zach2000 Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 I grew up in the solipsistic south, in what once was a modestly sized suburban town before Hurricane Katrina descended and forced many people from the cities around New Orleans to move to the suburbs in nearby areas. Now there are churches on every corner there. I remember around that time (2005) I had already begun doubting the Pentecostal version of the Bible - the doubts began when I read Slaughterhouse 5 and realized America wasn't as great as I thought it was, bombing Dresden like they did for no apparent reason. Vonnegut got the ball rolling for me, so to speak, but it was Albert Camus' The Stranger which took me to the next level of inquiry (senior year of high school). As far as I was concerned until around that final year of high school all there was in this world was the Assemblies of God and the people I knew from my church (with the exception of a couple of school friends who were always "bad influences" on me according to parents and the girl I loved throughout high school and college). At 17 I discovered a musical artist who was a former A/G member, then expressing his myriad doubts about Christianity and a benevolent/judgmental God. This artist's name is David Bazan and I've since met him and let him know how much help his music has given me throughout the years. I recommend him to everyone, even atheists, because his music is all about searching for the truth. At some point God and the truth became two different things to me - it's hard to tell when, but it happened and despite all the pain it has caused me, I'm thankful that it did. Anyway, it took me several years to realize I no longer believed in God, a lot of drinking and smoking in the interval. After Katrina, seeing the devastation and the way black people (poor people in general, but mostly black people) were treated by the powers that be, I saw that God had no hand in any of this. John Ashcroft, whose father was the former president of Evangel University, an A/G college was the Attorney General then. I remember because everyone in my church liked him and we were told to pray for both he and George W Bush, two great paragons of Christianity (we were told). It didn't take me very long at all to realize that George Bush didn't care about poor people. It's funny because I agreed with Kanye West when he was standing next to Mike Meyers at that Katrina Benefit. Sure, he sounded nuts, but he was right - George Bush doesn't care about black people. I'm white and it was obvious to me. Ironically, a picture of Dubya hangs proudly in my dad's office, autographed too, but I've learned how to love my parents even after leaving the religion they burned into my brain from the time of infancy. They were doing their best and they were great parents and still are. Besides, they REALLY believe and put into practice the things Jesus said that I still agree with - humbleness, unselfishness, etc. Astoundingly, many people I knew back then thought the storm was a direct result of God's immortal judgment for the transgressions of New Orleans. I always disagreed... even when I thought God was up there caring about whether or not I agreed with "His people." Most of the people from my old church don't believe global warming is happening either, and they also always vote Republican, such a simple base to manipulate it makes me cringe. It amazes me how frustrated these facts still make me, even now, seven years later - - I don't keep in touch with any of these people, and losing some of them has been very difficult. My ex-girlfriend, and first love, couldn't handle my long-lasting depression over the loss of God. I can't blame her for that. Once I saw the light there was no hope for our love. She ended up at an A/G college and married a guy who resembles me just after she graduated... a guy who also attended that college of pure unadulterated indoctrination. I've since made peace with her and everyone really... I don't have anger towards her or the people I used to know, but I still miss the girl some nights I can't lie. Sometimes it does bother me though that they are so much happier than I am because of the lies they believe. But somewhere along the way I realized that we all believe in little lies (reading Cat's Cradle, another gem by Vonnegut, aided me in this department). Letting go of anger is very important to the "deconversion" process. I'm sure everyone here already knows that. Quitting God led me in many different directions, a mixed bag overall but I wouldn't have it any other way. There have been many adventures. I have a million stories about the Assemblies of God, some fond memories and others I'd rather forget but cannot. I tend to see many sides of issues now - even ones pertaining to my former beliefs. Life is very difficult for everyone. Turning to drugs isn't the answer, I've learned. The people who go down the "narrow path" do it because they have to for the sake of their own mental sanity. Many of them don't have the time or energy to challenge beliefs they have held for decades. I don't get upset or argue with them anymore. What's the point? I do avoid them though. I remember an old scripture verse (as a kid I loved memorizing the Bible) about how one man should not be a stumbling block for another. I don't want to bring about the pain of faith loss to anyone by dismantling their trite arguments. I've read elsewhere on this forum others expressing this same