MrsRoper Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 I read this great article yesterday, " Why War Isn't Inevitable: A Science Writer Studies the Secret to Peaceful Societies" http://www.alternet.org/world/154508/why_war_isn%27t_inevitable%3A_a_scientist_studies_the_secret_to_peaceful_societies/ It was helpful to me because, as I age I become increasingly more uncomfortable with war, and the way we are forced through conventional wisdom to just shrug our shoulders and accept that war is always with us. I am uncomfortable in conversations with friends & family when they degrade unemployment insurance, social security, medicaid/care & welfare - but they are totally comfortable with how much of our tax money is spent on going to war. I don't even know how to respond in those situations, because even asking questions gets you labeled naive or unpatriotic. Related to this topic, is this article I read this morning regarding evangelical pastors that preach war from the pulpit & the necessity to change the hearts and minds of their followers: http://www.aljazeerah.info/Opinion%20Editorials/2012/March/19%20o/John%20Hagee%20Alleges%20a%20Copyright%20Claim%20on%20His%20Prayer%20for%20War%20Video%20By%20Charles%20E%20Carlson.htm What are your thoughts and feelings regarding our culture of war in the US? Can we become a peaceful nation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stryper Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 War is sometimes inevitable. When the Mongols show up on your farm and are shooting arrows. It's pretty much inevitable. In ancient times, communication was far worse. So war happened more often. Now there is little reason for armed conflict if people would just sit down and talk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigile Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/war-you-dont-see/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrsRoper Posted March 21, 2012 Author Share Posted March 21, 2012 War is sometimes inevitable. When the Mongols show up on your farm and are shooting arrows. It's pretty much inevitable. In ancient times, communication was far worse. So war happened more often. Now there is little reason for armed conflict if people would just sit down and talk. i think that is why I liked this article, he shows that war only began about 10,000 years ago. And speaks of some case studies where cultures gave up on war and built up their infrastructures instead. The problem comes from the people who LOVE engaging in war, and the moderate people who protect war lovers, by just thinking, "Oh well, war is always with us." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrsRoper Posted March 21, 2012 Author Share Posted March 21, 2012 http://topdocumentar...r-you-dont-see/ I will try and watch this soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurisaz Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 ...I am uncomfortable in conversations with friends & family when they degrade unemployment insurance, social security, medicaid/care & welfare - but they are totally comfortable with how much of our tax money is spent on going to war... Funny, ain't it? If you ask me, that's another thing that is very easy to explain on the basis of cooperative vs authoritarian worldview. Authoritarians ("conservatives", though the two need not be identical) commonly see everything as rivalry/competition/fight and everyone who doesn't kiss the right führer's arse as a potential enemy. Hence the disdain for social security et al, and the "war's okay" attitude. To them it's literally natural. Just my two cents worth. I may be wrong... just saying that it seems like a damn good explanation to me. ...What are your thoughts and feelings regarding our culture of war in the US? Can we become a peaceful nation? For what it's worth, it's not just the US. "You" are just more radical than "us" in that respect, though our glorious leader chancellorette is busily trying to catch up with you. War is sometimes inevitable. When the Mongols show up on your farm and are shooting arrows. It's pretty much inevitable. Quite true, if you're attacked, passive resistance is not always much of an option. Sadly. Aggression, though, should be total utter no-go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigile Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 You" are just more radical than "us" in that respect, though our glorious leader chancellorette is busily trying to catch up with yo In what respects? Quite true, if you're attacked, passive resistance is not always much of an option. Sadly. Aggression, though, should be total utter no-go In today's world, this is rarely a legitimate threat though. The US, for instance, is in no danger at all of being invaded by angry hoards. Nuclear weapons, alliances such as NATO, and a massive imbalance in military spending and technology makes these old fears obsolete. Nevertheless, powers that be use these threats to rile up the public so that they will freely send money, sons and daughters off to harms way in order to protect and enforce oil et al contracts and shore up dissent amongst the quasi colonialists. This series is quite interesting: http://watchseries.eu/serie/empire_2012 Note the amazing parallels between the old British Empire and the way they controlled the colonials and how the US today shores up support, props up puppet governments, hires out mercenaries and engages in widespread propaganda efforts both at home and abroad in order to maintain its hegomonic position in the world. Colonialism isn't dead, it's just shape-shifted. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 War is sometimes inevitable. When the Mongols show up on your farm and are shooting arrows. It's pretty much inevitable. In ancient times, communication was far worse. So war happened more often. Now there is little reason for armed conflict if people would just sit down and talk. Unless: -they are stronger than you -they want something you have -nobody stronger than them will come to your aid or punish them -they can justify attacking you in their own mind As long as those conditions are not met . . . In other words we have not evolved that much since the old days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stryper Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 War is sometimes inevitable. When the Mongols show up on your farm and are shooting arrows. It's pretty much inevitable. In ancient times, communication was far worse. So war happened more often. Now there is little reason for armed conflict if people would just sit down and talk. Unless: -they are stronger than you -they want something you have -nobody stronger than them will come to your aid or punish them -they can justify attacking you in their own mind As long as those conditions are not met . . . In other words we have not evolved that much since the old days. All this goes to what Thurisaz said about Authoritarian mindset. The bully on the playground takes your lunch money because he believes might makes right. US is doing what it is in Iraq et al for much the same reason. We have the might and you have what we need, and since your not using it..... It is this belief that is inspired by classical economics that there isn't enough to go around so we have to manage the scarcity. So one way to do that is simply to take it. Because this is the basis of economies, there will be competition. Until the economic theories change, it will stay this way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurisaz Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 You" are just more radical than "us" in that respect, though our glorious leader chancellorette is busily trying to catch up with yo In what respects? Regarding willingness to engage in, and (with some, I think) even lust for, violence / war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrsRoper Posted March 22, 2012 Author Share Posted March 22, 2012 It is this belief that is inspired by classical economics that there isn't enough to go around so we have to manage the scarcity. So one way to do that is simply to take it. Because this is the basis of economies, there will be competition. Until the economic theories change, it will stay this way. I think the point of the article is that we don't have to wait for economic theories to change. What needs to change is our belief system regarding war. Believing that it is enivitable, believing that it is always with us, believing that it is economics when in actuality it is about and/or fear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Overpopulation is the enemy. Either find a way to support a larger population, find ways to control birth or both. Otherwise too many rats in the maze leads to war and violent crime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigile Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 It is this belief that is inspired by classical economics that there isn't enough to go around so we have to manage the scarcity. So one way to do that is simply to take it. Because this is the basis of economies, there will be competition. Until the economic theories change, it will stay this way. I think the point of the article is that we don't have to wait for economic theories to change. What needs to change is our belief system regarding war. Believing that it is enivitable, believing that it is always with us, believing that it is economics when in actuality it is about and/or fear. But it IS all about economics. Fear is just what they use to sell the public. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurisaz Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 Overpopulation is the enemy. Either find a way to support a larger population, find ways to control birth or both. Otherwise too many rats in the maze leads to war and violent crime. Overpopulation sure "helps" with starting wars, but sadly it's not the only reason for war. If it was like that, bringing peace to the world would be almost ridiculously easy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hungrydingo Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 Among humans, conflict and violence is inevitable. It's sad but that is the nature of human beings. There are too many needs humans need to fulfill and resources are too scarce for everyone to get them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrsRoper Posted March 24, 2012 Author Share Posted March 24, 2012 Among humans, conflict and violence is inevitable. It's sad but that is the nature of human beings. There are too many needs humans need to fulfill and resources are too scarce for everyone to get them. Yrs, that is the conventional wisdom, but the above article debunks that thinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigile Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 http://video.google....084962209910782 War Made Easy 1:10:15 - 4 years ago War Made Easy reaches into the Orwellian memory hole to expose a 50-year pattern of government deception and media spin that has dragged the United States into one war after another from Vietnam to Iraq. Narrated by actor and activist Sean Penn, the film exhumes remarkable archival footage of official distortion and exaggeration from LBJ to George W. Bush, revealing in stunning detail how the American news media have uncritically disseminated the pro-war messages of successive presidential administrations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
