Please Give Me Guidance, Crisis Of Faith, Brainlock.

[Smokey4352]

G'day, (If this is not the right place to put this please put it somewhere else and PM me cheers)

 

My name is Smoke and I am having a crisis of faith. I never really have been a full on Christian, just kind of felt there was something there but I don't know what. I have always seen the hypocrisy of most churches (except Anglican, I can accept them), my wife is a full on born again Pentecostal bible believing Christian and we are going through a rough path because I suffer from a mental illness - OCD which makes it even harder for me to attend church. I get negative evil intrusive thoughts things like 'you have committed the unforgivable sin against the holy spirit' and 'god wants you dead if you do X' (usually X is something positive) and 'If you ever leave Christianity you are a gonner because it was god that is keeping you alive' etc. It never ends and makes having a faith REALLY hard, how do you know if it is god talking to you or just the mental illness etc.

 

During the bad time in my marriage recently my wife would go to church every night and ignore me. She would kick me out of the bedroom to read and pray with her bible. I thought she was righteous but I found out last night that 6 months ago she cheated on me. I feel empty in side and feel like she is a hypocrite. I must admit I have associated her treating me back with Christianity but I don't know if that is fair because although her pastor is a pentecostalist he is a friendly fair man that doesn't try to rip your money off like other penticost churches. He did say that my OCD is spiritual and may be a demonic torrent though. I am almost %100 sure that OCD is a brain disorder of unknown origin.

 

I had a massive crisis of faith and everything when I read this site on a man that I dislike intensely telling a Christian OCD sufferer that her OCD is not a mental illness it is 'bunk' and that it is because she is looking inwards and not towards god. "http://www.behindthebadge.net/apologetics/discuss221.html"

 

So anyway I tried to be a faithful Christian but I just felt worse and worse and received more biblical threats in my head. The only thing that made me feel better is reading this ex-christian site??? Including sites on bible contradictions. Because being rational is the ONLY thing that keeps me sane due to mental illness. I imagine rationality would be even more important if one had schitzophrenia.

 

So this is what I don't understand, there seems to be SOMETHING to some forms of christianity, there is something positive for some people but the bible just doesn't add up? There are contradictions in it and lies - have you been to the site 'god doesn't heal amputees'? There are TWO amputees missing limbs at my wifes church and they are very faithful and go up the front for healing but they still are missing legs. They is a down syndrome kid who gets prayed for every sunday for years and although they say praise the lord he is being healed - he still looks and acts the same to me. My wifes parents are the most christ like people you could ever meet and I love to go and visit them - they are not hypocritical except for the homosexual hate thing. My wifes mum had a serious anyrism and almost died about 10 years ago and the hospital pretty much almost cured her except she still slurs a tiny bit but has a better memory than most - they said it was because she was miraculously healed, but would she be healed if it wasn't for the hospital work etc? It took 1 year to rehab her. I have met heaps of other christians that have had terrible stuff happen to them. I was actually worried that something terrible would happen to me if i joined the church.

 

It clearly says in the bible that you will be healed if you pray!! Something just doesn't add up, I am SURE there is something to Christianity but what is it? What about all the child molesting priests in all denominations and the batshit crazy denominations like Jim jones church that killed his congregation. What about the the flirty fishers congregation - MAKING WOMEN PROSTITUTE THEMSELVES FOR FREE TO CONVERT PEOPLE TO THEIR CHURCH AND JESUS????? The IRA, how would god allow those things to happen?

 

So I am sure there is SOMETHING but I don't know what. The only unexplained 'miracles' I have seen in my life has been synchronicity on a few occasions. Coincidences that are SO FREAKING improbable that it is a joke. I have had a few of these and they are mainly positive, not really related to the church or anything. Carl Jung talks about these things. I would love to one day get to the bottom of this and go with any religion that explains them.

 

My two questions are -> Can anyone give me advice on what I am experiencing and advice on which direction to take? Have you been through this?

 

and

 

when you left Christianity and either went athiest, agnostic or some other religion - did anything bad happen to you etc like the bible and Christians say if you dare leave? Or did things improve?

 

Thanks for any guidance

[Smokey4352]

Oh yeah I forgot to add, Christianity threatens unbelievers with HELL. I had another crisis of faith years ago - If the bible doesn't talk about the concept of a soul or believe in it, how can someone perceive heaven or hell when they are dead because we know that the brain is what is needed to think and perceive - how can you do that without a brain in the ground when you are dead? A pastor told me that one day when jesus returns all the faithful will be physically RESURRECTED out of the ground even if cremated and heaven will be here on earth? People have been waiting years for this to happen and there have been 100's of false predictions.

