Hi! New Here. My Story.

[Mitzer]

Greetings to all...this is my first post! I've been lurking here for several months and signed up about a week ago. (lol...maybe I shouldn't be writing this now as I just woke up, and I'm a little groggy!) I've read several posts and I'm intregued with many of the similarities between my experiences and others. I thought an introduction and "testimony" would be best before I made comments on posts...seems the proper thing to do (not being judgemental on anyone who did it different.)

I was raised by loving parents, the third child of four, the only son. I had a good childhood. My dad was a busy man always doing things around the house...this needed fixing...that needed something done. He was a remarkable man who built our house basement up, plumbed it (including driving a well), wired it and built all the cabinets from scratch. He did mechanical repairs on our cars. No, we didn't live way out in no man's land. We lived in the outskirts of one America's biggest cities. He was just industrious and by doing things himself he could save money plus the pride of "doing it yourself" was important to him. He told me a couple times "son, whenenever I saw someone doing something I'd always watch how they were doing it. That's a good way learn." But as a kid I didn't take his advice. I never stuck around watching him do whatever task he was doing. Lol...playing was more important to me.

Both my parents were of Slovac descent. They had a strong tie to their heritage. They maintained speaking slovac as many of our friends were members of our church, which was started by Slovacs.

My mom was a great homemaker. My mom was the typical stay at home mom, as was the case as my parents started our family in the early 40's. She canned much of our food (we always had huge vegetable gardens and an orchard, which was always planted by the faze of the moom, thanks to the trusty Old Farmer's Almanac). She baked all our bread. Before she married my dad she was an au pere for a family that was in the one percent. She occassionally cooked for them. She was a fantastic cook, cooking things like standing crown roasts, souffles, crepe suzette, etc. for us to enjoy.

My parents were religious, but not fundamentalists. We were Lutheran. Church and Sunday school every Sunday and feasting for holidays, prayers before all meals. Other than that, talk of religion or God or Jesus wasn't discussed much at all. Oh, we had discussions, don't get me wrong...it just wasn't a regular thing and didn't happen often.

I loved dinosaurs (my parents even bought me toy figures and models of them), movies about space and movies like Journey To The Center Of The Earth, Jason And The Argonauts, Sinbad's Seventh Voyage, never a clue from my parents that any of this was wrong or against Jesus/God/religion.

I wasn't much into sports, neither was my dad. He never watched any sports on t.v. (except for the winter olympics, which I also enjoyed watching with him). He was usually reading something in his spare time rather than watch t.v. The area I was raised in was a small neighborhood and there was only three other guys around my age...one two years older, one one year older and one one year younger, so sports weren't part of our playing, other than just shooting baskets or playing catch once in a while.

When I went into puberty, I found I wasn't interested in girls. I was getting crushes on guys. I kept it a deep, dark secret hoping and thinking I'd grow out of it. By the time I was in my middle teens I think I knew those feelings were permanent. I didn't want to be gay. I tried praying. I prayed so hard. I couldn't figure out what it was that God would do this to me. I wished I could grow up normal and have a family, but it wasn't gonna happen. i became withdrawn because all the other guys were talking about girls, about their crushes and fantasies and they just didn't resonate with me. I felt so different I became nearly friendless, yet never discussed it (who would back in the early/mid 60's?). I wondered how this all figuered in with God. I wrestled with it for years, decades. I wasn't so different from any of the other guys except the fact that I didn't like girls...why the hell was that?

So, I met a girl in high school in a group I started hanging out with (the summer before my senior year). We became good friends and I told her about myself when I started college (commuter university). So I was able to at least lead a somewhat normal life, in that I had a "girlfriend". Turns out she had designs on me, and I think she thought she could change me...even though I made it clear to her we were just friends. Yeah, maybe that was kind of lousy of me...but this was 1967 and things were just starting to change. I told her many times, if you meet a guy...go for it. You don't have a future with me. I appreciate your friendship, but that's all it will ever be.

I finally came out in 1974. i felt as out of place...even maybe more so...than in the straight world. I didn't like being called "Mary" or some other girls name. I was a man, not a "pretend" woman. I didn't like acting like a girl. I didn't hold it against the other gay guys...it just wasn't my way. I questioned why I didn't fit in anywhere, thought about God and wondered what the heck kind of God would do this to someone. I figured, hey, I tried asking God what was right or what I'd done wrong. It's his job to show me one way or the other, so I'll just hang loose until that day comes. Never did.

