An Open Letter To My Christian Friends

[ToonForever]

Hi all. Some of you have seen my runaround with my friend Rick on this forum. I had another very interesting set of exchanges on Facebook with several friends. I had been working on an open letter to express some of my frustration with these conversations. In the wake of the Battle of Easter, I decided to finally finish it up. Here it is. Your thoughts and criticisms are welcome:

 

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An Open Letter to My Christian Friends:

 

Dear ones:

 

I write this today to express a few things that have bothered me in the course of my deconversion. This will be an imperfect and incomplete expression of my thoughts. It’s the best I can do for now.

 

This was probably brought to a head over Easter when I responded to a posting by a Christian friend which mocked non-believers

 

with a post of my own.

 

Not skillful, I admit, but here we are. So many of the issues raised and explored when one leaves Christianity can become endless conversations charged with emotion. Eternity can do that to a discussion. I confess that I have at times been less than skillful in my communication. I’m certain I’m not alone in that failing.

 

When I began this blog, not so long ago, it was never my intention to convince anyone so much as explain what led to my abandonment of Christianity, as well as to explore it myself in detail. The questions I had that led me to this decision are many and detailed. Obviously I think that the questions, and their answers (or lack thereof) are substantial enough to abandon Christianity as a viable worldview and belief system.

 

I feel the need to write this because, instead of addressing the very specific philosophical, historical, anthropological, scientific, and literary questions that led me to this point; my motivations, methodology, personal integrity, intelligence, and overall worthiness have been questioned, denigrated, and even attacked, sometimes in pointed detail, by some of you I consider, and would still hope to consider, friends

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There are a few key aspects of being an ex-believer which, if I am able to communicate clearly, might help us focus on the content and the philosophy, rather than the perceived conflict of motivation.

 

First – I did not leave Christianity: so I could sin/because I’m mad at God/because other Christians hurt me/because I wanted a change of scenery.

 

None of the above. Period.

 

It had next to nothing to do with any sort of personal behavioral preference. What little relation it may have had was just the opposite – during my exploration I wished to make a positive change I could not apparently achieve in my devotion to Christianity.

 

I wasn’t mad at god. I’ve never been mad at god. When I believed in god, I was always mystified how anyone could be mad at god. I mean, if he’s god, he’s – well – god.

 

No Christian ever hurt me very deeply until after I gave up my belief. The hardest part of leaving Christianity was leaving behind friends who, for the most part, have always been very good to me.

 

I didn’t want a change of scenery. I will say, however, that a change of scenery motivated me to take a very hard look at the faith I’d followed unquestioningly for 26 years.

 

This is not the first time I have clarified these points. Yet I have been accused of all of these, occasionally with some offensive specificity. You know who you are.

 

Second - I did not decide to leave god, then try to justify my position.

 

When I realized where my questions were leading me, I clung to god. I explored every question from both sides, hoping I could find a way to resolve what I saw (and still see) as unsolvable problems with Christianity without having to lie to myself about what I found. In the end I could not. After exploring thoroughly, I abandoned my belief. But to be clear, I did not “leave” god. That would imply that there is a god there I have actively abandoned. That is not the case. I looked behind the curtain and found there was nobody there.

 

Third - I do not think I’m smarter than you.

 

It is not a matter of intellect. It may be that I have been more willing to explore the issues intellectually than some of you are. That is not a value judgment. That is not one being better than the other. I have begged several of you to directly address the specific issues that led me to abandon my faith. On this very blog and in offline conversations I have laid out many of my reasons in clear detail and offered ample opportunity to have them questioned, explored, and even refuted. Why would I do that? Because I’m certain that all of you are reasonably intelligent, as I’m certain I am reasonably intelligent, and I think we can dialogue on facts. Yet I am met mostly with obfuscation, insults, questions of my character, speculation of my motivation, and simple refusal to engage with the material at hand.

 

Fourth – My non-belief is not an open invitation to judge or disparage my character.

 

I suppose this is related to my first point, but I’ll say it anyway. This has become a terrible habit among some of my Christian friends when engaging with my personal expression about what I believe and do not believe. You accuse me of being bitter, angry, egocentric, an attention whore, and more, all the while ignoring the content of my expression.