opinion and I applaud them for those efforts. Now, there are MANY Christians who are totally down for an intelligent debate/discussion and who ultimately concede the point that it comes down to faith, and I will talk to those Christians. I won't yell at them, but I will talk to them. If you ask me believing in God is all about Peace of Mind (fear of death, more specifically). It's also about community and networking... the average church has a plumber, an electrician, an accountant, an air-conditioning salesman, a pest-control man, a seamstress, etc. They create a microcosm and help each other through life. It isn't easy losing that network, but I guess that's what we have the real yellow pages for. I'm no longer afraid of death. I don't want to die at all, but when I was a Christian I was terrified of death. For those of you who do not know, the A/G congregation believes in a literal heaven and hell. They believe in the holy spirit and speaking in tongues and generally making a lot of noise during praise and worship. He who claps the loudest or jumps the highest is most spiritual. Thus, the human instinct of competition rings true in the Sunday morning congregations all across A/G America. I remember back in the day during services, there was a woman who banged a tambourine offbeat throughout the praise music. No one ever stopped her. It was such a distraction to me as a child, to all of my friends at church too. We made jokes about it... but that was her way of worshiping the Lord. There was a guy who always clapped offbeat to the songs. I played drums in church for years and it was nearly impossible to keep the beat with this old fart clapping the way he did. No one ever told him he was offbeat as far as I know, but I overheard parents talking about this guy behind his back all the time. Ah... gossip... another little turd I picked up on growing up in church. I used to look forward to communion because that meant it was the first Sunday of the month (that's how we did it at my church - first Sundays meant communion). It also meant I got to drink a shot of grape juice because our church was against alcohol entirely. Luckily I loved grape juice and still do, regardless of my godlessness. The first Sunday of the month also meant a big dinner after church for the whole congregation. It was at these dinners I would flirt with my girlfriend before she was my girlfriend, the girl I was certain God created just for me... Eight years of tumultuous back and forth... I was such a hopeless romantic as I lost my faith in God. I feel bad for all the girls that came and went during that time period... the people I hurt because I was hurt. I've apologized to everyone... that's all you can really do... apologize and don't do it again. I didn't know what kind of girls to go after in those years. I love women, but the only girls I knew were Christians... they were all so repressed! I was too... I see now looking back that I was never immune to my natural animalistic urges and none of my friends at church or their parents were either. We all tried to mask our true natures by speaking in tongues (i.e. gibberish) and giving each other side-hugs instead of having sexual intercourse like all of our friends at school were doing. I recall going to church camps in summer time and how everyone there flirted and tried to find boyfriends or girlfriends... It was ridiculous to think that we were any different from other human beings because we cried during altar calls, but we definitely thought this. I have some old friends who became missionaries and are supported financially by the A/G churches. They've created their own "Pentecostal Industrial Complex" if you ask me. Now they are out there "changing the world for Christ." Soon there will be Walmarts all over Africa because of them... not much has changed since the days of Columbus - since before then - in terms of the Christian mindset, but they are all so HAPPY with themselves... Obviously, I still have some bitterness about all of these things. Like others on this forum, I feel I lost a lot of years flopping around on the ground trying to speak in tongues, or begging God for forgiveness after masturbating as a teenager, a completely NORMAL activity that I would recommend for all teenagers to get to know their bodies... But I always felt TERRIBLE and had to go tell a youth pastor about it. We weren't Catholics, we didn't have "confession" in any little booth, but we did have "life groups" where many people shared their struggles and commiserated about how difficult it is to be "in but not of" the world. The funny thing is, I am still "in but not of" the world. I never quite fit in - I can talk to anyone and I have a general respect for human beings, but ever since leaving my old refuge of Jesus-loving I've never seen myself as one of the crowd. I like it that way anyhow. I have my strong connections with a few great people and that's all I need. I consider myself an egalitarian, an agnostic on the borderline of honest, but not militant, atheism. But classifications are useless in day to day life... living is the important thing... and I'm still learning to breathe, learning to crawl (remember listening to Switchfoot anybody? they weren't so bad in the early days for a Christian rock band)... I like the writings of people like Richard Dawkins, but crusading for atheism is not something that interests me. It sounds too much like the Christians I once knew thinking