♦ nivek ♦ Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 Vid is a good find Vig. We've been continually encouraged by "our betters" by continual manipulation by a continual overload of piss poor teaching of critical bullshit sifting and the total propaganda state. Forcing people to choose just A OR B, we find that there seem to be no choices other than what is offered. The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary. H. L. Mencken (From here) Manipulated, mangled, murdered like sheep we stupid electorate are. "All war is a racket" according to USMC Gen S, Butler back in the 30's. Major Corporations then sent the Corps into jungles of so named Banana Republics to control governments, resources and control trade. What has changed since other than the names of actors? Nuttin' much. kL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deva Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 Wow, Viglie, great video. I think I will go to foreign news sources now. What a great deception of the American people! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ro-bear Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 i think that is why I liked this article, he shows that war only began about 10,000 years ago. And speaks of some case studies where cultures gave up on war and built up their infrastructures instead. So basically war has existed since man became organized enough to wage it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigile Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 Wow, Viglie, great video. I think I will go to foreign news sources now. What a great deception of the American people! What I found most interesting is the exact same saber-rattling methods are now being used on Iran, preparing the nation to accept the 'inevitable' as what has always been used in the past. Since they followed this pattern in Iraq just 10 short years ago, I think this video can be quite eye-opening for people today as they can see the parallels for themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RankStranger Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 Yeah, war IS inevitable. We're that fucking stupid. We DON'T learn from our mistakes. It really amazes me. Even people I know who readily admit that the war in Iraq was a mistake and the war in Afghanistan was questionable- they believe every word they hear about how EVIL Iran is. I've pointed out to a few that this is exactly the same thing we saw leading up to the war in Iraq- and they mostly just tell me that fucking Ahmadinejad is a bad bad man. Same shit, different war. And I reckon it'll keep happening long after we're gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LivingLife Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 What I found most interesting is the exact same saber-rattling methods are now being used on Iran, preparing the nation to accept the 'inevitable' as what has always been used in the past. Since they followed this pattern in Iraq just 10 short years ago, I think this video can be quite eye-opening for people today as they can see the parallels for themselves. The parallels are very easy to see looking in from the outside. The idea that Iran nuclear threat is being used to rile up the masses works pretty fucking well with the end of daze woos that deem a conflict in the ME is inevitable. If Ahmadinejad was not in the equation, there would be another mouth piece to piss off the USA. The reality is the USA does not like it when the biggest oil supplier can supply at discount and ignore the big OIL franchises of the beloved USA. Plus the Russians have vested interests in Iran and they are NOT about to withdraw but may pay lip service to the US to simply get them to STFU. I suspect that SASOL here in SA that managed to source oil from an alternative in one day will still be getting their oil from Iran, just via a back door. You really think SA is a banana republic? We were pretty good in sanction busting and there is no way we can suddenly change plants to cater for a lighter crude. Someone has to finance that and are the US going to foot the bill? I doubt it. Smoke and mirrors play out again. We'll probably source it via China. What sanctions will the US impose on China? Yeah, war IS inevitable. We're that fucking stupid. We DON'T learn from our mistakes. It really amazes me. Even people I know who readily admit that the war in Iraq was a mistake and the war in Afghanistan was questionable- they believe every word they hear about how EVIL Iran is. I've pointed out to a few that this is exactly the same thing we saw leading up to the war in Iraq- and they mostly just tell me that fucking Ahmadinejad is a bad bad man. Same shit, different war. And I reckon it'll keep happening long after we're gone. The difference here is the risk of confrontation with Russia and another prolonged cold war2.0 or escalation to a WWIII. That is the scary part. What happens in the end? The US are not going to "share" assets of Iran with Russia now are they? Iran today images Tehran How different is this to any average US city? It is not some hick village in the desert sands. The people will unite against a foreign aggressor despite their differences towards the Ayatollah (whoc actually is the HMIC (head man in charge) The only common denominator here is Israel and their perceived threat of being attacked and wiped off the face of the earth. There were no WMD's in Iraq and it was all for naught. This culture does seem to be at peace amongst themselves in general and the women here are not so oppressed as elsewhere, they are allowed to show their faces at least Pretty hard to find pics depicting a peaceful Iran as the search engines seemed to be geared to US sentiments and all you get are protests and bad news shit. Street scenes Tehran The other side of the coin is out there but you have to dig for it. In an attempt to "introduce more balance to the mainstream discussion of Iran," Counter Currents has published a quiz on Iran. It's a bit cumbersome at times, but it's good for more than a few important chin-scratching moments. Want to take the super-short version? Here goes (answers at the bottom of the post): 1. Is Iran an Arab country? 2. What percentage of students entering university in Iran is female? 3. What percentage of Iran's population attends Friday prayers? Source: Counter Currents Answers: 1. No, 2. Over 60%, 3. 1.4% Read more: http://www.utne.com/...n#ixzz1qDxNNbyP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stryper Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 Thanks LL, there actually is a bill in congress to prevent this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurisaz Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 Humble plug on the side: Mr Arthur Silber has had quite a bit to say on wars and saber-rattling during the recent years. There's lots of stuff on his blog but I took the time (over many quiet days at work) and I'd say it's a very good read. http://powerofnarrative.blogspot.de/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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