 

How much faith would be required to actually believe that is going to happen, that millions of faithful will be resurected like zombies and come forth from the earth. I have NEVER seen or read anything (credible) of physical Resurrections. That kind of faith to believe that would be LOGIC DEFYING TURN OFF YOUR BRAIN ALMOST COMPLETELY FAITH. So basically if we don't have that faith we go to Hell.

 

Also why are there other religions? Which one is right? And why if someone is never exposed to the bible or christian believers they are NEVER aware of it, if it was true wouldn't there be some sort of signs and miracles all over the world, people seeing angels and demons, getting spoken too by Christs spirit when they don't know who he is etc (this is a weaker argument but you know what I mean). I wish I could of edited all that into my posts... please advise..

[Positivist]

Hey there, Smoke!

 

You have come to the right place. Most of us have been where you are at. We looked at Christianity a little deeper and things just did not add up.

 

For starters, these sites are great:

http://whywontgodhea...es.com/god5.htm

http://whywontgodhea...ur-delusion.htm

http://debunkingchri...visualized.html

 

Look around these as well as Ex-Christian; many people have some great advice!

 

As for OCD, I used to have intrusive thoughts as well as a believer, mainly around committing the "unforgivable sin" or worrying that God will punish me for something minor I did. I had to ask forgiveness every time a nutty thought passed through my head. Also, I was afraid of inadvertently "speaking something into being". OCD is NOT a demon issue; it is a psychiatric issue related to anxiety. (Don't let the word "psychiatric" bother you; you're not crazy--it just means it relates to how you think.) Since leaving Christianity, I no longer have these thoughts.

 

Here is more on OCD:

http://emedicine.med...934139-overview

 

I am furious that anyone would imply it's of demonic origin. I have known many individuals with this "disorder"; it tends to worsen in times of acute stress, but is completely manageable through anxiety control and self-talk. And deconverting!

 

Keep us posted. I have to run at the moment but please stay at Ex-C! It's a great group and we welcome you!

[LivingLife]

During the bad time in my marriage recently my wife would go to church every night and ignore me. She would kick me out of the bedroom to read and pray with her bible. I thought she was righteous but I found out last night that 6 months ago she cheated on me. I feel empty in side and feel like she is a hypocrite.

You know this is key. If your wife cheated on you there are two possible reasons, you perhaps fail as a husband or she was flattered by some dude with an alleged anointing. The latter I have seen with xian women as the "anointed" men tend to be more assertive.

 

With where you are and your obvious disbelief, the fact she cheated, I dunno, maybe the first step is parting ways if there are no kiddies involved.

 

All of xianity and the bible is BS and a mind fuck. Fear and fairy tales is all they have to offer and do not live in reality.

[3DollarBill]

There's nothing there. Quit telling yourself there is. Even the supposed positive messages of Christianity: love, forgiveness, etc are contradicted by other "messages."

 

All that stuff you wonder why god allowed to happen...it's because he didn't. He ain't there.

 

You sound like you're terrified about what will happen to you after leaving the faith. I don't blame you...the stuff you learn in church scares the shit out of you. It's meant to. And I'm telling you right now that you will feel better if you just go ahead and admit you don't believe it.

[Bebas]

Hello, i finally signed up to this website, after being a lurker for half year.

 

Hello Smokey, i also suffered chronic insomnia and a bit of ongoing OCD for about two years. But now I can declare myself as completely healed , after being a lurker and fanatic reader of Ex-C.

I stopped my medication for about a month... a full month no sleeping pills and anti-anxiety pills . ...it's because, i read lots of super quality advices of all the people here. Very intelligent and informative. All the writings and sufferings of the authors feel genuine and in-depth.

 

I'd like to give you links on this readings bellow... those made me certain and 100% sure that christianity is a bogus.

 

http://new.exchristian.net/2011/08/14-problems-with-christianity-part-i.html

http://new.exchristian.net/2011/09/14-problems-with-christianity-part-ii.html

 

 

Good luck with your own searching, Smokey. I hope you'll find freedom of thinking and liberating spirit..

[Blue elephant]

Hi Smokey

 

There are other Australians on the Ex-C forums and they will give you a slightly different perspective on church and giving away all the nonsense that the christian religion goes on with. There are quite a number of ex-christians who have ongoing problems with OCD here as well. I am sure they will introduce themselves to you without me naming them.

 

Just my observation about the folk with OCD here - they seem to go through times when they have to wheel it all out again and worry about all the hell stuff and the 'what if it's true?' routine even though they have already gone through the process of rationally examining all the reasons why it cannot be true at least half a dozen times.

 

OCD is a mental disorder. It seems to be quite hereditary and it is treatable - best treatment is probably a combination of some medication and perhaps therapy such as Cognitive Behavioural Therapy. Look up Obsessive Compulsive Disorder and Scrupulosity in Wikipedia.

