Astral Travel

[nebula]

Does anyone have any experience with lucid dreaming or out of body experiences through meditation? I've been listening to this guy, "Multidimensional Man" and it's really interesting. I'd love to be able to do this because I want to visit my dead cat.

 

 

http://www.multidime...fter_death.html

 

 

[Antlerman]

This is an area of some interest to me, but I don't buy into the interpretations I see in the link to the guys site. I practice meditation where it is normal for me to do what could be understood as astral projection. Please note my careful choice of words. Why I say "could be understood", is because I do not believe there is some literal dimension that one goes to, in the sense as would be understood literally as in a mythological plane where literal gods and the literal dead exist. That "plane" however is an aspect of our own consciousness in which we transcend normal waking consciousness and 'see' and experience reality in a highly symbolic dimension of our minds. It is the mind interpreting a conscious exposure to that awareness of the subconscious that is always a part of us, perceiving and interpreting reality to us through dream and visions. In other terms, our minds are constantly in touch with the world in ways that don't register immediately to our cognitive brains. Our consciousness is constantly aware of the world through our evolutionary past, the archaic consciousness, as well as the inherit potentials we express and attempt to represent as part of our emergent consciousness. Attempt to represent, being the key words.

 

All that technical explanation to say, we are experience those aspects of mind that see both before and beyond the cognitive mind, but naturally using symbolic representation. They are a different plane of mind that we come into direct contact with through the waking mind. This is why it is said, and I say as well, we are fully awake. We are not dreaming. We actually "go there" in our minds and have direct experience. But the 'there' is really a pulling back of the veil to experience the mind's tapping into the primal soup of what emerges as reality to us, as well as it emerging potential within us. Everything I read in his article linked to takes a mythic-literal interpretation. We literal transcend to literal realms of literal gods, etc. We literally leave the body and literally travel there. I don't see it that way.

 

There is a subtle but profound difference in meaning that becomes very difficult to put into words, which all that technical attempt to above can only maybe make sense understood looking at it from a place of having had actual experience. The first time I 'went there', my thoughts were "I can see why people who see the world in mythological mind would interpret these as literal encounters with the literal gods!". It's really actually very profound, to say the least, and my saying they are not literal in no way diminishes that. In fact, understanding them as I have attempted to explain, for me make the experience of these, what is seen, what messages it coveys, etc, is incredibly profound and enlightening. Incredible insight comes through this. We are those gods. They are a symbol of ourselves which we are trying to awaken to within ourselves. That is absolutely profound, and the symbols, that transcendent symbolic realm, that "astral plane", as the neo-platonists called it, is our mind moving beyond the immediate perception of the world through symbolic mind, into a transcendent experience of self beyond that, into a place of higher, or awakening mind.

 

Everything in this guy's articles, and other popular views of this that speak of it literally, is understanding it through a mythological framework. It externalizes it. There are real gods out there. You go to real places out there. It's all outside us. That's mythological thinking. That what mythic-literal mind does. God in the sky. The dead in heaven. As we develop our waking conscious mind, we begin to see that the line between out there and in here, becomes blurred, and in fact indistinct. He is still seeing it as out there, outside himself. His mind interprets it in a mythic-literal way as a literal plane or dimension outside himself that he is opening a door to. They really exist as literal planes out there to him, and so the rest is his way of interpreting the experiences within that general mental framework.

 

Was that confusing enough for you?

[♦ ficino ♦]

My parents belonged to Self-Realization Fellowship, founded by an Indian swami, Yogananda, in the 1920s (I think, or maybe the '30s). Y's book, Autobiography of a Yogi, was sort of my bible when I was a teen and looking for a big world and life view. Y. talks about four realms and treats them literally: the physical, the astral, the causal, and the absolute, for which he had many names but I guess God will do. He also talks about the soul and reincarnation "literally," i.e. there is a hidden substance of "you" that retains its identity after it leaves the body. Y describes experiences of his own soul leaving the body, and he talks about reincarnation to the astral world, the causal world, and, after successive incarnations in which the indiv. soul becomes more and more advanced, eventually achieving union with God. He even talks about parts of the astral world where the wicked work out their evil karma.

 

I don't know whether Y. was a literal/mythic thinker in Antlerman's sense, whether he was accomodating more sophisticated understandings to the level of the western, Christianized mind, whether he was just a charlatan, or what. SRF claims that Y. decided to leave his body after a banquet in LA, i.e. "mahasamadhi," the realized master's act of departing in soul from the body permanently. They say his body remained incorruptible for a month and publish what they say is a copy of the coroner's report substiantiating its incorruptibility (was Y. in fact just not dead?).

 

I was always raised to believe in a literal astral world. After I became a Christian my x-tian ideology dictated that I interpret all SRF's stuff as a combination of "it's all in their head" and demon possession. Now, as far as I know, it's all in the head. I don't know whether Antlerman's take on how it is "all in the head" is the best expl., but he's had lots of experiences with these things.

 

Anyway, fascinating topic...