 

The Easter posting is a perfect example. It had a very particular message about the nature of sacrifice. Of the long comment thread accusing me of being bitter and expressing anger that I should sully their special day with my own personal expression, only two comment touched briefly on the actual point made; one saying they’d never thought of it that way, the other finding it humorous. I don’t know if you’re afraid of the conversation or if you disrespect me so much you’d rather just insult me than engage. Honestly, unless you are able to intellectually engage with the questions I ask about the faith, I’m not really willing to engage with a dissection of my personal motives or morality.

 

Fifth – My thoughts about my Christian experience are not attacks directed at you personally.

 

They are simply my thoughts about my Christian experience. That’s all. As I examine my life as a Christian I see turning points and decisions that I would have made differently. I see ways in which my biblical mindset influenced me in ways that I now deem negative. I also see the opposite. I see ways in which my Christian past influenced me in ways that are positive no matter what mindset one would have. These are my thoughts about my life. If you disagree with my assessment of these decisions, you’re free to say so, but taking personal offense at the way I assess my life decisions is overstepping boundaries.

 

Sixth – Skepticism is not a belief system.

 

No matter how some of you wish to argue it, an attitude of skepticism of any claim is simply a requirement that a claim be proven to a reasonable extent before being accepted. Whether your claim is about Jesus, Allah, Vishnu, Mithra, Horus, the universe, the afterlife, human origins, evolution, what color your car is, or the spirituality of eating a peanut butter sandwich, I only expect that such a claim be supported with evidence that any reasonable person can verify independently. I only expect that each party will admit when they don’t have evidence to support their position.

 

I only ask that you understand the difference between holding a specific belief system that has no evidence to support it and holding a position of open-mindedness that will accept a conclusion reasonably supported by evidence.

 

I may no longer believe in the god you worship, but I only do so in the absence of any reasonable, verifiable evidence to the contrary. Should you be the first to produce such evidence, I will gladly change my mind. That is not a “belief” system. It is actually a method of examining belief systems to determine if they are worth believing. It is not a position that makes any positive claim except that truth should be evident. It is a refusal to invest in any set of claims for which there is no reasonable evidence. It is a starting point only. I don’t know how many other ways to say it, but I do know at least one of you will insist otherwise and use repetition in place of evidence.

 

I’ll say it again – I will accept your claim if you present it with reasonable, verifiable evidence.

 

Seventh – I do not want to deconvert you.

 

I really don’t. I’m more than happy to have Christian friends. You who are my friends through church I would still consider my friends outside of it. Perhaps you don’t feel the same way. Perhaps you perceive that my deconversion is a threat to your continued belief. I can’t help that. All I seek is for you to respect my viewpoint and lack of belief with the same respect you demand for your beliefs and your expression of them. This is severely lacking on the part of many of you. This is also much in evidence on the part of others of you. At the same time as some have gone on the attack, others have messaged me to apologize for you who have attacked, and we had the chance to express mutual respect for our individual journeys.

 

What I seek is that you recognize that our individual expressions of belief will often conflict. If you wish to ignore these expressions, that’s fine. If you wish to engage about them, even better. But, as expressed above, I expect you to engage with mutual respect. I expect you to respect my intelligence, as you would expect me to respect yours. I expect you to engage about the topic rather than make unwarranted accusations about my motivation or disparage my moral character.

 

I do not want you to change your mind about being Christian. I do want to change your mind about something, though. I want you to accept that, while you may be sure of your beliefs, there are a good 5 billion people who think you’re wrong, many of whom are at least as certain of their position as you are. I want you to accept that maybe, just maybe, you could be wrong, if even you think you’re not. I want you to treat me as an intellectual equal, not as someone blinded and unable to think for himself. And just in case you think I exaggerate, that is pretty much a direct quote from more than one of you.

 

Of course, accepting that someone who doesn’t agree with you might have a point might be a deconversion of sorts in and of itself. Maybe that’s just a bridge too far. But it’s the only way we’ll be able to engage in constructive conversation. If instead you insist on battering me with bible verses, disrespecting me and my viewpoint, and pointedly refusing to engage in the actual question at hand, then I don’t know what to tell you. Maybe we’re not friends anymore.