it was their responsibility to change the world. Now that sounds like classic narcissism to me. I don't want to change the world. I think the human race is doing the best that it can given all of the idiots in existence, and true change takes a very long time. I try to see things now from a wider perspective, a zoom-out if you will. We've come a long way since the days Jesus is purported to have walked the dusty streets of Jerusalem in his sandals, pausing to wash his disciple's feet here and there, taking a break from all that to be crucified and resurrected for all of mankind's sins. We've come a long way since the Dark Ages, since the Bubonic Plague, since even the germ theory was finally realized... since the dawn of the internet age... My advice to anyone suffering the loss of God is to begin studying history. No, there aren't any highlighted answers to any of those impossible questions in old dusty books you can find practically neglected in libraries, but there is a lot to know and not enough time to learn it all. You may as well get started... Oh, and exercise and enjoying nature and hobbies and relationships... Trying to enjoy one's livelihood is equally important (but I'm not there yet.) That's what my life is now. I'm a quiet guy with a lot of thoughts in my head. I've seen my circle of friends dwindle because of my lack of belief in God, but I no longer hold any grudges. Everyone's friend group changes as they get older as far as I can tell. The hardest part really has been learning to forgive myself for what I would call "wasted years" and put it all behind me. Luckily my parents go to a more mainstream church now which is basically more of a self-help seminar each sunday with bland rock music (sounds like Coldplay basically) on Sunday mornings. I do think that is a better alternative to flopping around like a fish on the floor or being "cast down in the spirit" after a message on tithing... One thing I have never been able to get over is all the money my parents give to the church... The church they go to now is building a TWENTY MILLION dollar auditorium next to their old building, paying IN CASH for this monument to the new prosperity gospel of the modern church... So it goes, Vonnegut would say... So it goes... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Positivist Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 Welcome to Ex-C, zach! What an insightful reflection on your deconversion! Sounds like you are in a good place in your life. I too struggled socially, unsure how to experience relationships without the veneer of religious belief. It gets better with practice and faking it, at least that was my approach. See you around Ex-C! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarahinprogress Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 My advice to anyone suffering the loss of God is to begin studying history. No, there aren't any highlighted answers to any of those impossible questions in old dusty books you can find practically neglected in libraries, but there is a lot to know and not enough time to learn it all. You may as well get started... Oh, and exercise and enjoying nature and hobbies and relationships... Trying to enjoy one's livelihood is equally important (but I'm not there yet.) I really enjoyed reading your decoversion story, it was so well thought out and orderly. I feel as though im so entrenched in my deconversion that my thoughts just fly all around and make no sense when i get them out onto the screen. Anyways, this bit struck me the most "exercise" because my father is....well, he's fat. He spends all day working then comes home and stays up until the wee hours of the morning studying the bible in most of his free time. He spends no time on himself and is pretty much slowly killing himself. How is studying yourself into ill health part of any kind of God's plan. Just a little introspection/personal appilcation. Thanks for your story! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LivingLife Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 Welcome Zach, I enjoyed your OP. Have no advice as my situation was much later in life (sadly) Plenty of younger folk walking away these days as they wise up to the scam. For old farts like me we can enjoy the fruits of our labours on the net and exposing the lies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zach2000 Posted March 27, 2012 Author Share Posted March 27, 2012 . It gets better with practice and faking it, at least that was my approach. See you around Ex-C! When you say faking it... do you mean faking happiness or faking that things are okay with you internally so that you can enjoy someone's company? or do you mean something else entirely? just curious... __ duckiegirl, I can sympathize with your interpretation of your father studying himself into ill health... Where I grew up I knew plenty of overweight Christians, and I always wondered how they did that considering their bodies are supposedly "temples of the holy ghost" and "cleanliness is next to godliness"... those sorts of old truisms. But I guess it's just further evidence that even a highly moralizing Christian can have tough issues they are dealing with, contradictions - - I think a good phrase for this is COGNITIVE DISSONANCE. We're all guilty of it, but it's even more obvious to us I think when I look at Christians because they seem so self-righteous that you might assume they should hold themselves to