 

Please don't make apologies for the behaviour of people that call themselves Christians (including your wife). It is more accurate to judge people by their behaviour than by their good intentions or their words.

 

Most of what you have said about your wife says to me that she is not helpful or supportive to you at this time. It must be hard to cope with the idea that she has been unfaithful. Think hard about whether she is providing support and companionship to you. Would you treat her like she has treated you?

 

If there are no children involved, think carefully about this relationship.

 

I asked myself the hard questions about Jesus and the Bible back in 1981. I decided that there were too many holes in the story for it to be the truth. After that I went through about 6 months or a year where I was firgtened by the idea of hell. But then it all got better.

 

Good luck in your search for growth and happiness in life.

[centauri]

...It clearly says in the bible that you will be healed if you pray!! Something just doesn't add up, I am SURE there is something to Christianity but what is it?

Many things about it don't add up and the more you look into it, the more problems you'll find.

At some point, at least for me, the whole rotten structure comes crashing down.

I realized that Christianity was a form of revisionist theology that used the Hebrew scriptures to launch itself, but it was not in harmony with them as I had been told.

(i.e. it is no more the word of God than a classic comic book)

 

The vacuum that was left after that "revelation" was extremely depressing.

That was the worst part of my experience, the realization that I had been duped and manipulated into a state of denial which dulled the senses and numbed the brain.

After some time, a sense of relief filled the vaccum because I was not longer a slave to the acquired beliefs I had accepted earlier.

 

A parable by Vernon Howard, a western spiritualist, sums up the experience:

 

COLORFUL PACKAGES

 

Student: I am afraid to question my acquired beliefs.

 

Teacher:

Don't be afraid to see that you have been cruelly deceived.

A hungry man asked some officials for bread.

With many smiles and sympathies they gave him several packages with colorful wrappings, assuring him he would never be hungry again.

On the way home he could feel that the weight of the packages was not right for bread, so opening them, he found stones.

Something in you can feel the difference between truth and falsehood, but you must courageously open the packages.

You will then see how easy it is to throw away useless stones.

 

...when you left Christianity and either went athiest, agnostic or some other religion - did anything bad happen to you etc like the bible and Christians say if you dare leave? Or did things improve?

Things improved because it taught me to employ critical thinking and to observe human antics from an objective viewpoint.

As a result I became an agnostic.

Christianity is simply human antics dressed up and advertised as divine revelation.

Independent thought is the great enemy of such belief systems.

That's why such huge amounts of money are spent to indoctrinate people and keep them as "sheep".

 

Keep in mind that if the Old Testament Bible is indeed the word of the Hebrew God, then Christians are in very deep trouble.

This God doesn't take kindly to those that pervert his word and use it to launch a pagan religion that contradicts his basic teachings.

[FeelHappy]

I say don't just take anyone's word on it here or at your Pentecostal church, but do research yourself. Perhaps read one rational non-believer followed by one whom is pentecostal.

 

Anyways, I grew up WoF Pentecostal and was in the fold for 27 years. I watched my grandfather die earlier than he should because he wouldn't go to the doctor because doing so would be to confess the sickness on himself and not have faith in god. I watched my older borderline brother go through hell and lost his marriage because he was told that the only thing wrong with him was a demon, whereas its really was a mental illness, he couldn't understand why god wouldn't heal him (sadly he also died early).

 

I personally believe that WoF Pentecostalism is one of the most dangerous religions out there, it kills more people than you can imagine. Its a dangerous cult.

 

Perhaps even look at sights like this one:

http://www.masskids....=161&Itemid=165

http://www.christian...wly-died-56743/

http://en.wikipedia....owers_of_Christ

http://www.ama-assn..../19/psa0919.htm

 

I mean seriously if god really healed these things wouldn't you expect to see the death rate lower not higher in faith healing people?

 

But like I said continue to do the research for yourself.

 

Christianity is perfect at keeping people in the fold, if you question anything its satan attacking you, not your own intelligence. Think for yourself I say. Surely if god is true then he can handle close reasoning and come out the victor.

 

 

As for your question, I've left the fold a few years ago, not paying tithes has actually INCREASED my wealth not decreased it, I haven't lost a job but have gotten raises, I don't have any problems and any problems that I have are my own fault, not a curse from god.

[freeasabird]

 

and

 

when you left Christianity and either went athiest, agnostic or some other religion - did anything bad happen to you etc like the bible and Christians say if you dare leave? Or did things improve?

 

 

5 months after I became an atheist I got the biggest raise of my life. Another 6 months after that I got a major promotion.

 

My outlook on life has improved. My outlook on other people, especially those who are different from me has improved. My family life has improved. My marriage has improved. Need I go on?