I finally became an atheist in my 40's. I thought, this is a real world. We learn what we do from science in a fair and just way. We evolved (I always believed in evolution, even as a christian), we live, we die. That's it.

Then at 58 (five years ago) I had a heart attack and flat lined three times. The first time I flat lined I had a NDE. No hell, no judges, no punishment. I know this doesn't sit well with a lot of science (or Christians!). Wouldn't have sit well with me before the fact. But, what happened, happened. And that's kind of the way I look at things now. "Believing" isn't the answer. Honest research is.

Thanks for letting me tell my story! Peace and Love to all.

[Blue elephant]

Welcome to Ex-Christian, Mitzer.

 

Stick around. There are lots of friendly people here, all trying to make sense of their live following the religious indoctrination they were brought up with.

[LivingLife]

Welcome and I hope you are OK now health wise.

[jblueep]

Welcome Mitzer! I would be interested in hearing more about your NDE if you are willing. It's a subject that interests me.

[Positivist]

Welcome, Mitzer! Glad you made it out of belief and out of the closet.

 

Christianity's beliefs around being gay is one reason I could not buy into the Christian belief system any more. More and more research, and personal testimonies, proves that being gay is simply how you are wired. It's how God "knit you together in your mother's womb", as I like to recite to Bible-thumpers. So, if it's such a sin, why did God make some people that way? The whole notion is so absurd and there was no way I could reconcile the ideas of science and the ideas in the Book of Bunk Bible. It just makes me sad (and mad) how Christianity craps on people who are gay.

 

Anyhow, I'm glad you're out and proud! Be free. Be at peace!

[freeasabird]

Welcome, thanks for sharing your story.

[Mitzer]

Thanks for the kind thoughts and well wishes! I actually feel better now, after the heart attack, than I have since I don't know when. My cardiologist and pulmonologist seem rather amazed at my recovery. I continue to smoke and eat what I damned well please...lol...(not medical advice to others!). My philosophy is...if you can't enjoy life, what the hell is the point of living?

 

Positivist, I couldn't agree more. What gets me is the fundamentalists and bilbe thumpers say it's a choice. We say no, it's not. We've prayed for God to change us. They say well, you didn't pray hard enough or you weren't sincere. Reminds of those spoiled "nya nya nya nya nya nya" brats...lol...!

 

jblueep, I'd be glad to PM you about it. Say the word! It's left me...kinda in awe, yet mostly feeling that's just the way it is. I've done lots of research on NDEs.

[Akheia]

Welcome! I'm glad you're feeling better after such a serious situation. There's a thread about NDEs somewhere around here with some interesting input from various folks.

[Margee]

Hi Mitzer! Welcome to EX-c. Thank you for sharing some of your story with us! I really hope you stick around! I also would love to hear about you NDE... if you wouldn't mind sharing it! I am glad you are in OK health now. Sounds like you are living every moment to your best!! Good for you!! looking forward to hearing more from you!

 

Sincerely, Margee

[norton65ca]

Welcome!!!!

Thank you so much for posting your story.

One of the most difficult things for me to face is the profound sense of shame and guilt I feel when I look back over my evangelical life and see the prejudice I held against gay people due to indoctrination, and how I expressed that to some people, including my adopted brother who came out twenty years ago. I feel so ashamed to have behaved in that way and I would like to express in some way an apology to you, even if we've never met. I know this might seem a little weird, but you can put it down to a kind of secular repentance if you will. I have a lot of apologizing to do with regard to this matter in particular.

The ideology I accepted without question so many years ago is odious and reprehensible. Please forgive me for impugning your entire community with condemnations based in a barbaric medieval belief system.

[Spectrox]

Great story Mitzer! Flatlined 3 times and still here to talk about it! Wow! Hope you're a lot better now.

[Mitzer]

Hi all! Yep, lots better...and in more ways than one! Thanks for the kind thoughts Thinker and Spectrox!

 

Margee...gee...you're like a celebrity to me! While lurking I've read your testimony and responses to posts and you're a gem...so carring and thirsty for truth! What a wonderful, healthy outlook you have after all you've been through! I'm sure there's others here just as burning for knowledge and have just as sad stories (or worse), but you just seem to shiningly stand out...and no offense to all others...!