higher standards... At the end of the day, everyone's standards are different and I think people use religion sometimes to feel better about themselves when they are unhappy and feel trapped in their own bodies. ____ For old farts like me we can enjoy the fruits of our labours on the net and exposing the lies. We need old farts... It's good to have the voice of experience around... youth is wasted on the young, I always thought that back when I was a Christian bored when I wasn't out there having fun and doing the things I wanted to do because I was scared I would piss off God. I think any age to be freed from that kind of emotional oppression is a good age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thought2Much Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 Welcome, Zach. I am still stuck in the A/G, so I know exactly what you're talking about. I really liked the phrase "Pentecostal Industrial Complex." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Positivist Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 It gets better with practice and faking it, at least that was my approach. See you around Ex-C! When you say faking it... do you mean faking happiness or faking that things are okay with you internally so that you can enjoy someone's company? I mean I had to learn a whole bunch of new relational behaviors. Growing up in the church I was acculturated for those kinds of relationships and social contracts and customs and unwritten rules. The real world has a different set of rules, contracts, and customs, so I am trying to emulate others in adopting these as my own. Does that make sense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zephie Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 Welcome to Ex-C!! I'm from Lala land too but in Baton Rouge. It makes me sick when churches just build bigger buildings and it did when I was a xtian too. This one church I went to was purposefully split when we ran out of seats. The pastor told whoever wanted to go with the new pastor to another buidling they we repurposing could go. It was really revolutionary to me at the time to see a pastor not hold onto his congregation so tightly. He even let us speak the Sunday/Wednesday message as well if we wanted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chikirin Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 zach2000, I'm impressed by the mature perspective and equanimity that you've gained. I'm less further along the road than you, but you give me a good example to shoot for. I spent time in the AG during my college years. Nice people, but they can't really function apart from the organization. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackpudd1n Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 Hey Zach2000, I had to laugh a few times as I read your extimony. Doesn't seem to matter much where you go, you can count on the pentecostals being the same. I actually had to double-check your location, your experiences were so earily similar to my own. I agree with you about how losing the anger is an important part of the deconversion process. For some reason, I never really went through the depression that you and others have spoken about. When the shock of my complete and utter deconversion had passed, I realised I had found freedom, so now I spend time learning and reading. I have much to catch up on, because I took the bible so seriously. For me, life is just so much more amazing without god in it. Finally, welcome to Ex-C I hope you stick around Catch you later, Pudd 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thought2Much Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 ...but they can't really function apart from the organization. This. Oh my fucking god, this. The majority of the people at my church will go to my father in-law for advice and guidance about the absolutely stupidest things. It's as if they are completely incapable of independent thought and decision making ability. They will spend hours on the phone with him to decide whether to take a job, or whether they should buy a car or not. Why don't you call him up every morning and ask him what to have for breakfast, or which toothpaste you should use, for fuck's sake? Sorry. Got a little ranty there. As you were. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zach2000 Posted March 27, 2012 Author Share Posted March 27, 2012 It gets better with practice and faking it, at least that was my approach. See you around Ex-C! When you say faking it... do you mean faking happiness or faking that things are okay with you internally so that you can enjoy someone's company? I mean I had to learn a whole bunch of new relational behaviors. Growing up in the church I was acculturated for those kinds of relationships and social contracts and customs and unwritten rules. The real world has a different set of rules, contracts, and customs, so I am trying to emulate others in adopting these as my own. Does that make sense? Completely... I'm definitely still learning too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chikirin Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 ...but they can't really function apart from the organization. This. Oh my fucking god, this. The majority of the people at my church will go to my father in-law for advice and guidance about the absolutely stupidest things. It's as if they are completely incapable of independent thought and decision making