 

I hope that’s not the case. I leave it in your hands.

 

Thanks for listening.

[Chikirin]

 

 

Fourth – My non-belief is not an open invitation to judge or disparage my character.

 

 

I like this one best

[Muse77]

Discussing chriistianity with christians, as a nonbeliever, is bound to get one dumped on in some way, shape or form. To show excessive preference for one's own race, politics or religion while expressing intolerance for any other is bigotry. And such behaviour is not only rampant, but encouraged within many churches and sects of christianity. Oh, you've left the church and your beliefs? Why you must be blinded by satan!!! Pfft! Could it be the christians who are blinded, who can't see past their bible thumping ways to live in peace and tolerance with a world that outnumbers them greatly, and offers love, compassion and companionship on a greater scale than I ever saw in church? Yet they insist that those outside the church are the bad guys? I don't get it..... but there are none so blind as those who will not see.

[florduh]

Very nicely composed. Too bad it won't mean shit to a fundy.

[ToonForever]

Very nicely composed. Too bad it won't mean shit to a fundy.

 

To you and Muse - you're right for the most part. I've only managed to stay well connected with a couple of my committed Christian friends. The rest of them don't really know what to do with me. When I got on this site and posted my first extimony on the main blog, it was about my frustration with friends. I think it was WizendSage who simply commented, "Time to find some new friends."

 

I think the letter was more for me. I wanted to take the high road and give them every opportunity to be grownups. Some of these are people I've walked a lot of miles with through some good times and tough times. It's worth it to at least open the door. The rest is up to them

 

Thanks.

[mcdaddy]

Very nicely composed. Too bad it won't mean shit to a fundy.

 

+1,000,000

[Overcame Faith]

Hi, Toonforever, from what I have read, you seem determined to post something to your friends. I have no problem with that, of course, if you feel it is something you should do.

 

Generally, I like what you wrote. The only suggestion I would make has to do with your sixth point, that skepticism is not a belief system. In reading what you wrote, I think your main point gets somewhat obscured with your discussion about what is and what is not evidence, sometimes using the phrase "reasonable evidence" and sometimes using only the word "evidence" (as in there is no evidence). I think your main point should be exactly what your title of the sixth point suggests and not to get bogged down in a discussion of whether they have evidence to support their positions. In light of that, see that section which I quoted below along with what I recommend you remove which I think will make your point that much stronger.

 

Just a suggestion.

 

Sixth – Skepticism is not a belief system.

 

No matter how some of you wish to argue it, an attitude of skepticism of any claim is simply a requirement that a claim be proven to a reasonable extent before being accepted. Whether your claim is about Jesus, Allah, Vishnu, Mithra, Horus, the universe, the afterlife, human origins, evolution, what color your car is, or the spirituality of eating a peanut butter sandwich, I only expect that such a claim be supported with evidence that any reasonable person can verify independently. I only expect that each party will admit when they don’t have evidence to support their position.

 

I only ask that you understand the difference between holding a specific belief system that has no evidence to support it and holding a position of open-mindedness that will accept a conclusion reasonably supported by evidence.

 

I may no longer believe in the god you worship, but I only do so in the absence of any reasonable, verifiable evidence to the contrary. Should you be the first to produce such evidence, I will gladly change my mind. That is not a “belief” system. It is actually a method of examining belief systems to determine if they are worth believing. It is not a position that makes any positive claim except that truth should be evident. It is a refusal to invest in any set of claims for which there is no reasonable evidence. It is a starting point only. I don’t know how many other ways to say it, but I do know at least one of you will insist otherwise and use repetition in place of evidence.

 

I’ll say it again – I will accept your claim if you present it with reasonable, verifiable evidence.

 

P.S. I thought your phrase, "or the spirituality of eating a peanut butter sandwich" was quite funny and offers some levity in the conversation.

[ToonForever]

Hi, Toonforever, from what I have read, you seem determined to post something to your friends. I have no problem with that, of course, if you feel it is something you should do.

