freeasabird Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 So on facebook I got outed months ago by the ticker since it posts all your likes and comments on everything, but before yesterday I never explicitly put anything on my wall. (My parents also don't know where I stand on religion, it never comes up.) Me: "I don't normally post religious stuff on my wall but this is absolutely disturbing that someone would be punished with the DEATH PENALTY for an imaginary crime, and the blame rests completely on the shoulders of religion." http://m.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/apr/19/saudi-arabia-beheading-woman-withcraft?cat=world&type=article SIL (agnostic): Horrible Cousin (atheist): Seriously disturbing. BIL (not from same side as SIL, deeply religious, but not fundy): While I'll be the first to admit religion has been used throughout history to justify some terrible and very unGodly things, this is a human rights issue (http://www.amnesty.org/en/news-and-updates/report/sri-lanka-inquiry-armed-conflict-fu...ndamentally-flawed-2011-09-072010). They don’t care about having a credible reason to execute their people. Any reason at all (or none at all) will do just fine. The majority of Sri Lankans are Buddhists, who usually oppose the death penalty. Pretty sure we are not looking at a democracy or the voice of the people here. Anyone can hide behind a guise of religion. You are absolutely right, something needs to be done, but the blame doesn't rest on religion It falls on the cowardly and corrupt government killing their on people for a myriad of trumped up reasons. Brother (don't know, but probably agnostic): I once thought that the death penalty was justified in at least some cases, but I've completely reversed on that. There is no system of justice that could be administered by humans that can be relied upon never to execute someone that shouldn't be. Me: Chris I completely agree with you. Thank goodness for evolving morality. It really is amazing the sea change in mores we get to experience and be a part of in our lifetime. Tom, I'm glad you decided to weigh in. There's no one else I'd ...rather discuss many things with than you because you're willing to consider the hard questions. I often get the feeling that people don't want to have to think about the questions that don't have a clear answer. The tie I made to religion was because the Pentateuch itself, the bedrock of the three Abrahamic religions of the world, which collective followers equal half the world's population, explicitly calls for the punishment by death of those practicing witchcraft. In fact, the same chapter holds the punishment (death again) for the crime of homosexuality. Let me pose the question this way. If I were to ask someone about the United States' history of slavery, there are two ways they could answer. Someone could say, "well, back this it wasn't that bad. The slaves were needed so the economy could do well since the cotton gin hadn't been invented yet." Or I could answer "it was wrong. To own another human being is wrong and has always been wrong. We screwed up as a country and we disavow any relation to those actions as good or just." I don't know about you but I would give a lot more respect to the second answer. Progressives like Thomas Jefferson and John Shelby Spong have tried to give the second answer to some of religion's darkest chapters, but they are labeled as heretics by the rest of the community. By not completely owning up to then immediately disavowing the atrocities of the bible which we as a collective society now agree are not the moral guide which was claimed for so long, religion will continue to be hamstrung as the exclusively positive force that it could and should be. Me: I forgot to add Tom, I like your answer you gave:). What do you think? I will update if Tom shares anything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akheia Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 I liked your answer very much. I'd have a lot more respect for Christians if they acknowledged the brutal and bloodthirsty parts of their Bible and disavowed any rationalization that made those parts acceptable. But then that'd open the door to disavowing other parts of it--if some parts are clearly not okay, how do we know which parts are? (And the answer I had right before deconverting: Just about none of it is.) I'm not sure the Christian church, as a whole, is ready to do that quite yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jblueep Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 Looks like it could turn into an interesting discussion, but unfortunately in my experience, Xians immediately shrink away from the tough questions. If they ignore it, it will go away Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freeasabird Posted April 20, 2012 Author Share Posted April 20, 2012 Looks like it could turn into an interesting discussion... Nope. I knew he was going to pull the Jesus card, just didn't realize it was going to come so soon. BIL: Well you could look at the Pentateuch as having very strict laws but instead one should consider the teachings of Christ for a moral guide. There is none better for morality. I really don't think I'm going to respond. He doesn't want to question anything, he's not ready for that, and probably never will be. This is hard to put into words and I won't say much more besides this, but he's had a tough life and deserves to not be bothered. I won't do that to him. Like I said earlier, he's not the mead fundy type. I wish they weren't Catholic since I disagree with many things in the Catholic doctrine, but he's genuinely a good guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jblueep Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 I really don't think I'm going to respond. He doesn't want to question anything, he's not ready for that, and probably never will be. This is hard to put into words and I won't say much more besides this, but he's had a tough life and deserves to not be bothered. I won't do that to him. Like I said earlier, he's not the mead fundy type. I wish they weren't Catholic since I disagree with many things in the Catholic doctrine, but he's genuinely a good guy. Sounds like the right call to me based on your knowledge of his situation. You're a good friend to him, and you will be there when/if he has questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freeasabird Posted April 20, 2012 Author Share Posted April 20, 2012 Throw this at them. I have NEVER been able to have a Christian come back in any way resembling any rationality. God: Accept my son and you shall be saved, and rule for eternity with me and have life everlasting. Mafia Don: Sign this offer you can't refuse and you will have all the money you could need, no body will bother you, and all you have to do is a few favors for us. God: Reject my son and you go to hell. Mafia Don: Reject my contract and you will find yourself at the bottom of the river in concrete shoes. Which one is extortion? I could easily do that, but I won't. See above. I count him as someone who I truly care for and who truly cares for me. Trust me, if I'm ever attacked on the whole Jesus thing I will ahve this one in my back pocket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
★ Citsonga ★ Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 Me: "I don't normally post religious stuff on my wall but this is absolutely disturbing that someone would be punished with the DEATH PENALTY for an imaginary crime, and the blame rests completely on the shoulders of religion." http://m.guardian.co...ld&type=article This kind of stuff always gets to me. I mean, it should be abundantly obvious how stupid the whole execute-the-witch concept is. How could someone with supernatural powers be overcome by people using purely natural means? Any real "witch" would use his/her powers to get out of such a predicament. The very fact that they can't magically save themselves is proof that they have no such powers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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