ability. I think the reason for this is that Christians tend to look down on the concept of learning through trial and error. Christianity offers the temptation of a magical shortcut that circumvents trial and error. Which is a shame, because trial and error is the only way that any organism learns anything. In Christianity, if you make a bad decision, you get accused of not having prayed about it enough, and the repercussions are seen as God's punishment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Positivist Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 I think the reason for this is that Christians tend to look down on the concept of learning through trial and error. Christianity offers the temptation of a magical shortcut that circumvents trial and error. Yes! To be avoided at all cost is being outside of the will of God. If you buy the wrong car (make an error), you will be outside of God's will, and probably will get into an accident in that car, because it was your pride that made you buy it, and God will have to teach you a lesson. Or maybe buying that car will lead you to have an affair with your secretary; you know how one sin begets another once you are wandering away from God's will. Very dangerous business, this trial and error and being outside of the will of God. I was almost paralyzed by this type of thinking when I was a fundy. Every decision was overwhelming and I would pray about everything little decision. Now, decision making is much easier. What a fucked up belief system..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackpudd1n Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 I was almost paralyzed by this type of thinking when I was a fundy. Every decision was overwhelming and I would pray about everything little decision. Now, decision making is much easier. I never thought of that being the root cause of my indecisiveness. I'm definitely getting better at it, and definitely making decisions faster, but geez, have I ever struggled with some silly little decisions! thanks Positivist for bringing that to my attention! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Positivist Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 I was almost paralyzed by this type of thinking when I was a fundy. Every decision was overwhelming and I would pray about everything little decision. Now, decision making is much easier. I never thought of that being the root cause of my indecisiveness. I'm definitely getting better at it, and definitely making decisions faster, but geez, have I ever struggled with some silly little decisions! thanks Positivist for bringing that to my attention! I used to even pray about buying a $1 pen and what to do with my day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackpudd1n Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 I was almost paralyzed by this type of thinking when I was a fundy. Every decision was overwhelming and I would pray about everything little decision. Now, decision making is much easier. I never thought of that being the root cause of my indecisiveness. I'm definitely getting better at it, and definitely making decisions faster, but geez, have I ever struggled with some silly little decisions! thanks Positivist for bringing that to my attention! I used to even pray about buying a $1 pen and what to do with my day. lol I used to do the same thing. "What if god wants me to put that $1 in the collection plate? What if I'm preventing god from showing me how he will provide for me by buying that pen? Am I showing my faithlessness by buying this pen?" 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Positivist Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 lol I used to do the same thing. "What if god wants me to put that $1 in the collection plate? What if I'm preventing god from showing me how he will provide for me by buying that pen? Am I showing my faithlessness by buying this pen?" LOL!! This is such a slice of my life too! (For anyone reading this, please note that BP and I are both high functioning individuals. How could we have been such lunatics??? LOL!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackpudd1n Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 lol I used to do the same thing. "What if god wants me to put that $1 in the collection plate? What if I'm preventing god from showing me how he will provide for me by buying that pen? Am I showing my faithlessness by buying this pen?" LOL!! This is such a slice of my life too! (For anyone reading this, please note that BP and I are both high functioning individuals. How could we have been such lunatics??? LOL!) Christianity, particularly pentecostalism, seems to induce a special type of neurosis in its adherents. Exhibit A, myself, Exhibit B, Positivist. LOL 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zach2000 Posted March 28, 2012 Author Share Posted March 28, 2012 lol I used to do the same thing. "What if god wants me to put that $1 in the collection plate? What if I'm preventing god from showing me how he will provide for me by buying that pen? Am I showing my faithlessness by buying this pen?" LOL!! This is such a slice of my life too! (For anyone reading this, please note that BP and I are both high functioning individuals. How could we have been such lunatics??? LOL!) Christianity, particularly pentecostalism, seems to induce a special type of neurosis in its adherents. Exhibit A, myself, Exhibit