, to attempt to understand our place in the universe. Has this worked for other people? Russell is a god. His advice is almost always on target, and though he is often needlessly verbose, it's not nearly so much as many other famous philosophers. Philosophy does quell the existential blues. If you devote the effort to it (which doesn't have to involve any formal study, nor does it need involve trying to read Plato or Nitschke unless you just enjoy slow torture), it will reward you. By the way, you're soaking in it. Please give me some recommendations for staying on the straight and narrow away from Jesus. Think. Be critical of everything, particularly if it supports your current positions! Give a bumb a quarter for his booze, and be honest the next time you're trying to get laid. Above all, take with a grain of salt what anonymous posters tell you on internet forums, particularly if their user names involve meat products. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fweethawt Posted November 9, 2005 Share Posted November 9, 2005 First of all, welcome to the forum, Dirac. I've been out of the clutches of church for a good year now. In spite of this, I just cannot escape the spiritual and philosophical void left behind by my rejection. Take a close look at that "void". That's the only way that you're going to see how closely it resembles guilt and fear. After only a "good year" (which isn't long at all) since stepping away, it's understandable that you have these feelings. Time and patience are your best friends at this point. Don't let them go. I just keep falling back into it by default because I have not replaced the Christian philosophy with anything. Have you stopped to consider the possibility that you may not need a replacement? I have no new moral system, I'm just staggering along guided by a few vague Christian values of 'love your neighbour' and 'give all you have to the poor' etc. I'm willing to bet that the latter was an original Christian "value". What good does it do for you to give all that you have to the poor? Wouldn't that just make you poor also? As far as "loving" your neighbor, well, you don't have to do that either. This of course doesn't mean that you should hate him. As a Human, your best bet is to strive for tolerance, not love and hate. I don't really believe in helping people, I only know I feel bad if I don't. Intellectually, morally I see no reason to help others. If that's how you feel, then don't. I feel very isolated and weak and regularly experience the 'cosmic loneliness'. I think Bertran Russell recommended studying philosophy to avoid this cosmic loneliness, to attempt to understand our place in the universe. Has this worked for other people? In my opinion, the loneliness that follows moving away from religion is genuine. It's very hard to find people who see reality for what it is, let alone the difficulty of communication once you've spent years seeing it the "other" way. It's just so hard to stay away, the indoctrination is so deep and I'd been crushed by it for so many years. If you'd care to elaborate on this, this is the place to do it. Please give me some recommendations for staying on the straight and narrow away from Jesus. This is something that you'll eventually figure out on your own. I'm not too sure that there is a way that anyone here can fill this request until we learn more about you. Once again, welcome to the forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dianka Posted November 9, 2005 Share Posted November 9, 2005 Dirac, I think you need to figure out what you really believe. Maybe you will figure out the are more of an agnostic, or deist. Either you believe there is meaning in life, or you don't. But figure it out. Your void could be an urge to find a spiritual belief that you accept. It can also be the void that we all have to deal with. The void and questions of meaning you feel are normal. I hope you find comfort in knowing that others have felt the way you do now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightflight Posted November 9, 2005 Share Posted November 9, 2005 Two words: Alan Watts. He is a good introduction to Eastern philosophy, which can help you see things in a different way, morality, your place in the universe, etc. The Abrahamic religions make people feel isolated and cut off from the universe. Eastern thought such as Taoism points to one's rootedness and unity with the All. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All Gods Fail Posted November 9, 2005 Share Posted November 9, 2005 I've been out of the clutches of church for a good year now. In spite of this, I just cannot escape the spiritual and philosophical void left behind by my rejection. I just keep falling back into it by default because I have not replaced the Christian philosophy with anything. I have no new moral system, I'm just staggering along guided by a few vague Christian values of 'love your neighbour' and 'give all you have to the poor' etc. I don't really believe in helping people, I only know I feel bad if I don't. Intellectually, morally I see no reason to help others. I feel very isolated and weak and regularly experience the 'cosmic loneliness'. I think Bertran Russell recommended studying philosophy to avoid this cosmic loneliness, to attempt to understand our place in the universe. Has this worked for other people? It's just so hard to stay away, the indoctrination is so deep and I'd been crushed by it for so many years. Please give me some recommendations for staying on the straight and narrow away from Jesus. 103909[/snapback] Seriously - do you want to go back to that life? You're just now experiencing what normal life is like - there is no great plan, no judgement day hanging over your head, no devils waiting to ensnare you, no angels flitting about, no eternal judge, no mystical purpose. It's not all beer and skittles - kind of the reason people invented gods in the first place. But OTOH, we are now the masters of our own destiny. We don't get to sit back, shrug, and let imaginary beings set a pre-determined course for us in life. As a non-believer, we have the whole world open to us. I think that's so fucking cool! Nothing's holding you back now, Dirac. Did you ever want to write a book? Start your own business? Study history, or art, or science? Get moving! I had some of the best years of my life wasted by that fool religion, and it took me more years to get my head on straight. I'm past my prime, but I'm not slowing down or giving up! Shit, how many more years of life do we have? Not enough - all the more reason to get out and do something with it! Or, you could just chase girls, be a bum and goof around for a few years - enjoy yourself! Hell, that's half the reason to exist right there! :tongue: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amethyst Posted November 9, 2005 Share Posted November 9, 2005 Try joining a club or two for something you enjoy. Some hobby, or fanclub of a TV series, or something. That way, you can still get the social interaction. I suggest also going to the bookstore or library and checking out books on philosophy. If nothing else, they can be interesting reads, but you will most likely learn a lot from them like I did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HadouKen24 Posted November 16, 2005 Share Posted November 16, 2005 (which doesn't have to involve any formal study, nor does it need involve trying to read Plato or Nitschke unless you just enjoy slow torture), IMO, Nietzsche may be one of the best authors out there if you want to get over existential blues. His work is simply fantastic. He's not dry like Kant or Heidegger. His writing has some real spirit to it. Plato isn't bad, either, depending on what you read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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