ConureDelSol Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Again, these are from my dad's powerpoint slides that he teaches apologetics with. I am actually impressed with these tips. I was kind of hoping they would be hilarious, but they are (mostly) reasonable. I hope this might help Christians who want to post here understand what they should and shouldn't do when interacting with atheists on this forum. I do acknowledge that not everyone here is an atheist, but some of this stuff could be applicable to anyone. Common mistakes made by Christians: Labeling Atheists Some Christians have labeled atheists as evil, stupid, or morally void. Though there may be some atheists who fit these categories (as would many in the general population), atheists are not evil, stupid, degenerates with no morals. Many of them are fine citizens, honest, caring, loving, and patient. For a Christian, or anyone, to make a blanket statement about atheists in a derogatory manner is wrong. It is the same thing atheists sometimes do when they accuse Christians of being irrational, psychotic, or stupid. Such accusations have no place on either side of the argument of truth and the error needs to be pointed out during conversations. Ignoring Atheists' Questions If you were standing on a railroad track and a train was heading your way, closing your eyes and ignoring the locomotive will not make it go away. If an atheist asks a question and you ignore it repeatedly, it would be fair for him to conclude you were incapable of answering the objection. Of course, this does not mean you have to always answer everything because dialogue flows both ways. But, it is important that you face issues. If you don't have an answer admit it. That's okay. It doesn't mean you are wrong. It means you don't have an answer. Go study and get an answer and get back to him. There is nothing wrong with this. Stating that Atheism is a religion Atheists will repeatedly tell you that they are not in a religion. A religion almost always is defined to include belief in a deity of some sort. Atheism is non-belief in a deity. It isn't necessarily a "belief that there is no God." To label an atheist as a religious person is to put up a roadblock to effective communication. It would be like someone saying to a Christian, "You believe in a mean, tyrannical being who likes to torture people." The Christian would simply roll his eyes and think that the person doesn't know what he's talking about. So, how much effective conversation could there be in either instance? Not much. Stating unsupportable facts No one has all documentation for everything they say. It is not reasonable to require proof from an atheist on everything said. Nevertheless, if you are going to state a fact or two, it is good to have the documentation at the tip of your tongue -- at least occasionally. It adds an air of credibility to your argument. Of course, you don't have to document everything, but if you have some illustrious fact to use, try and have it documented. Never admitting when you are wrong Pride is a harmful thing. It caused the fall. It ruins marriages. It leads to anger and self-righteousness. It has no place in the Christian's life. Never admitting you are wrong is being prideful. If an atheist, or anyone, proves you wrong in something, be kind and courteous. Admit you made a mistake and go on. Everyone makes mistakes, even atheists. There is nothing wrong with admitting an error. It no more proves you are wrong about Christianity than being wrong about the color of a boat means boats don't exist. But, if you never admit when you are wrong, you will not be able to convince anyone in a discussion of your position. You will simply lose the respect of the one with whom you are debating. Hopefully this will explain things on a level Christians who debate here can understand. This may make you experience here more pleasant for everyone. I'm kind of surprised this came from my dad, but I guess I'm proud. He may be Christian, but at least he's a pretty reasonable one. Well, not in politics, but in debate he is. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackpudd1n Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Conure, can I just ask, no need to answer, but have you thought about what this may mean for you in terms of coming out? Just a thought, like I said, no need to answer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConureDelSol Posted January 27, 2012 Author Share Posted January 27, 2012 Conure, can I just ask, no need to answer, but have you thought about what this may mean for you in terms of coming out? Just a thought, like I said, no need to answer I only just saw this all today. It's actually really encouraging for me. I'm not so sure my mom would understand, but at least I know my dad isn't as stubborn and unreasonable as I thought he was. I'd still like to be free from going to church before I come out, but this makes me less afraid of telling them while I'm still living with them. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Conure, can I just ask, no need to answer, but have you thought about what this may mean for you in terms of coming out? Just a thought, like I said, no need to answer I only just saw this all today. It's actually really encouraging for me. I'm not so sure my mom would understand, but at least I know my dad isn't as stubborn and unreasonable as I thought he was. I'd still like to be free from going to church before I come out, but this makes me less afraid of telling them while I'm still living with them. Hey your dad did good. It's refreshing to see there are Christians like him. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zephie Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 I can understand how hard this can be. I live with my parents too and until I find another place to live, I'll be going to church with them every Sunday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigile Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Nice list. Most xians visiting this site could benefit from your dad's class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackpudd1n Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 Conure, can I just ask, no need to answer, but have you thought about what this may mean for you in terms of coming out? Just a thought, like I said, no need to answer I only just saw this all today. It's actually really encouraging for me. I'm not so sure my mom would understand, but at least I know my dad isn't as stubborn and unreasonable as I thought he was. I'd still like to be free from going to church before I come out, but this makes me less afraid of telling them while I'm still living with them. Yeah, I'd be encouraged, too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prestissimo Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 You can be very proud of your dad! Awesome