FlorenceHami Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 Hi everyone. I have been a lurker on this site for a long time before joining and signed up a long time before posting. The reason is that I have never been even nominally Christian. I was born and raised mainstream Jewish. I got very little formal training, but we did celebrate the major holidays. The neighborhood my family lived in was predominantly Jewish which gave me a very strange view of the world. When I was in college, I fell in love with a Catholic boy. I graduated and followed him to another state for graduate school. My parents disowned me. They told me that if I choose him, that I was dead to them. For two years, I was estranged from my parents. At the end of the two years, I was vulnerable and ended up breaking it off with my love in order to become a part of my family again. I married a man who was Jewish and proceeded to have 3 fabulous children. However, the guy was both physically and emotionally abusive. After 14 years of marriage, I took the kids and got out. I was so demoralized that I did not realize that I accepted escalating abuse because in fact, my parents were deeply emotionally abusive. I gave my children both more religious training and more religious tolerance than my parents gave to me. They have each chosen their own paths in that regard. That is a topic for another day. I love them unconditionally. I don't think i ever really analyzed my feelings about the Abrahamic god the majority of my life. I did not read any version of the bible on my own, including the tanach...the hebrew 5 books of moses or old testament. I was content to just take my understanding of all world religions in the way they are presented to the popular culture. I was really cumbaya about the whole thing and did not realize that the god of the bible destroyed my life. Then I moved to South Carolina. Everyone was very very Christian and very very conservative Protestant. I decided to study Christianity. I read the KJV Bible and also my own English Translation of the Hebrew bible. I compared the translations in the old testament between them. I researched online and in real time about the beliefs of christians of various denominations. I read European history about how the various slight differences caused wars and divisions, made and destroyed royalty. I understood the motivations of coming to America for religious freedom in a whole new way. As a child, my history lessons were sanitized American history and the history of the Jews in the Old World (A viewpoint which paints ALL christians including Catholics with one broad brush). As I studied the bible, new and old, I became more and more horrified by the things that I learned. Calvinists actually think that babies who die go to hell because they have not accepted Jesus? The Jews who were savagely murdered in the Inquisition are going to hell, but their Inquisitors are not? WTF? I spent a fair amount of time feeling almost as threatened by christianity as my crazy ass mother who disowned me. And then... I studied pre-Abrahamic religions. I found a great website called "POCM" Pagan Origins of the Christ Myth. You should all check it out. It is totally awesome. But it forced me to do one last thing... Look at the religion of my birth. I really thought about the things the Hebrews were told by their god to do to other people. I read about a petty, jealous god who said he knew everything but did not know that Adam and Eve would eat the apple or that Cain would Kill Abel. Well, shoot, how can humans sneak stuff on god if he knows everything?? I spent most of my life doubting. I no longer doubt. The Abrahamic god is a pagan god. Just like the gods before him. And frankly, I loved those stories too, but a never believed them even a little. It all came clear. There may be some glue that holds the universe together. But is certainly is not the Abrahamic god. That is the short version of my de-conversion, such that it is. I was converted from Judaism to Atheism by studying Christianity. And that is why I am here. Flo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freeasabird Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 Thanks for sharing your story. Welcome aboard, you are in good company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stryper Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 ex-jew...ex-christian... ex-muslim....doesn't matter. we accept people based upon their actions not what ex they are. religions differ little between them. WELCOME!!! you're among friends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galien Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 What a long and convoluted journey. Sorry to hear that your marriage was so painful. Sounds like you are finding yourself. Welcome Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 Thank you for sharing your story. And thank you for the awesome website. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackpudd1n Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 Welcome to the site, Flo I think it's great that you have come here. I think the only thing that matters is that religion affected your life negatively, just like the rest of us here. And now you've left it. Like us ex-c's. So, you belong here Have you told your parents about your atheism yet? If so, how did they react? Hope to see you around, love Pudd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlorenceHami Posted April 4, 2012 Author Share Posted April 4, 2012 Thank you all for such welcoming reponses. I was not sure how you guys would respond. Actually, I had a seond marriage that was even mre disastrous than the first. People really are attracted to their mothers. It turns out the my mother is a borderline presonality disorder. She has a Jewish persecution issue that mixes with her mental problems in a weird and paranoid way. A question that often came up at the dinner table whan I was a kid was, "Are you more Jewish or more American?" I was a kid who lived in a Jewish neighborhood, bur went to a public school. By Junior High, my classmates came also from other neighborhoods and I thought it was just a weird question. I never really paid the question any mind. I should tell you that I am 52 years old. About 4 years ago, I was having dinner with my parents. It was September 11th of that year. My dad talked about how he had served in the Army and how horribly the events in 2001 affected him. I served in the Air Force. I was completely devastated. My mother started crying like a baby. She said she failed because we both love America more than "our People". It was a very bizarre moment. Some time after that, my father told me that he did not believe in god. He does find comfort in Jewish ceremonies and customs. My mother thinks it is a "phase" because in her mind I am still just a rebellious and troubled teenager. My "coming out" as an athiest was not really dramamtic. My mother and brother have painted me to be a troubled woman who cannot get her life together. Now I will tell you more about myself to put this in perspective. It is true that I have had two failed marriages. One was to a Borderline personality and another to a full blown Narcissist/Sociopath. (I wonder how that happened? ) I have lived in several places around the country and have lived and loved well. I am currently single. I have three children who are all adults and have advanced degrees themselves. I am very close to my children. They are my best friends even though we all live hundreds of miles apart. I am a physician. I have grown and run my own practice. I spent 2 years serving the poor in South Carolina. I am vert respected in my profession. After my marriage to the second husband, I was very damaged emotionally and economically. I have built myself back from the gound up. I do have difficulty letting people get close to me. My mother thinks I am a troubled and rebelious teenager who has lost her Judaism because I am mentally unstable. She has ben married to my father for 53 years and is therefore the stable one. She has a insular view of the world based on religion and she is the one who is right because her life is stable and she sees mine as unstable. Yes, I would say that religion has been used to emotionally abuse me and that in many ways, it has been successful in doing so. I did NOT do that to my own children. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackpudd1n Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 Hey Flo, I can definitely empathise. My biological mother is a psychopath/sociopath. They're charming people, aren't they? (Sarcasm intended.) Ironically, my mother won't admit her jewishness, but she's right into Jews for Jesus. Ugh, those people drive me nuts. My mother does the same thing to me, especially because I have bipolar disorder. So, of course, everything is in my head, she was always the perfect mother, and I'm just crazy and really should be "pitied" because I am "unwell". My biological mother also used religion to abuse, control, and manipulate my sister and I. She's doing it to my sister even now- sent her an email the other week, about how it was "dishonouring to christ" for them not to be reconciled. Well, my sister and I have decided to start proceedings for the Australian version of a restraining order. She needs to respect our right to decide who is and who isn't a part of our lives. (I started a thread on it- it's here if you'd like to have a look: http://www.ex-christian.net/topic/50929-the-time-has-come-standing-up-to-my-abusive-mother/page__fromsearch__1 ) You don't have to worry about being believed here. Not by me. I know what it's like, trust me. I'm just glad you did decide to join. We're here for you Love, Pudd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrsRoper Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 Thank you so much for sharing your story. I share in your struggle with your mom, I have a similar issue with mine. Glad you felt comfortable enough to share here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Positivist Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 I was converted from Judaism to Atheism by studying Christianity. Welcome, Flo! Your story fascinated me. When I was a Christian (my whole life up until a few years ago) I always struggled with the Jesus divinity thing and the concept of the Trinity. I tried so very hard to ameliorate my hideously substantive doubt (as a Christian, it was terrifying having these thoughts). As a potential remedy for my Trinity issue, I seriously considered going Jewish many times! I have always respected the Jewish people and as a fundy, kind of revered them with awe. However, the God of the OT seemed, well, a little scary. I also struggled with the role of women in Judaism. So, I persisted in my doubt...... The whole thing came undone for me a few years ago and I am finally at peace as an atheist. Still, if someone comments on my "Jewish nose", I say "Thank you!" and it's a huge compliment. (I realize people shouldn't say things like that, but I'll take whatever I can get!) Welcome to Ex-C! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConureDelSol Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 Your story is pretty unique, yet it also strikes a chord with many of us! Many here at Ex-C were Christians until we studied and actually read the Bible, like you. However, most of us haven't come from Judaism. I think you'll be able to add a very interesting viewpoint in some of our discussions! The whole pagan thing and realizing that Jesus' story was not unique at all also were what ultimately made me decide Christianity is bull crap as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 My mother thinks it is a "phase" because in her mind I am still just a rebellious and troubled teenager. My "coming out" as an athiest was not really dramamtic. My mother and brother have painted me to be a troubled woman who cannot get her life together. My mother thinks I am a troubled and rebelious teenager who has lost her Judaism because I am mentally unstable. She has ben married to my father for 53 years and is therefore the stable one. You seem quite intelligent. I find that people who refuse to accept your progress will always make an excuse that tries to tear you down. Most religions will do that, train people to be negative. I think they are projecting their condition on you. They need to get their life together, not you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eugene39 Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 Flo, I enjoyed reading your story and am certainly glad you posted it. On my way out of Christianity, I took a long look at Judaism ( or I guess for me, Noahism ), since Christianity was "sort of founded" on Judaism, and still thought at that time that perhaps there was divine revelation. Eventually, I drew the same conclusion as you have, and find it absolutely abhorrent that the three biggest religions in the world could be founded upon a guy whose great act of obedience was the almost completed act of murdering his own son, just taking Genesis for what it says. Anyway, welcome to Ex-C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlorenceHami Posted April 5, 2012 Author Share Posted April 5, 2012 You have all been really great. I was a little bit nervous about asking to join this group because I come to a very similar place in terms of deity from a slightly different place theologically. But I have been a lurker for more than a year. You don't realize it, but you all helped me to understand Christianity better and to sort out all of the inconsistencies in my own head. Also, I have also been living in American popular culture which is heavily influenced by Christianity. It was hard sometimes to be Jewish because that was different. When I lived in South Carolina, I told people I was Jewish. It got me out of having to go to church on Sundays and it gave me the religious credibility they seemed to need me to have. Anyway, thank you for being so welcoming. Flo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FeelHappy Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 I'm so sorry about your hard travels, glad you came around though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
♦ ficino ♦ Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 Many thanks for posting your story, Flo. I'm glad that you're here. I too relate to parental use of religion to justify various forms of abuse. I'm glad that you and your children have good relationships! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator buffettphan Posted April 5, 2012 Super Moderator Share Posted April 5, 2012 Welcome to Ex-C! I really like that "POCM" Pagan Origins of the Christ Myth website too. Lots of good info there! Being an ex-christian - or any other ex-religion - can be a lonely experience, so I'm glad you joined Ex-C. I think of this place as my sanctuary and bit of sanity (reality!) in the midst of my crazy christian southern US life! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
♦ nivek ♦ Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 Flo, Feel quite welcome to find your spot here at ExC. Neat group of folks from all walks of life and world wide. Think "fellow travelers". My Mom's family save for her Dad are still Orthodox in life and practice. My Gdad, one of twelve siblings was the only one who "left the family tribe, went secular". Still observed diet and some traditions, but didn't care what and where about attending... I was raised with some seriously mixed messages about religious affairs with my parents and Gparents' "testimonies". Futtawukkup.. Takes some time to sort out where you want to go and chart course to get there. BUT you now have options that do not involve some three piece suited or black robed whore telling you how. Again, feel Welcome to participate and enjoin with our little Community. kevinL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zephie Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 Welcome to Ex-C! I've been browsing through POCM. Thankies for the recommend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akheia Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 Hello and welcome! I'm glad you're here and that you shared your extimony with us. I really admire how far you've come and how rational you sound. I hope you travel with us for a good long while POCM has booked my day solid. Thanks for the link. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rain Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 Hi Flo, i was not religious beyond the age of 10 but maintained the idea of a god for many years until I started to read about christianity, and all the contradictions in the christian bible. The more I read, the more I am convinced there is no god. Welcome to the real world ! rain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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