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jackbauer

"enemies Of God"

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From fundies you keep hearing about how certain people are "enemies of God". Typically, they talk about homosexuals, adulterers, people of other faiths, and basically people who aren't hurting or affecting anyone at all. They're just not worshiping God the right way (which is hard to do when God remains silent) So why would an all powerful God consider those people who aren't hurting anyone his enemy? Doesn't he have better things to worry about than to get all overdramatic over such petty bullshit? It would be like me stomping on an ant hill because some weren't working hard enough or something equally stupid. Ultimately, why would I care?

 

It all sounds so silly when I look bad at it.

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Guest wester

The same story throughout history:

Pick a poor defenseless target --- stomp on it -- now, aren't you a man?

Even though the rest of your life is a pathetic wank, now aren't you great?

 

Channeling god = narcissistic delusion

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Gawd sure behaves (according to the morontheists) like feels ashamed for his small dick no? :fdevil:

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From fundies you keep hearing about how certain people are "enemies of God". Typically, they talk about homosexuals, adulterers, people of other faiths, and basically people who aren't hurting or affecting anyone at all. They're just not worshiping God the right way (which is hard to do when God remains silent) So why would an all powerful God consider those people who aren't hurting anyone his enemy? Doesn't he have better things to worry about than to get all overdramatic over such petty bullshit? It would be like me stomping on an ant hill because some weren't working hard enough or something equally stupid. Ultimately, why would I care?

 

It all sounds so silly when I look bad at it.

I know what you mean! It is hard for me to believe I used to believe that way!

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God is a victim of bullying?

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Enemy of what? Why, did he say something?

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Aside from the pettiness of it all, It seems absurd to me that an all-powerful god could have enemies in the first place. If he's all-powerful, then he can destroy them any time he chooses. Why doesn't he just get on with it?

 

And yes, I know, the judgement is coming. Great. God is petty enough to call us his enemies, but he just can't be bothered to do anything about it right now.

 

Oh wait I forgot. He "...is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance." (2 Peter 3:9b). A day is like a thousand years, and all that. He loves us so much that he stays awake at night hoping that we'll all repent and be saved. So first he creates us capable of being bad, and knowing that we will be bad. Then when we're bad, he calls us his enemies. Then he commands us to stop being bad, so that we can stop being his enemies. And if we don't, there will be hell to pay. Someday.

 

Wasn't there also a human sacrifice in there somewhere?

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Aside from the pettiness of it all, It seems absurd to me that an all-powerful god could have enemies in the first place. If he's all-powerful, then he can destroy them any time he chooses. Why doesn't he just get on with it?

 

This. The part that I bolded, especially. And an all-powerful god could not only make his enemies literally disappear, but even make them disappear retroactively, then adjust the timeline so that no one would know that his enemies ever existed. Or, even better, since he can see infinitely into the future, he could just not have them ever be created to begin with. For an infinitely powerful, omnipotent being, neither would be more difficult than the other.

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Yeah scriptor. The mere fact that God is all powerful and can't be hurt by anything we do means that God doesn't need to have any enemies.

 

When I think about how some people precieve God as an angry, vengeful being who threatens people into obedience, I realize that it doesn't make any sense for God to do that. I mean, the only reason someone would threaten someone is because they want something from them (not that it's ever right to use threats and intimidation). What would God possibly want from us? God has everything, but we have very little. Even Christian theology states that we can't do anything for God. Of course they'll also mention The Cross, but that only makes sense in the context of God's rules he made. Once you question why God needed to punish people so harshly for screwing up, that doesn't hold any water. And even in that context, it's not really "giving" us anything. We still have to "give our lives to God". Again, I ask why? Why does God demand that we do things a certain way? What does he gain from it?

 

And yes, I've also heard the "long suffering" bullshit too. God can't do things the simple way, he has to do things in the most convoluted assine way imaginable. His way is going to cause a lot of suffering for both us and him, but it's to display his love for us. And that "love" also includes allowing billions to be tortured for eternity, because he loves us soooo much. Gag me with a spoon. It sounds more like God got bored with everything being perfect and wanted to introduce a little anarchy. At least that would make *some* sense.

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If Biblegod were real, it would be necessary for the good of humanity to find a way to kill it. Anything that is so cruel and petty yet shortsighted is a threat to all life, and certainly not the creator of anything. So yes, technically we are enemies of biblegod (as much as it is is possible to be an enemy of something that doesn't exist, would that merely mean that we are opposed to an idea?) because it would force us to choose between eternal torture or eternal slavery. (a golden cage is still a cage) Neither option is acceptable; I could live with a "leave me alone" option but apparently that isn't on the table.

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"God is in me, so if you are an enemy of me, then you are an enemy of God" - I think that's the thought process.

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"God is in me, so if you are an enemy of me, then you are an enemy of God" - I think that's the thought process.

Bingo. B/c gods only reside in people's imagination, any affront to that god is an affront to them personally.

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Xenophobia began with the incorporation of the cell wall into living organisms. It has continued ever since. Some resulting organisms are more xenophobic than others, some less so. Xenophobia is genetically based, and can be amplified though the organisim's environment (e.g., religious indoctrination) or environmentally minimized (e.g., rational education).

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"God is in me, so if you are an enemy of me, then you are an enemy of God" - I think that's the thought process.

 

There's a daring assumption in there, namely that morontheists (and people of the authoritarian mindset in general) really think.

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Yeah scriptor. The mere fact that God is all powerful and can't be hurt by anything we do means that God doesn't need to have any enemies.

 

When I think about how some people precieve God as an angry, vengeful being who threatens people into obedience, I realize that it doesn't make any sense for God to do that. I mean, the only reason someone would threaten someone is because they want something from them (not that it's ever right to use threats and intimidation). What would God possibly want from us? God has everything, but we have very little. Even Christian theology states that we can't do anything for God. Of course they'll also mention The Cross, but that only makes sense in the context of God's rules he made. Once you question why God needed to punish people so harshly for screwing up, that doesn't hold any water. And even in that context, it's not really "giving" us anything. We still have to "give our lives to God". Again, I ask why? Why does God demand that we do things a certain way? What does he gain from it?

 

And yes, I've also heard the "long suffering" bullshit too. God can't do things the simple way, he has to do things in the most convoluted assine way imaginable. His way is going to cause a lot of suffering for both us and him, but it's to display his love for us. And that "love" also includes allowing billions to be tortured for eternity, because he loves us soooo much. Gag me with a spoon. It sounds more like God got bored with everything being perfect and wanted to introduce a little anarchy. At least that would make *some* sense.

 

Yes, and the saints in heaven are supposed to rejoice in God forever and also get off on the sufferings of the damned, since that is justice against the enemies of God. So the saints are to rejoice in the eternal torment of whatever family and friends are in hell.

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And yes, I've also heard the "long suffering" bullshit too. God can't do things the simple way, he has to do things in the most convoluted assine way imaginable. His way is going to cause a lot of suffering for both us and him, but it's to display his love for us. And that "love" also includes allowing billions to be tortured for eternity, because he loves us soooo much. Gag me with a spoon. It sounds more like God got bored with everything being perfect and wanted to introduce a little anarchy. At least that would make *some* sense.

 

Love the bolded part. Kinda makes God seem a bit like the Joker fromThe Dark Knight.

 

"Nobody panics when things go according to plan. Even in the plan is horrifying."

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Biblical descriptions of the bible god sound like those used to describe the leader of North Korea.

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Usually when Christians start screaming about enemies of god it is because they said something completely STUPID and someone caught them at it and gave a rebuttal. To argue with a Christian is to argue with the mouth-piece of god and if you call a Christian a liar then it's the same thing as calling god a 'liar.' It is the typical way in which a Christian tries to wiggle out of a situation they brought upon themselves.

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The supporters of Gawd recognize that those who are not in the team are a threat to the team's power and even it's existence, by virtue of their own existence. The non team folks who are minding their own business, unconcerned about bible judgements and sin, give the lie to the fable followers in that their happy lives show that the biblical description of the sinners life is nowhere near accurate. When I began mixing with the "heathen", it was one of the first real problems for my faith. These weren't wicked people, they weren't into deliberate sinful lives, in fact most of them were nicer and kinder than a lot of the believers I had met. So began the thought sequence that examined the doctrines of eternal punishment and the beginning of cognitive dissonance for me.

It was the early writers of the NT that realized this immediately. You must demonize all those who do not share your views in order to eliminate them. When the church became state sponsored in around 400AD, the vicious persecution of the unorthodox, the polytheistic, the pantheists, indeed everyone who didn't toe the party line. The persecution of the heretics was far more brutal than anything the Romans ever did to the Christians. I have read "Tales of the Covenanters", Foxes Book of Martyrs and "A Great Cloud of Witnesses" and there's plenty of grim reading about how Christians behaved towards their own heretics, or those who were considered non conforming. The tortures and interrogations are not for those with weak stomachs.

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To exclude and create walls is essential for the survival of any rigid orthodoxy. Shunning is the extreme end but all non liberal churches practice exclusionism to some extent. Openess and open mindedness causes liberal theology at best and heresy at worst. I was told to minister to the unbelievers but that didn't include treating them as equals or giving their views any credence, just a polite nodding of the head, a quasi understanding look and then the requisite reading of a passage from John which would of course explain everything. Except it didn't for either of us in the end.

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Xenophobia began with the incorporation of the cell wall into living organisms. It has continued ever since. Some resulting organisms are more xenophobic than others, some less so. Xenophobia is genetically based, and can be amplified though the organisim's environment (e.g., religious indoctrination) or environmentally minimized (e.g., rational education).

 

But only plants have cell walls...I don't think anything was xenophobic against plants.

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"Enemies of God" put through Christianese to English in a translation engine gives you "Anything or anyone who does not agree with what we think. This includes homosexuals, atheists and free thinkers, and people who come from another part of the planet's surface who don't speak English."

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