Mike D Posted November 13, 2005 Share Posted November 13, 2005 Awhile back I was having a conversation with my cousin about religion (she is agnostic), and she told me a story about a girl she works with who was a Christian at one time, but now does not believe in God at all. And she started telling me about this girl and what brought her to that point. Apparently this girl is a nice pretty suburban girl from a good Christian god-fearing family, got good grades in high school, was a cheerleader, blah blah blah. Basically went through life doing the "right thing" and being a good Christian and all that. Anyway one weekend when she was in high school she spent the night over at a friends house, which was just kind of your usual typical weekend activity. What she didn't know was that while she was at her friends house fast asleep late that night, a home invasion was occuring at her house. And what she would find out later the next day is that her mother, her father, and her little brother were all brutally and violently murdered by 3 people during the course of this home invasion, which apparently went terribly, horribly wrong. Anyway to make a long story short, after a long period of anguish the girl basically decided that whatever god she believed in definitely wasn't Jesus or God of the Bible or flat out just didn't exist. In her mind, she could not believe in a God who asks you to have faith in him only to then turn around and let your entire family be murdered. And not just murdered, but murdered in such a way that she would become physically ill if she even thought for more than a second about how her family suffered. To add a bit of irony to this, apparently one of the killers found Jesus in prison, and recently married a fine God fearing Christian woman, who will stand by him till the bitter end So since this girl no longer believes in Jesus, acccording to the Bible she is commiting a sin so horrible that it is unpardonable, her sin will not be forgiven in this age or the next. And so, also according to the Bible, on judgement day God will release his wrath and fury and vengeance on this wicked evil girl by justly casting her into the lake of fire to be tortured for eternity. At the same time, (according to the Bible) the killer who killed her entire family who has come to Jesus with the faith of a little innocent child, will be justly showered with God's love, and gently take his hand to lead him into the gates of Heaven where he will receive his just reward of eternity in heaven. And to add a bit more irony, this same killer who will be rewarded is probably the cause of why the girl no longer believes in Jesus and will be cast into the lake of fire. Gee, god really has a good handle on what is just, doesn't he So Christians, here is my question. Do you see anything wrong with this picture, or do you agree, God is just and you will gladly throw up your hands and shout "hallalujia" on judgement day, when God casts people like this traumatized girl into the lake of fire for being so wicked and swings opens the gates of heaven for brutal killers for being so righteous? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All Gods Fail Posted November 13, 2005 Share Posted November 13, 2005 So Christians, here is my question. Do you see anything wrong with this picture, or do you agree, God is just and you will gladly throw up your hands and shout "hallalujia" on judgement day, when God casts people like this traumatized girl into the lake of fire for being so wicked and swings opens the gates of heaven for brutal killers for being so righteous? 106284[/snapback] If I may? The standard kneejerk reaction to this is one of 2 responses. 1) The Shrug. "Well, god made the rules. That cheerleader made her choice. She is just a big of a sinner as the guy who murdered her family, but she rejected Christ. God doesn't force us to choose." This way, you dodge the question. Hey, I didn't make the rules! I'm just following orders. 2) Denial "God wouldn't do that to that poor girl. He's just and good. He'd help her to heal and forgive her family's killers, then she'd be able to see her loved ones again after she dies and nobody goes to hell!" Pretty - but that's not what the bible says. It's pretty clear on that. God's just itching to cast non-believers into the lake o' fire. Who cares if a lousy, punk-ass killer makes it into heaven and a genuinely good person fries? Not Yahweh, that's for sure. There's many variations on these 2 responses, but I think I've covered the basic rationale - or lack thereof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vixentrox Posted November 13, 2005 Share Posted November 13, 2005 Forgot the less popular, "There is no real hell". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amethyst Posted November 13, 2005 Share Posted November 13, 2005 Another variation: Well, we don't know for sure that god sends good people like that to hell. Maybe he gives them another chance when they die. We just have to hope and pray for the best (cause we're too afraid to take the plunge and stop believing in a 2,000 year-old cult that brainwashes us because you know, bad things only happen to bad people, not good little girls). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MQTA Posted November 13, 2005 Share Posted November 13, 2005 oh, wait, she was never really a Christian and this was punishment for her lack of belief Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amethyst Posted November 13, 2005 Share Posted November 13, 2005 Or the "maybe her family members weren't real Christians and this was a test to see if she would pass or not, and she failed miserably" crap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike D Posted November 13, 2005 Author Share Posted November 13, 2005 I think I've covered the basic rationale - or lack thereof. 