Cults

[freeasabird]

Three questions for Christians.

 

In your own words, how do you define a cult and how is it different from the mainline religion you practice?

 

If a close friend or family member believed you were in a cult, would you want them to tell you?

 

If you would want them to tell you, how would they get through to you and get past the brainwashing and indoctrination?

[blackpudd1n]

Great questions, Free

 

*Makes a cuppa, grabs some popcorn, pulls up a seat, and gets comfortable*

[LoneTarus]

I really don't consider there to be much of a difference between a serious cult and most typical religions, particularly the christian and islamic flavors of religion. it's all a question of degrees of control and how rabidly fundamentalist they are and how much it revolves around a single personality.

 

They all brainwash you, they all try to isolate you from people that are not cult members (how many times have you been cautioned to stay away from people that are not christian and anything that doesn't have a christian world view? I know I certainly was...) They also all have their own special vocabulary and jargon that is very confusing to outsiders.

 

The more liberal the theology the less cult like they are likely to act. but if you really take the bible literally and do it to fullest extent possible you are going to end up looking a lot like the westboro baptist church, or some other horrible group.

 

I consider it all harmful though I drifted through many denominations before I de-converted and even the more liberal ones in my opinion are there only to manipulate and control you. A lot of the people doing this don't even realize that that is what they are really doing because they themselves are brainwashed by the religion they perpetuate. Sounds like a cult to me...

[par4dcourse]

Good question. That's why our christian visitors will avoid it like the plague. They only jump in when their particular myth is offended or it looks like a good evangelizing op.

[Chikirin]

I was in a group called Chi Alpha during college, and there was a Boston Church of Christ group on campus. We considered them a cult because they said you have to be baptized in water in their church to be saved, and they did intense 'shepherding.' We did intense shepherding also.

[FeelHappy]

Personally, I think they're all cultist that's how they keep you in the fold, some more so than others.

 

To me the true cult ones are any which practice shunning or any form of it (no exceptions).

[LoneTarus]

I was in a group called Chi Alpha during college, and there was a Boston Church of Christ group on campus. We considered them a cult because they said you have to be baptized in water in their church to be saved, and they did intense 'shepherding.' We did intense shepherding also.

 

Here is an article for those that may not know what he is talking about. http://subversiveinfluence.com/2008/02/the-shepherding-movement/

 

The article claims that the shepherding movement is dead but it is still out there. I encountered it in a good portion of the groups I was a part of. More evidence in the "does it look like a cult" column in my opinion.

[freeasabird]

Good question. That's why our christian visitors will avoid it like the plague. They only jump in when their particular myth is offended or it looks like a good evangelizing op.

 

QFT. I'm not sure if I even expected a response when I wrote this, though I would love to see one. If ya'll get bored feel free to make your best attempt to answer as if you were still a believer.

[Chikirin]

Personally, I think they're all cultist that's how they keep you in the fold, some more so than others.

 

To me the true cult ones are any which practice shunning or any form of it (no exceptions).

 

The group I was in practiced shunning

[blackpudd1n]

I was in a group called Chi Alpha during college, and there was a Boston Church of Christ group on campus. We considered them a cult because they said you have to be baptized in water in their church to be saved, and they did intense 'shepherding.' We did intense shepherding also.

 

Here is an article for those that may not know what he is talking about. http://subversiveinf...rding-movement/

 

The article claims that the shepherding movement is dead but it is still out there. I encountered it in a good portion of the groups I was a part of. More evidence in the "does it look like a cult" column in my opinion.

 

Ooooh... Accountability. Yeah. I remember that shit.

[mymistake]

Well Christians, don't all answer at once!

[CatholiKitty]

I'm kind of back in the game, so I'll answer the call.

 

1a) A bit backwards, but I'm going to start with what does not define a cult. I was going to consider insincerity of the leadership and how much money the sect (I'll use "sect" as the neutral term here) demands of its followers, but David Koresh and the Waco Branch Davidians don't really fit that but should be included as a cult. Money-grabbing and insincerity may be common characteristics of a cult, but I can't call them defining.

 

I think that the key indicator of a cult is degree of isolation members in a sect have from members outside of a sect. This can be from something as simple as not being allowed to interact with non-members or simply not having any non-members in the nearby community to more devious tactics like manipulating members into not leaving the group to moving members to a geographically or even socially isolated area.

 

As you likely all know, extreme isolation stops new ideas from entering the community, allowing the leadership greater control over the masses. Enough of it can assist or even cause memory alterations to make outside of the group seem paler and inside the group seem more right. Charismatic leadership isn't strictly necessary, but it makes the initial draw and control much much easier.

 

Isolation is also arguably the scareiest part of a cult because it takes affected friends and family away and changes them with little hope that they will return either soon or at all. Suicide and violence are also frightening, but that's only with a few cults.

 

1b) I've never been told or urged, at least not to a degree that I remember it, to shun those of other faiths by my church or religious upbringing. In high school, we even visited the synagogue down the street one time for religion class. My religion is (probably) the most popular religion in my city, but there's at least a little bit of most things around, and I never worry about which religion someone follows when I interact with them.

 

2) I would like them to tell me.

 

3) My friends and family rarely discuss religion, so they would have to ask what my religion actually is first. Other than that, I'm an agnostic Christian, so I can't imagine it being too hard if they use logic and don't put me on the defensive.

 

@mymistake: Don't yell! I was typing. =P

[Yalta]

I think that the key indicator of a cult is degree of isolation members in a sect have from members outside of a sect. This can be from something as simple as not being allowed to interact with non-members or simply not having any non-members in the nearby community to more devious tactics like manipulating members into not leaving the group to moving members to a geographically or even socially isolated area.

 

As you likely all know, extreme isolation stops new ideas from entering the community, allowing the leadership greater control over the masses. Enough of it can assist or even cause memory alterations to make outside of the group seem paler and inside the group seem more right. Charismatic leadership isn't strictly necessary, but it makes the initial draw and control much much easier.

 

I would totally agree with you there. What cults seem to have in common is the way they separate their members from the outside world and try to keep them from talking to those who might lead them out.

 

Some churches do this, of course, but not all. Others are more like "We're right, they're wrong", but they don't try to isolate their members or cut them off from nonbelieving family and friends, etc. In that case, I'd say such churches are not cults.

[Galien]

Personally, I think they're all cultist that's how they keep you in the fold, some more so than others.

 

To me the true cult ones are any which practice shunning or any form of it (no exceptions).

 

Agreed, when I was kicked out I lost 100 of my best friends, or so I thought. I considered these people family and I could not believe they abandoned me the way they did because some dick in a suit told them to. I would NEVER have treated them that way. Guess that is why they kicked me, I cannot do something that is against my personal prime directive, no matter how much the so called authority tells me to.

 

It broke my heart in ways I have never recovered from and it happened 18 years ago. Similar thing happened with a pentecostal church in 2006. That finally showed me who people really are. People suck. That is all.

[freeasabird]

I'm kind of back in the game, so I'll answer the call.

 

 

Thoughtful comments, but you're just about the most liberal 'Christian' here so I'm not totally sure it was what I was expecting. Thanks for sharing.

[freeasabird]

I think that the key indicator of a cult is degree of isolation members in a sect have from members outside of a sect. This can be from something as simple as not being allowed to interact with non-members or simply not having any non-members in the nearby community to more devious tactics like manipulating members into not leaving the group to moving members to a geographically or even socially isolated area.

 

As you likely all know, extreme isolation stops new ideas from entering the community, allowing the leadership greater control over the masses. Enough of it can assist or even cause memory alterations to make outside of the group seem paler and inside the group seem more right. Charismatic leadership isn't strictly necessary, but it makes the initial draw and control much much easier.

 

I would totally agree with you there. What cults seem to have in common is the way they separate their members from the outside world and try to keep them from talking to those who might lead them out.

 

Some churches do this, of course, but not all. Others are more like "We're right, they're wrong", but they don't try to isolate their members or cut them off from nonbelieving family and friends, etc. In that case, I'd say such churches are not cults.

 

While I agree with most of this, there are most definitely churches out there that try to isolate their members. It ranges from telling them what books they may or may not read, whether they should associate with mebers of other denominations and religions, to disallowing television and mainstream movies.

[Yalta]

I think that the key indicator of a cult is degree of isolation members in a sect have from members outside of a sect. This can be from something as simple as not being allowed to interact with non-members or simply not having any non-members in the nearby community to more devious tactics like manipulating members into not leaving the group to moving members to a geographically or even socially isolated area.

 

As you likely all know, extreme isolation stops new ideas from entering the community, allowing the leadership greater control over the masses. Enough of it can assist or even cause memory alterations to make outside of the group seem paler and inside the group seem more right. Charismatic leadership isn't strictly necessary, but it makes the initial draw and control much much easier.

 

I would totally agree with you there. What cults seem to have in common is the way they separate their members from the outside world and try to keep them from talking to those who might lead them out.

 

Some churches do this, of course, but not all. Others are more like "We're right, they're wrong", but they don't try to isolate their members or cut them off from nonbelieving family and friends, etc. In that case, I'd say such churches are not cults.

 

While I agree with most of this, there are most definitely churches out there that try to isolate their members. It ranges from telling them what books they may or may not read, whether they should associate with mebers of other denominations and religions, to disallowing television and mainstream movies.

 

Yup. Those churches are the cult-like ones.

[ConureDelSol]

Here's my experience from when I was a Christian:

 

All cults are actually called "Non-Christian Cults." Things that would qualify something as a this would be something like not believing in the Trinity, not believing in Jesus as God/the Son of God, and the non-belief in an afterlife. This ruled out groups like Unitarians, Christadelphians, Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses. That was just so that they could separate the truly true Christians from the people who just claim to be Christians. This category also included, well, any group that claimed to NOT be Christian. So, I was basically taught that any group that falls into these categories is a cult.

 

Ironically, you hear of "Non-Christian Cults" yet no one ever says anything about "Christian Cults". Fun fact: Many of you who were here when I first joined may remember a post I mentioned this, but my pastor has admitted that my church is at least 80% cult.

[florduh]

Since most (if not all) of us have been involved in what at least somebody would define as a cult, here are a few thoughts.

 

There are no cults, just different versions of Truth.

 

One man's cult is another man's religion.

 

A cult is a religion that hasn't gotten tax exemption yet.

 

A cult is defined by its competing belief systems.

 

Nobody ever admits to being part of a cult, but somebody's got to be in one somewhere!

 

 

For me, making the call is totally subjective. The negative connotations that go with the word 'cult' apply in varying ways and degrees to Jim Jones, Scientology, Mormonism, Baptists, and the Roman Catholic Church. Hell, there's even a cult for Ayn Rand: http://www.2think.org/02_2_she.shtml

[CatholiKitty]

I'm kind of back in the game, so I'll answer the call.

 

 

Thoughtful comments, but you're just about the most liberal 'Christian' here so I'm not totally sure it was what I was expecting. Thanks for sharing.

Heh, yeah, I know. I don't even have a True Believer^TM stamp. I thought it would be better than nothing, but I do still hope to hear from the more interesting Christians.

[Guest end3]

Since most (if not all) of us have been involved in what at least somebody would define as a cult, here are a few thoughts.

 

There are no cults, just different versions of Truth.

 

One man's cult is another man's religion.

 

A cult is a religion that hasn't gotten tax exemption yet.

 

A cult is defined by its competing belief systems.

 

Nobody ever admits to being part of a cult, but somebody's got to be in one somewhere!

 

 

For me, making the call is totally subjective. The negative connotations that go with the word 'cult' apply in varying ways and degrees to Jim Jones, Scientology, Mormonism, Baptists, and the Roman Catholic Church. Hell, there's even a cult for Ayn Rand: http://www.2think.org/02_2_she.shtml

 

Careful, you are spoiling the non-cult cult get together.

[mymistake]

I see religion and cult as being the exact same thing except in scale and popularity. There is a quote or bumper sticker to that effect but I can't remember the source. The idea makes sense to me.