guy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NEWsong Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 I have one that I think should somehow be included in that list.. *Don't assume or patronize an "a theist" or non-christian, demeaning and discounting their struggle and eventual change of beliefs from chrisitianity by MINIMIZING it to "having been hurt or disappointed" by God or the church. There is NO proof that abuse leads to decision to deconvert; these EX christians have thoughtfully gained insight into themselves and have realized the FUTILITY of the christian mythos. They may not be harboring any hatred, bitterness or negative attitude. To assume that this is the reason for their deconversion, is a GRAVE OVERSIGHT and IGNORANCE on part of the christian. NON christians are people too...treat them with respect. IMHO to this comment: Speaking to christians: If you don't have an answer admit it. That's okay. It doesn't mean you are wrong. It means you don't have an answer.Go study and get an answer and get back to him. There is nothing wrong with this. Well, so far the only "answer" that we get from christians on this site is that the "bible says so"...It would be nice to the christians on this site to read the list and "reason" with us rather than throwing up (the bible) all over us... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Xtech Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 http://commonsenseatheism.com/?p=2090 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeCoastie Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 Those are very good tips in that PP. A Christian was preaching to me while I was walking through town and brought about stuff like Adam and Eve to convince me of his point, and I'm just rolling my eyes through it. I wouldn't say don't use the Bible when talking to atheists, but Christians need to recognize that we don't accept the Bible as a source of authority. I don't think there is a magic verse in that book that'll turn us around. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destinyjesus3000 Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 This is interesting thanks, we must seek to understand before we are understood. We must practice communicating with people there is no perfect way. Dealing with multiple people will help broaden communication skills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deva Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 I would add one thing to the first category "Atheists left Christianity because they were angry at God." I heard that stereotype just the other day, although it was not stated directly. Or "it is a heart problem" ugh - sounds like clogged arteries. I would like to see a comprehension among Christians that there are many reasons for leaving Christianity and becoming atheist. There "gasp" even INTELLECTUAL reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
★ Citsonga ★ Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Wow, that is probably about the best approach to atheism that I have ever seen from a Christian. Are you sure your dad isn't also a closet atheist or questioner? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destinyjesus3000 Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 sounds like a loving christian to me, we need more people like him and less people like most people Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
decafaholic Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Wow, your dad sounds like a reasonable guy. I wish every evangelical would read this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lilcoppertop Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 Ignoring Atheists' Questions If you don't have an answer admit it. That's okay. It doesn't mean you are wrong. It means you don't have an answer. Go study and get an answer and get back to him. There is nothing wrong with this. ............................. Never admitting when you are wrong Everyone makes mistakes, even atheists. There is nothing wrong with admitting an error. It no more proves you are wrong about Christianity than being wrong about the color of a boat means boats don't exist. But, if you never admit when you are wrong, you will not be able to convince anyone in a discussion of your position. You will simply lose the respect of the one with whom you are debating. These two points really stood out to me. Probably because of the humility it takes to 1. admit you don't know something and 2. admit you were wrong. I know there are always exceptions to the general rule, but my observation has usually been that when it comes to discussions/debates between Christians and Atheists the overall tone seems to lean towards arrogance. As a Christian, I was never confident in debating with non-believers mostly because I had nothing outside the Bible to try and convince them with. My own ignorance, I know. =) I had to swallow my pride many times and admit I didn't know. Having experienced first hand how hard that can be, my respect for a person increases when they can humbly admit they don't know the answer. And it increases even more when they can admit they made a mistake. I know it's a hard thing for anyone to do, but for Christians I think it may be especially hard. I remember worrying that if I admitted I didn't know something or that I made a mistake, every single thing I said would be discredited. It would be used as an excuse by whoever I was talking to to not give their heart to the God I loved and who I believed loved them. Sure, in some cases that might be true. But honesty and humility are important for real relationships. I'd like to add one thing to the very good advice Conure's dad gave but it's really only applicable to conversations with ex-Christians. Visiting Christians, please do not ever assume we are EX-Christians because we never really knew "The Truth." This is (in my opinion) the most insulting thing you could say about my deconversion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wester Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 "it is good to have the documentation at the tip of your tongue -- at least occasionally." Hahahah --- Due to my opinions - as an anarchist, anti-authoritarian, liberal, socialist, pro-democratic, anti-war, envionmentalist, union organizer and social critic, I am required by custom to provide immediate, meticulous, radically exact and mind-bogglingly specific (as well as entertaining) and comprehensible chapter-and-verse documatiation for nearly ever word that falls from my mouth. Anything short of this means by default that I am wrong. wrong. totally wrong, and need to be gagged, censured and deported to Siberia. This is how our current "system" works. Meanwhile, on the other side: "it is good to have the documentation at the tip of your tongue -- at least occasionally." 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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