106288[/snapback] Exactly. It seems like to answer this question Bibllically the person is a jerk (but a Christian), if they answer it non-Biblically they aren't a jerk, but they aren't a true Christian either. I guess to be a True Christian you almost have to be a jerk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedPillAddict Posted November 13, 2005 Share Posted November 13, 2005 Theres only one answer for this...they were all sinners. Her father watched porno. Her mother went to a psychic. Her little brother questioned the existence of God. BAM! Case solved. The robbers were angels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amethyst Posted November 13, 2005 Share Posted November 13, 2005 Her father watched porno.Her mother went to a psychic. Her little brother questioned the existence of God. As I said, the "they weren't real true Christians" excuse. A lot of Christians like to use it because it makes them feel better about bad stuff like that actually happening to good people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted November 14, 2005 Share Posted November 14, 2005 It's strange that every Christian believes they're the True Christian until they lose their faith, and suddenly they never were True Christians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted November 14, 2005 Share Posted November 14, 2005 god gave free will to the murdurers. Free will to decide they wanted to kill the people. Besides all of you are missing the point- it doesnt matter if god exists or doesnt- the whole point of religion is to facilitate love and kindness- whether you wanna believe on god or not thats up to you- but think about the bigger picture Ill probally never come back to this website. I just happened to google god and somehow ended up here. read this thread and felt I had to post. Think about it though..... really think about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted November 14, 2005 Share Posted November 14, 2005 god gave free will to the murdurers. Free will to decide they wanted to kill the people. Besides all of you are missing the point- it doesnt matter if god exists or doesnt- the whole point of religion is to facilitate love and kindness- whether you wanna believe on god or not thats up to you- but think about the bigger picture It does matter, if you claim God is loving and just. Ill probally never come back to this website. I just happened to google god and somehow ended up here. read this thread and felt I had to post. Then my answer to you won't matter to you. Think about it though..... really think about it. 106632[/snapback] Was 30 years and more enough of time thinking about it? 3/4 of my life is not enough? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daniel_1012 Posted November 14, 2005 Share Posted November 14, 2005 So Christians, here is my question. Do you see anything wrong with this picture, or do you agree, God is just and you will gladly throw up your hands and shout "hallalujia" on judgement day, when God casts people like this traumatized girl into the lake of fire for being so wicked and swings opens the gates of heaven for brutal killers for being so righteous? Well, at this point we only have part of the story. You have been told where this girl is currently, but you don't know where she will be at a later day before she dies. Whatever happens to this girl, will be right. God is absolutely righteous in all of His decisions. When judgment day occurs for us, there won't be anybody saying, "Well, I don't think you got this quite right God... no, you didn't understand this situation here. Here, let me show you something you missed, I don't think you knew about this God." He will be perfectly accurate, to the point where yes, His children and angels will praise Him in all of his decisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asimov Posted November 14, 2005 Share Posted November 14, 2005 What if your whole family was murdered? Well....that would kinda suck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MQTA Posted November 14, 2005 Share Posted November 14, 2005 Well, at this point we only have part of the story. You have been told where this girl is currently, but you don't know where she will be at a later day before she dies. Whatever happens to this girl, will be right. God is absolutely righteous in all of His decisions. When judgment day occurs for us, there won't be anybody saying, "Well, I don't think you got this quite right God... no, you didn't understand this situation here. Here, let me show you something you missed, I don't think you knew about this God." He will be perfectly accurate, to the point where yes, His children and angels will praise Him in all of his decisions. 106641[/snapback] What about the 3 members of her family that are GONE, destroyed, brutally murdered? The only issue with the girl is that she's still alive. Is that because God had her make other plans so He could have the other 3 brutally murdered? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asuryan Posted November 14, 2005 Share Posted November 14, 2005 [What about the 3 members of her family that are GONE, destroyed, brutally murdered? The only issue with the girl is that she's still alive. Is that because God had her make other plans so He could have the other 3 brutally murdered? 106659[/snapback] Well... the bible tells us that god just loves to exterminate whole families to test the faith of just 1 survivor of said families. The other members of the family? They don't mind. Jobe is the protagonist, his family is just cannon fodder, we aren't supposed to feel something for them. Hallelujah! Ill probally never come back to this website. I just happened to google god and somehow ended up here. read this thread and felt I had to post. Somehow? Everything is part of god's plan, guest. You didn't happen here by mistake. God knew that you'd end up here in your search. God wanted you to end up here. He wanted you, a christian, on a site that helps people abandoning christianity. Think about it. Really think about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted November 14, 2005 Share Posted November 14, 2005 God is absolutely righteous in all of His decisions. When judgment day occurs for us, there won't be anybody saying, "Well, I don't think you got this quite right God... no, you didn't understand this situation here. Here, let me show you something you missed, I don't think you knew about this God." Umm...for your information, that's called accountability. In the event that the girl in the aforementioned text dies tonight and faces judgement tomorrow, and God is purports that all he's done is accurate and righteous, and anyone can see it clearly isn't the case, what recourse does the girl have? Kay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedPillAddict Posted November 14, 2005 Share Posted November 14, 2005 God just doesnt understand. You