[FeelHappy]

You know the pentecostals say that god says "test me on this" in regards to tithing. I say he commands it, why not test him on it. If your tithing then you should be experiencing blessings, if your not then you should be suffering.

 

I say test god this way, put whatever you tithe into savings every month, if a car breaks down or something you're afraid of, pull the money out of savings (but only for unexpected expenses), I'd be willing to bet in the end of 6-12 months you'll have more saved than you spend on random repairs (which you would have had anyways), yet you won't have to worry as much about them.

 

I remember the first time I didn't tithe I thought I was going to lose my job or my truck would implode, nothing of the sort happened. Furthermore, look at how unreligious the wealthy are (I know blanket statement, I mean overall), you'd think god would punish them more than he does.

 

I understand the fear though the pentecostal will say on the opposite test (not tithing), do not test the lord your god, but when he wants you to title its "test god in this", just another way to cause you to fear more than you should. Its a pretty good way to keep you in the fold, although I get saddened when I realize so many people actually believe their lies.

 

Same way with someone getting a minor problem healed its god doing it, whereas the down syndrome boy god refuses to heal, they say "do not question god, who are you to question god", I say its pretty apparent god can do not wrong with them, if they get healed its god when they don't (most of the time), its just not gods time or gods answer is no. Please tell me a good reason why a down syndrome boy should suffer, they say they don't know because there isn't one, god isn't healing them because he's not healing anyone. Believe me, I'd love for god to really be there and heal our afflictions, but lets face it, it doesn't happen.

[Positivist]

I personally believe that WoF Pentecostalism is one of the most dangerous religions out there, it kills more people than you can imagine. Its a dangerous cult.

 

Here is an article by a physician who actually looked into the supposed healings:

http://www.quackwatch.com/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/faith.html

No one was healed. Ever.

 

I have a friend, a very gifted evangelist, who was a missionary for years with a prominent ministry in which people were supposedly healed. When the adrenalin wore off and the buzz was gone, everyone went back to their usual sick, limping depressed selves. This experience opened her eyes and she became agnostic.

 

I have never seen anyone healed either, not even of invisible stuff. I do have an aunt who just died of cancer; she was waiting on God to heal her (WoF Pentecostal) and she died before she even saw her first grandson.

[Positivist]

I remember the first time I didn't tithe I thought I was going to lose my job or my truck would implode, nothing of the sort happened.

 

....just another way to cause you to fear more than you should. Its a pretty good way to keep you in the fold...

This is exactly it. The fear of hell, of punishment, of catastrophe, etc. keeps us in the fold. We are too afraid to leave. When I became an atheist I really thought God would notice. He didn't care. He's not even there. The world didn't stop turning or anything.

 

Smoke, you have to feel comfortable with your beliefs but it may take a while for the fear to die down. It's like leaving a cult.

[Zephie]

 

 

My two questions are -> Can anyone give me advice on what I am experiencing and advice on which direction to take? Have you been through this?

 

and

 

when you left Christianity and either went athiest, agnostic or some other religion - did anything bad happen to you etc like the bible and Christians say if you dare leave? Or did things improve?

 

Thanks for any guidance

 

I haven't been through what you have; however, I can say that my life has improved. My mental state has improved. As a Christian I was depressed to the point of suicide several times. However, upon leaving the faith I have more peace, I enjoy life more, and I am a more confident person. How got me through those tough times? I did. God wasn't there and has never been there. Sure I still have rough days, who doesn't, however, they are made better by knowing that there are things I can do about them like get medical help and realize that there isn't a demon inside me, etc.

[florduh]

In my experience, good and bad happens regardless of whether or not supernatural beliefs are held at the time.

 

To try to see a correlation between random circumstances and any religion du jour is an error.

[par4dcourse]

There is no problem so deep that inventing a spook-guide will help.

Look at your situation as if you were looking at someone else, giving advice to a friend. What would you advise him?

Welcome to the forums, Smokey.

[florduh]

Aside:

 

Nice picture, Par. Alfred E. Einstein, right?

[ConureDelSol]

I'm just curious, why do you accept Anglicans versus other forms of Christianity?

 

Like others have said, I think you need to take a long, hard look at your marriage and determine whether it's worth remaining with your wife or not. From what you've told us, it seems like she is contributing to your OCD. Believe me when I say that you are not the first to come from a Christian background and have traumatic OCD. I won't say it's common, but it most certainly isn't rare either. Churches prey on those with mental disorders. They want you to think something is wrong with you and that God is the only way to make things right. So then you begin volunteering and spending all your time in the Bible and in the church. Unfortunately, more often than not, this ends up in you spending the rest of your life (however short it turns out to be) being a slave to the church. I know I sound a little dramatic, but this is what's happened to my father and other people I love.