As for my NDE, maybe I should post it under 'spiritualism' unless I find the thread about 'em. Thanks, Margee and Akheia...!

 

Gee, Norton...please don't be so hard on yourself. There is no need to apologize to me! I'm a lover of peace and love, and that's sure where it seems you're at now that you've realized the falseness of religion. Think I haven't done something really rotten? Well, I have...and so have most people. And I used to be a Christian, so I know where you've come from. What happened yesterday can't be changed, so we need to bury that. What happens this day forward is what's important. Thanks for you're kindness...and peace and love to you, brother!

See, this religion, Christianity, that claims to be about love and forgiveness is not about that at all. It's about separation from those who think/believe (or don't believe) differently. It's about condemnation of others and even self ("we're such filthy, vile things without Jesus"...ugh...pardon me while I vomit). And these loving Christians, so many of them walk around all pumped up with their silly idea that some magic invisible man is going to give them a diamond and ruby encrusted mansion to live in for eternity because they say they love him because magic big daddy made him die a horrible death for them...and they have the right to spit on you if you don't believe that silly nonsense too! (Uh...and what is this about "do unto others"?...or does that only apply to other Christians?) Well, they've been indoctrinated to the point they think there really is this place called hell and they're afraid they're gonna fry if they don't partake in the crock o' shit. I'll likely tell my feelings on hell in my NDE story (yeah...lol...like I'm some kinda sage...lol...!!!)

 

This really is a wonderful place. And thanks again, all!

[Margee]

Welcome!!!!

Thank you so much for posting your story.

One of the most difficult things for me to face is the profound sense of shame and guilt I feel when I look back over my evangelical life and see the prejudice I held against gay people due to indoctrination, and how I expressed that to some people, including my adopted brother who came out twenty years ago. I feel so ashamed to have behaved in that way and I would like to express in some way an apology to you, even if we've never met. I know this might seem a little weird, but you can put it down to a kind of secular repentance if you will. I have a lot of apologizing to do with regard to this matter in particular.

The ideology I accepted without question so many years ago is odious and reprehensible. Please forgive me for impugning your entire community with condemnations based in a barbaric medieval belief system.

 

This is so wonderful of you norton, to write such a beautiful note to mitzer! What a wonderful apology!! As far as I was concerned, we were all fucked and fell short of the 'glory' of god...... gay or not gay.

 

When I was very involved with the church......One of the things I used to try to explain to my gay son, when he said jesus couldn't love him, was that jesus himself never once mentioned homosexuality in any of his sermons or teachings. If 'gay' was that important - would he not have written a whole chapter on the topic??

 

As far as I was concerned - all of us were in trouble!! When you look at this verse below, sexual impurity (which of course included homosexuality) is in the same paragraph as guilt. Anger was in the same paragraph as impure thoughts. Jealousy is in the same paragraph as drunkedness. Selfish ambition is in the same paragraph as any lustful pleasure. Envy was in the same paragraph as wild partying! None of them were counted as any better or worse!! It used to make my boy feel better.

 

There was no winning!! Damn intrusive thoughts I used to have, kept me from knowing the 'kingdom of god'!! One of the desires of my sinful nature was smoking. I've been a smoker for a long time....they told me at the church... It was more important than god, so I was screwed too because I couldn't seem to put them down.!! If I was truly 'born again' all these habits were supposed to 'fall off me!!

 

''Galatians 5:19,20.........When you follow the desires of your sinful nature, the results are very clear: sexual immorality, impurity, lustful pleasures, idolatry, sorcery, hostility, quarreling, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambition, dissension, division, envy, drunkenness, wild parties, and other sins like these. Let me tell you again, as I have before, that anyone living that sort of life will not inherit the Kingdom of God.''

[Denyoz]

Hey Mitzer, thank you for sharing your story. Sorry I'm late, I was away when you posted it and just found it now. I read your NDE thread before this one. I'm quite happy I found it. Getting to know you better is a pleasure.

 

I'm surprised, I thought you were younger than me. Is Slovac your first language?

 

Your openness about being gay is refreshing. I know how difficult it is growing up feeling abnormal. It's a real head-fuck when you're not like the almighty majority. I'm glad you're out of the closet and out of the worse closet of all: Christianity!

 

Belated welcome to Ex-C my friend.