Metroplex Posted November 12, 2005 Share Posted November 12, 2005 Assuming God is in 100% total control of what happens, does that men that our life is already predetermined? I mean, is our 'fate' decided? So it just plays out like it should? OR to quote Terminator 2: Judgement day: "there is no fate, but the one that we make..." or something to that sort. Any ideas??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duderonomy Posted November 12, 2005 Share Posted November 12, 2005 Hi Metroplex. According to your assumption, yes. Or no. Or both. It depends on the denomination teaching predestination, free will, etc. according to their founders. It seems like all of them (Luther, Calvin, the Catholic Church depending on when in history you ask), have different truth from the One True Word. And that's only the Christian belief... From a practical point of view, I've learned that it's the decisions we make that determine where/how we end up, and genetics, and environment. After that, it just depends on the spin we put on it. Duderonomy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazy-tiger Posted November 12, 2005 Share Posted November 12, 2005 Assuming God is in 100% total control of what happens, does that men that our life is already predetermined? I mean, is our 'fate' decided? So it just plays out like it should? OR to quote Terminator 2: Judgement day: "there is no fate, but the one that we make..." or something to that sort.Any ideas??? 105543[/snapback] Well... if God is in control of everything that rules out free-will completely. Does that mean that our life is predetermined? Not really. The crucial part of the equation is if God can change what he knows he's going to do... which would have to be no, since that would mean that he didn't know what he was going to do which would preclude him from being all-knowing. (one of the claims that is made in the Bible, I believe) In simple terms, if God was all-knowing, he would know that he was going to change what he was going to do, which means that what he does when he's changed his mind is what he knew he was going to do right from the start. In short, if God is in 100% control of what happens, then our fate is predetermined and there's bugger all we can do about it. Someone ought to tell Daniel about this... maybe the realisation that this is what God intended us to be like will stop him trying to convince us that we need to convert. After all, why would he want us to go against God's will? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JPD Posted November 12, 2005 Share Posted November 12, 2005 Even without God, an good argument can be made against free will. Strictly speaking, the human mind is just a collection of experiences and impressions. A human brain is like a dynamically expanding computer program, writing itslef based on input, but all it has to use as a basis for a response to any situation is the previous input. So, as I see it, if you could find a way to analyse all the data in a particular human mind at any given point, you could predict with pinpoint accuracy how they would respond to any given choice. Of course, we think we are freely choosing, but the only way to ever really make a free choice is to be entirely without prejudice, opinion, bias, etc. of any kind, which is impossible. From a religious perspective, with an all knowing God, freewill is also impossible. My conclusion? Freewill is an illusion, but a rather convincing one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted November 12, 2005 Share Posted November 12, 2005 The problem with Christianity is that the Bible gives support to both ideas, predetermined and free will. These verses talks about that God make us for honor or destruction, i.e. it's not in our control Rom 9:18-23 KJVA Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth. (19) Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will? (20) Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? (21) Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? (22) What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: While the concept of accepting Jesus is the one of free will and choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JPD Posted November 12, 2005 Share Posted November 12, 2005 Han, thats one of my favorite scriptures. In the NIV it translates as pottery for noble and ignoble purposes. The comparison being that of pots used to serve food and such, and pots used to piss and shit in, or in which to place refuse. He is basically comparing those of us that God has created for destruction (which is almost all of us, by the way), to toilets and trashcans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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