 

Generally, I like what you wrote. The only suggestion I would make has to do with your sixth point, that skepticism is not a belief system. In reading what you wrote, I think your main point gets somewhat obscured with your discussion about what is and what is not evidence, sometimes using the phrase "reasonable evidence" and sometimes using only the word "evidence" (as in there is no evidence). I think your main point should be exactly what your title of the sixth point suggests and not to get bogged down in a discussion of whether they have evidence to support their positions. In light of that, see that section which I quoted below along with what I recommend you remove which I think will make your point that much stronger.

 

Just a suggestion.

 

Sixth – Skepticism is not a belief system.

 

No matter how some of you wish to argue it, an attitude of skepticism of any claim is simply a requirement that a claim be proven to a reasonable extent before being accepted. Whether your claim is about Jesus, Allah, Vishnu, Mithra, Horus, the universe, the afterlife, human origins, evolution, what color your car is, or the spirituality of eating a peanut butter sandwich, I only expect that such a claim be supported with evidence that any reasonable person can verify independently. I only expect that each party will admit when they don’t have evidence to support their position.

 

I only ask that you understand the difference between holding a specific belief system that has no evidence to support it and holding a position of open-mindedness that will accept a conclusion reasonably supported by evidence.

 

I may no longer believe in the god you worship, but I only do so in the absence of any reasonable, verifiable evidence to the contrary. Should you be the first to produce such evidence, I will gladly change my mind. That is not a “belief” system. It is actually a method of examining belief systems to determine if they are worth believing. It is not a position that makes any positive claim except that truth should be evident. It is a refusal to invest in any set of claims for which there is no reasonable evidence. It is a starting point only. I don’t know how many other ways to say it, but I do know at least one of you will insist otherwise and use repetition in place of evidence.

 

I’ll say it again – I will accept your claim if you present it with reasonable, verifiable evidence.

 

P.S. I thought your phrase, "or the spirituality of eating a peanut butter sandwich" was quite funny and offers some levity in the conversation.

 

Thanks I'll make that change on my blog. I struggled with that section.

 

I know this is a low ROI piece. It's more for me than anything. It's really easy for people who don't know the people involved to just say "Fuck 'em" - and I know how they feel - I do often feel the same way. But they're friends for a reason, and I owe it to myself and what they mean to me as people to try, or to have at least made the effort.

 

In the end, we'll see that Florduh was mostly, if not completely, right on...

[ConureDelSol]

Very nicely composed. Too bad it won't mean shit to a fundy.

 

To you and Muse - you're right for the most part. I've only managed to stay well connected with a couple of my committed Christian friends. The rest of them don't really know what to do with me. When I got on this site and posted my first extimony on the main blog, it was about my frustration with friends. I think it was WizendSage who simply commented, "Time to find some new friends."

 

I think the letter was more for me. I wanted to take the high road and give them every opportunity to be grownups. Some of these are people I've walked a lot of miles with through some good times and tough times. It's worth it to at least open the door. The rest is up to them

 

Thanks.

 

Just a thought. From now on, whenever someone decides to attack you or your character like you've described, you should simply post a link to this blog post in the comments directed towards the offender. I don't know if this is going on Facebook or whatever (where comments and blog posts disappear in the blink of an eye), but that would help to make sure all your friends see and remember what you've asked of them.

[ToonForever]

Very nicely composed. Too bad it won't mean shit to a fundy.

 

To you and Muse - you're right for the most part. I've only managed to stay well connected with a couple of my committed Christian friends. The rest of them don't really know what to do with me. When I got on this site and posted my first extimony on the main blog, it was about my frustration with friends. I think it was WizendSage who simply commented, "Time to find some new friends."

 

I think the letter was more for me. I wanted to take the high road and give them every opportunity to be grownups. Some of these are people I've walked a lot of miles with through some good times and tough times. It's worth it to at least open the door. The rest is up to them

 

Thanks.

 

Just a thought. From now on, whenever someone decides to attack you or your character like you've described, you should simply post a link to this blog post in the comments directed towards the offender. I don't know if this is going on Facebook or whatever (where comments and blog posts disappear in the blink of an eye), but that would help to make sure all your friends see and remember what you've asked of them.

 

Good idea. It's going on my extimony blog, which I then post a link to FB