[Antlerman]

Y. talks about four realms and treats them literally: the physical, the astral, the causal, and the absolute, for which he had many names but I guess God will do.

These are terms I'm familiar with in slightly different words reflective of the realms of higher consciousness: Psychic; Subtle; Casual; Nondual. Apparently how Y. speaks of these he sees them as 'out of the body', that you leave the physical behind, I don't see that at all. I believe these are levels of conscious mind experienced in the world. Is that mystical? Well, yes. The world is more than what appears to us. I don't call any of it supernatural. It's the experience of the real world in purity of conscious mind. As such reality is not as appears to our minds presently. That is only an interpretation, a partial truth.

 

Y describes experiences of his own soul leaving the body, and he talks about reincarnation to the astral world, the causal world, and, after successive incarnations in which the indiv. soul becomes more and more advanced, eventually achieving union with God. He even talks about parts of the astral world where the wicked work out their evil karma.

All of these are archetypal symbols of that higher awareness. They are the world we experience as an individual on the subconscious level that we are always aware of but don't know how to process these on a cognitive level. When we step outside that busy mental processing of our reasoning, it opens that other awareness to us, and those objects of mind take symbolic forms. The wicked or visions of hell or suffering, are representative of our own internal processes towards that higher self-realization. It's a way for the subconscious to speak to the conscious.

 

Is there any real mystical realm that our minds are tapping into? I'd say that is true in the sense that we are not just flesh and bone, but truly connected to the entire universe, physically and mentally and spiritually. We arose from the Universe itself as body and mind, and we are all made of the same stuff. So what all are we 'tapping into'? That. Our minds become aware of the transcendent nature of ourselves as that Universe. We are God. All these manifestations in symbolic mind are expressive of that to our present conscious mind in its evolutionary path from slumber to Buddha mind, or Christ Consciousness; Satori, Awakening, Enlightenment. At that stage, all symbols disappear. There is no more mediated reality, but full faced Knowledge. Gnosis.

 

don't know whether Y. was a literal/mythic thinker in Antlerman's sense, whether he was accomodating more sophisticated understandings to the level of the western, Christianized mind,

Well, that is true that some will try to put it in terms the Western mind relates to, which would be some externalized mythological realm. In fact, a lot of what is called New Age religion in the West is really basically a type of Experimental Christianity. It still treats everything the same way the Christian sees God and the world as separate realms, but instead of praying to God to answer prayers, now it's a different symbol: the Universe. Rocks possess magical properties that you can tap into for healing, as opposed to recognizing the magic is in you and the rocks are simply symbolic vehicles to tap into your own wellspring of healing. Etc.

 

The whole East meets West craze, which this sounds part of, never really shifted the mindset itself. It just replaced external symbols without internal awakening. Yes of course they experience valid spiritual experiences, but the understanding of it was some external magic that the Universe holds and we need to cross over into the beyond to get, rather than pulling back the veil of our own minds in order to see what simply is, always already fully present, always ours.

 

So is Y. a charlatan? There was a lot of that going on then, gurus selling their wares to hungry Western audiences. I saw a program on NetFlix streaming awhile back you might enjoy seeing. It's called Shortcut to Nirvana. Yes, there are a lot of gurus who are just spiritual salesmen, the more sensational the better response to paying customers. Do they have any legitimate truth to what they say, yes, but the focus is sort of messed up. They drive in big expensive cars, some are morally depraved, etc. You have to look at the whole package and not judge on simply them saying the right words. It is possible to have fantastic transcendent experiences and insights, and be morally at 12 years of age.

 

I was always raised to believe in a literal astral world. After I became a Christian my x-tian ideology dictated that I interpret all SRF's stuff as a combination of "it's all in their head" and demon possession. Now, as far as I know, it's all in the head. I don't know whether Antlerman's take on how it is "all in the head" is the best expl., but he's had lots of experiences with these things.

 

Anyway, fascinating topic...

As far as the "all in the head", well of course it is. Everything is that we in our minds see as reality. We live inside our heads. This is just opening the head to see reality as more than those immediate constructs we create through language and culture in an evolutionary path from infancy to enlightenment. If it is not 'real' because it's in the head, then nothing someone calls real now is either.

[♦ ficino ♦]

Yes, there are a lot of gurus who are just spiritual salesmen, the more sensational the better response to paying customers. Do they have any legitimate truth to what they say, yes, but the focus is sort of messed up. They drive in big expensive cars, some are morally depraved, etc. You have to look at the whole package and not judge on simply them saying the right words. It is possible to have fantastic transcendent experiences and insights, and be morally at 12 years of age.

 

 

yes, do you remember Guru Maharaj Ji? Eventually his own mother booted him out.

[stryper]

At the risk of look like Ron Paul

 

http://library.truthloveenergy.com/Michael-Teachings/dreams-and-symbols-1-of-3/

 

 

 

[a1] On what level does lucid dreaming occur?