B, Positivist. LOL WOW. I want to join that list as Exhibit C. Because I've been practicing writing for years (it's really my only outlet because I cannot afford a psychologist), I am able to seem like I have it more together than I do. Sometimes I still cry for apparently no reason. And of course, ever since I left the church and stopped praying and asking God for advice, I've become even more introverted and neurotic. Often times, I live inside my head completely and it's only something like stubbing my toe or almost getting hit by an SUV while I'm riding my bike that will bring me back to reality. Chikirin, I couldn't agree with you more about living by trial and error and learning from mistakes. For the longest time I believed in DESTINY... I guess one could even call what I believed in PREDESTINATION. Losing such romantic beliefs has been difficult to say the least, but I encourage everyone to try to take it day by day (interestingly enough, the Bible offers this same advice... only now the way I take things day by day is very different from the old way I did). I'm still learning self-reliance, but even in my elementary years as an ex-christian (7 years "unborn again" and counting...), I find it more satisfying to take responsibility for my own mistakes instead of trying to pretend like there is some kind of hand of destiny trying to teach me lessons about my place in the universe. Truth is, as far as I can tell, the universe is indifferent to us. Of course that doesn't mean we should be indifferent to it. Really we are all lucky that we were born in the first place - it just as easily couldn't have happened due to so many unforeseeable factors. So here we are... All of your replies have been affirming and I think the value of this forum is becoming more and more apparent to me. Keeping the deconversion process bottled up is just another way of waiting for the world to end. That's another thing that always gets me, and I've read about this bothering others around the forum... this obsession with the END TIMES that began in the Bible which they will be using to get into people's wallets until Jesus comes back... oh, wait. Jesus isn't coming back. What an ingenious con started by people who have been dead for a couple thousand years and counting... How many different versions of the Bible have they put out on the market... I don't even want to know but ZONDERVAN is making oodles of cash. I WONDER IF THEY TITHE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zach2000 Posted March 28, 2012 Author Share Posted March 28, 2012 ONE more thing that always bothered me about the emphasis on PROPHECY in the A/G Church (which is really all I know of Christianity)... Self-fulfilling prophecies don't count as prophecies... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spherr Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 That's another thing that always gets me, and I've read about this bothering others around the forum... this obsession with the END TIMES that began in the Bible which they will be using to get into people's wallets until Jesus comes back... oh, wait. Jesus isn't coming back. What an ingenious con started by people who have been dead for a couple thousand years and counting... How many different versions of the Bible have they put out on the market... I don't even want to know but ZONDERVAN is making oodles of cash. I WONDER IF THEY TITHE. That obsession about the end times...I know all about that too well. My church had a Sunday School class about the Rapture and Tribulation that lasted 6 months. i didn't attend it, but my dad said they kept saying the same thing over and over AGAIN! Heres my question: if the Christians would be raptured up to heaven, why the heck are they worrying about the tribulation? They won't be here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zach2000 Posted March 28, 2012 Author Share Posted March 28, 2012 That obsession about the end times...I know all about that too well. My church had a Sunday School class about the Rapture and Tribulation that lasted 6 months. i didn't attend it, but my dad said they kept saying the same thing over and over AGAIN! Heres my question: if the Christians would be raptured up to heaven, why the heck are they worrying about the tribulation? They won't be here! Because it's morbidly amusing to them I think to imagine all the suffering of the people who didn't follow the proper god... it's the ultimately "TOLD YA SO!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackpudd1n Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Zach2000 is now officially Exhibit C Ugh, end times. I hear enough of that still. My grandpa's daughter is constantly jetting off to Israel to keep up to date with recent "end time developments". What a waste of time and money. And I get to hear all about these trips through grandpa. Ugh. So far I've managed to keep my mouth shut, but I've a feeling that one day I'm going to let the cat out of the bag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
♦ ficino ♦ Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 ONE more thing that always bothered me about the emphasis on PROPHECY in the A/G Church (which is really all I know of Christianity)... Self-fulfilling prophecies don't count as prophecies... I remember how the A-of-G was all agog over Dave Wilkerson's "Vision" of an imminent return of the Lord in around 1973. What a crock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts