owen652 Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 Since deconverting I am extremely wary of belief systems that involve handing over money. Today my wife and her friend went to visit a 'crystal shop', and after being given a typical cold reading by the lady there, my wife was advised to hold her hand over different varieties of crystals and told that she may feel heat or a tingling sensation over the one that is right for her. When she put her hand above the amazonite she received what she described as a large electric shock from it that made her yelp. This is not the supernatural experience I'm talking about. My wife only went to this place out of mild interest and although she was blown away by her experience I think I managed to at least convey to her that there are explanations for everything if you want to look. Like, in the case of the electric shock, it could have been one of at least two things: 1) Outright fraud, involving a simple trick with a magician's buzzer. 2) Psychological phenomena, like the party trick where you hold your finger above someone else's hand and they can sense tingling etc coming from your finger. Definitely strange, but just because something is almost impossible to get your head around, doesn't mean there isn't a naturalistic explanation for it. But.. during the course of our ensuing conversation she reminded me of something that happened to her several years ago which falls into the one category I must admit has me flummoxed. She and her sister were visiting her grandmother, who has since died, and they were both at the table while grandma was doing something in the kitchen. Their grandfather had only recently died (I think it was a matter of weeks earlier). They both very clearly heard their grandfather call out to his wife from another room, in the idiosyncratic way he always did, in the distinctive voice that they both knew very well. They both heard it, and froze with fear. It could not be mistaken for anything else. I don't have a problem with attributing things like haunted houses or similar ghostly/supernatural occurrences to groupthink or mass delusion, where an expectation of a particular manifestation is raised and people collectively create these things in their own minds. If you are told the room you are about to enter is inhabited by the ghost of a little girl, it's hardly surprising if you see a little girl in there. But group experiences of the kind my wife had are not so easily explained, when two or more people hear or see exactly the same thing, at exactly the same time, with no warning, or possibility of any suggestion being planted in their minds. I don't honestly believe it was the spirit of their grandfather, but at the same time I believe they experienced something real. The question is, IF these kinds of group encounters are psychological in nature, how does it work? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thackerie Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 Well, that's how they remember it. But who's to say if that's how it actually happened? I've been shown that some of my "memories" of what I thought were actual events had been somewhat embellished, subconsciously, over time. I think this happens a lot, with lots of people. So, maybe one of them thought she heard something, reacted to that, and the other picked up on the within a split second and they shared a sense of being startled. If they were still mourning for the grandfather, who had died only weeks earlier, it's natural that they thought of him. And, if he had an "idiosyncratic way" of calling out in his "distinctive voice," it's natural that they both thought of their experience of hearing him say what he often said in the way he so often said it. I don't know; that's just a conjecture. But, we've had similar things (like group hallucinations) happen in my family. But, so far, none of my siblings or I have experienced a ghostly manifestation of our deceased parents. I sort of, kind of, wish we would. I don't think any of us would be filled with fear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stryper Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 http://truthloveenergy.com/profiles/blogs/live-michael-session-on-31411 Bobby2] I have had what I guess I would consider 3 claire-audio experiences over the last couple of years. I would be interested in what you have to say about these. I will list and number them below: [bobby2] 1) In October of 2009 the newly deceased mother(Betty XXX) of my partner came to give me a message regarding her son(Martin XXX - Take care of him) ....................... [MEntity] We can say that it is "valid," though we say that based on what we can interpret from your records, which may or may not be accurate. We do think our interpretation indicates validity, however, because it appears to match "her" records, as well. It could very well have been grandpa stopping by to say hi. My wife's cousin was driving down the road one day and her 3yr old (at the time) daughter was in the back talking to someone. So she asked who daughter was talking to. Daughter replied "Po-po". Which was the cousin's and my wife's grandfather who died before the daughter was born. Could just be active imagination of a child, could have been a visitation. The truth is we just don't know. Our science very much discounts anything that is spiritual. Yet medical science has empricial evidence that meditation, in many forms, relieves stress and has demonstrable effects on the body. Yet meditation is usually completely mental, at least as most people think of it. So, if it is all in our minds, then how can anyone say that some else's experience was false. The simplest answer is it's that person's or people experience. People have religious experiences all the time. Many on this site did, myself included. The emotional high that religions provide is intoxicating. However, like any drug it fades. But those experiences were valid. You did feel that high. It was interpreted it as being closer to god. Your wife and her sister could have both being thinking about grandpa at the same time. Perhaps that was enough to trigger a memory and thus a hallucination. Perhaps grandpa really did pop in for sec and say hi. Perhaps there was something in water. The truth is we don't know. And sometimes you just have to accept that you don't know. However, that doesn't diminish the experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 Since deconverting I am extremely wary of belief systems that involve handing over money. Yes, me too. I was a member of Eckankar once. For a free they sent you some religious bullshit. I quit after a few months of these 'discourses.' Then I became a Christian and actually tithed a while. Bad idea. If your giving money is a general expectation by a religious organization then that is the true reason for the existence of that organization. Now you might find some value in the 'presentation' you receive at church and then it might be appropriate to pay for someone's time. Though I would probably have more fun at a WWF Wrestlemania event. Both church and Wrestlemania are fake, but Wrestlemania is more fun and cheaper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stryper Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 Now you might find some value in the 'presentation' you receive at church and then it might be appropriate to pay for someone's time. Though I would probably have more fun at a WWF Wrestlemania event. Both church and Wrestlemania are fake, but Wrestlemania is more fun and cheaper. With more scantily clad women. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yrth Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=waVAFoMYBXM&feature=relatedFunny video about ghost stories. : ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
owen652 Posted April 25, 2012 Author Share Posted April 25, 2012 ^^^ holy crap, that's hilarious!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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