 

[Michael_Entity] ALL levels. It can occur on any level. Lucid Dreaming is an umbrella term. To be LUCID simply means you are conscious while on the level of dreaming being experienced. There are levels in which it is more difficult to attain this state, particularly the Instinctive PART of the Instinctive Center. Although, ironically, this is the first level to gain notoriety for lucidity due to its bizarre landscapes.

 

[Noggy]

I lucid dream quite often.

[nebula]

I practice meditation where it is normal for me to do what could be understood as astral projection.

 

I lucid dream quite often.

 

I have to start working on this stuff STAT. I've never meditated before but I'm trying it now using meditation soundtracks with headphones.

[Antlerman]

I practice meditation where it is normal for me to do what could be understood as astral projection.

 

I lucid dream quite often.

 

I have to start working on this stuff STAT. I've never meditated before but I'm trying it now using meditation soundtracks with headphones.

The thing with meditation I should qualify that results may vary. What I experience is not what everyone will. It's very individual. Plus the other thing I should add is that you have to have a relatively stable psyche. If you are depressed or have any sort of mental illness such as schizophrenia, meditation might be a bad thing for you. The mind could misinterpret what it sees and they could become dangerous messages. I've only been meditating a short time of just over six months, but I've been on this path of exposing the deep for over 30 years. It was just the missing piece for me that blows the roof off it and opens the whole thing up for me. Again, results may vary. Don't look for experiences. Simply seek to still yourself, gently.

 

As to the guy referenced in the OP, this Multidimensional Man, without digging too deeply into his whole mythology, I do not doubt he has experiences, but before when I referenced the sorts of messages that come to his mind, I would say he may have some factors in those areas. He sees these as very literal and creates a sort of mythology out of them as factual. The types of things I saw him refer to as lights and whatnot, are common for me. I may interact with these types of things mentally in those states of consciousness, as I in fact do as part of that Insight meditation - they are vehicles of focus that allows insights to arise to you from that deep subconscious mind, but my mind does not focus on them as some dimensional reality as objects that exist in that plane of reality. Best stated, they are objects that arise in that state of consciousness.

 

In fact in meditation, that sort of 'astral plane' experience is not the highest reality at all. You eventually move beyond those sorts of symbolic objects and all symbols disappear. I describe it as "heaven is no more". "Heaven" moves into you and becomes you. It is no more to be found anywhere, but you are that. God dissolves into you. You are God. You are fully awake, fully aware, but not as you began. It is now just clear mind, and every object of the world arises as a singular truth. There's really not good words for it, but the point is it is not about the experiences. It is not about seeking to go surfing with the gods. They are vehicles of self-knowledge towards awakening.

 

I just thought to add this quote I read from a Sufi mystic a while back. I like his description of what this is like:

 

“There are lights which ascend and lights which descend. The ascending lights are the lights of the heart; the descending lights are those of the Throne. The false self is the veil between the Throne and the heart. When this veil is torn, and a door opens in the heart, like springs towards like. Light ascends toward light and light descends upon light, and it is ‘light upon light’.

 

When each time the heart sighs for the throne the throne sighs for the heart, so they come to meet. Each time a light ascends from you, a light descends toward you. If their energies are equal, then they meet halfway. But when the substance of light has grown in you, then this makes up a whole in relation to what is in the same nature in Heaven. Then, it is the substance of light in Heaven that longs for you, and is drawn to your light, and it descends toward you. This is the secret of the mystical journey.”

 

9th Century Sufi mystic, Najim al-Din Hubra

 

That describes what I said very well. This to me is beyond astral projection.

[SoftIce]

I've attempted lucid dreaming before. I ended up with funkier dreams than normal, but never to the point where I became aware I was dreaming. I would start having dreams of attempting to pass through a barrier of some sort, though, which I have never had before. The 'barrier' was usually invisible, and it felt like I was trying to float through a heavy force pushing me backwards. If I did break through the barrier, I would end up in a compeltly different dreamscape. Once I remember I broke through it and the next thing I knew, I was floating above a dock with many sailboats. It's a very surreal feeling.

 

I've also played with the idea of astral projection. I remember once I tried it and failed. I've only ever looked at this stuff on the internet, and not interacted with others on the subjects.

 

I find the idea of lucid dreaming super interesting.

[Noggy]

lucid dreaming usually happens for me when I wake up in the middle of the night and fall quickly back into a REM sleep. a normal dream will start and I'll just realize I'm dreaming. the dream world will start to fade away and I have to concentrate and center myself so I don't wake back up. Sometimes the lucid dreaming can last more than an hour or so. I've been to the moon, and inside the earth, and had sex with my astro professor. Lucid dreaming is the shit. I'm pretty sure it's just my age, though, it seems to happen to guys in their late teens/early twenties.

 

i specifically remember always being nervous over whether something is a dream or not. I keep going "am i going to bang my super hot professor or not?" If it was a dream, it was going to be awesome, if it was real I was going to be fucked. Most of the time my dreams aren't 100% lucid, which means I am not really entirely self aware. I don't really know how to explain it, but in the situation i just described above, i probably should've realized that I could just make a cow appear in front of me if I was dreaming, but i didn't. I was too busy stressing. oh wells.