kill his family and they just rise from the dead again...no fair, God, no fair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwc Posted November 14, 2005 Share Posted November 14, 2005 Well, at this point we only have part of the story. You have been told where this girl is currently, but you don't know where she will be at a later day before she dies. Whatever happens to this girl, will be right. Don't you mean "Whatever happens to this girl, will be alright with me as long as I get my reward"? God is absolutely righteous in all of His decisions. When judgment day occurs for us, there won't be anybody saying, "Well, I don't think you got this quite right God... no, you didn't understand this situation here. Here, let me show you something you missed, I don't think you knew about this God." He will be perfectly accurate, to the point where yes, His children and angels will praise Him in all of his decisions. Who says "god" is absolutely righteous in all of his decisions? Oh, that's right...he does! Sounds pretty reasonable to me. I also think you'll hear a lot of people claiming "god" is screwing up but what can they do about it...nothing. So what happens on that day when old Danny is spat out? Well, personally, I'll laugh my ass off as we're both tossed into the lake o' fire (but I sure hope you shut up about how unfair it is after a millenia or two). Don't think it can't happen to you? Read the book there's no guarantees even if you're positive you're getting in. mwc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All Gods Fail Posted November 15, 2005 Share Posted November 15, 2005 Dan-dan gave a slight variation of the most typical reaction, the Shrug. 1) The Shrug. "Well, god made the rules. That cheerleader made her choice. She is just a big of a sinner as the guy who murdered her family, but she rejected Christ. God doesn't force us to choose." This way, you dodge the question. Hey, I didn't make the rules! I'm just following orders. Way to go, Dan! Jesus will reward your mighty faith! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amethyst Posted November 15, 2005 Share Posted November 15, 2005 Umm...for your information, that's called accountability. In the event that the girl in the aforementioned text dies tonight and faces judgement tomorrow, and God is purports that all he's done is accurate and righteous, and anyone can see it clearly isn't the case, what recourse does the girl have? But what if he isn't? What if the fundies are right and she goes to hell? Or if the atheists are right and there's nothing? Or if there's something else, but it's not Biblegod's afterlife? What if there's some other afterlife and their hell is worse, like the Muslims? There's more than just two options, you know. So if there's accountability, who is accounting for god's actions when he doesn't save the victims of 9/11 who were just going to work as usual that day, or the people who died in Hurricane Katrina because they trusted him to take care of them? What about my mother, who died from cancer when I was in high school and she was a fundy Lutheran and everyone at our fundy Lutheran church prayed for her? (That's not why I deconverted, btw. Read the testimonies here if you are curious as to why we all deconverted.) What about everyone else who died because of god's broken promises and didn't go to heaven? What about all the innocent people in other countries born into Muslim families or Buddhist families or whatever, who go to hell just because they were in other countries where Christianity was unpopular? Who accounts for god's actions? Apparently he is above accountability, just like Saddam Hussein, Osama bin Laden, Adolf Hitler and all the other depots throughout history who thought they were above accountability too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike D Posted November 15, 2005 Author Share Posted November 15, 2005 Well, at this point we only have part of the story. You have been told where this girl is currently, but you don't know where she will be at a later day before she dies. Whatever happens to this girl, will be right. Well lets say just for shits and giggles she gets run over by a dump truck tomorrow while she's out jogging and she ends up road kill. So for the purposes of our hypothetical judgement day, she doesn't believe in Jesus. God is absolutely righteous in all of His decisions. So you agree then, she deserves to be brutally and sadistically tortured for her wicked evil deed of disbelieving in Jesus? Alrighty then. When judgment day occurs for us, there won't be anybody saying, "Well, I don't think you got this quite right God... no, you didn't understand this situation here. The good thing is that judgement day isn't actually going to occur because it's only a story. So, you're right nobody will be saying that. He will be perfectly accurate, to the point where yes, His children and angels will praise Him in all of his decisions. Well luckily for us, we can take comfort in the fact that invisible people like angels aren't real, and angry gods are just a figment of the imagination of delusional religionists who hallucinate them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike D Posted November 15, 2005 Author Share Posted November 15, 2005 Oh and daniel, you also agree that while she's being brutally and sadistically tortured, you also agree that it would be just for for this brutal killer to be rewarded with an eternity of bliss? Just checking to make sure you agree the scales of justice are evenly weighted in this case as far as you are concered Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amethyst Posted November 15, 2005 Share Posted November 15, 2005 What about this girl? What if she deconverts later in life? I suppose she's going to hell then too, according to the fundies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike D Posted November 15, 2005 Author Share Posted November 15, 2005 This kind of stuff happens all the time where really horrible things happen to Christian families and then one or more of the family members stop believing in god/Jesus, etc because of it. So what they get is a really horrible life then they are traumatized and don't believe in god anymore, and then get to burn in hell afterwards for it. God is love Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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