Talking To Christians Is Like Talking To Small Children

[Kurari]

I was at a nice little BBQ this afternoon with friends, enjoying the nice weather. Just sitting back with a beer and talking about gardening.

 

On one side of me is a fairly nice guy in his late 20's, that I later discovered is an uber-fundy. On my other side is an old friend of mine.

 

Well, we're just chatting along, and Old Friend accidently outs me. She didn't do it on purpose (we were discussing George Carlin), but it was loud enough for Fundy Boy to overhear and he says in a voice of shock and horror, "You're an atheist?!"

 

Now mind you, I live in a very atheist friendly town, and a bunch of people at this BBQ are atheists, pagans, and mostly non-religious. I'm surprised he didn't already know this (he was a gaming buddy invited along, but I digress).

 

I think just about every stereotypical line you could think of that we see on this forum from Christians was played out in this conversation. I knew exactly what he was going to say before he said it. Nothing he said surprised me. He just couldn't believe that I was really an atheist...didn't I know about Jesus? Oh, I'm an Ex-Christian? I couldn't be...I must really not have known Jesus...or I'm being misled by Satan and don't know it.

 

It was like trying to be a patient adult with a very insistent child asking lots of big questions. It was an interesting exercise in trying to dumb down the complicated thought process we Ex-C's go through to someone so naive about how the world worked. There was just no way to explain it to him because he had neither the wisdom, experience, or maturity to understand how someone could possibly read the same book he did and come to the conclusion that Christianity, Jesus, and God are not moral, interesting, or remotely appealing.

 

I'm really not a kid person. I have very little ability beyond being polite to connect with kids. I just don't have the knack. So this was very trying and mostly I wasn't angry with him or his silly assumptions because, well, you can't really get mad at kids for being too young to understand grown-up things.

 

The conversation ended when someone called him to come over to help them with something, but by then, I was very worn out in the way I usually feel whenever I have to deal with small children.

 

Anybody else get this feeling?

[buffettphan]

Yes! It is exasperating! Sometimes I just want to shake them (the xtians) and tell them to start believing in Santa Claus again. Same difference -- once you know, you know. Period.

[Akheia]

Sounds like you made his paradigm shift without a clutch, as the old Dilbert cartoon put it.

 

Yeah, I've had to deal with the same sort of bullshit too, but mostly from people who find out I'm childfree. I don't get a lot of hassle about religion most of the time. But explaining baby-bingo fallacies to people who haven't ever even considered the idea that a woman can be perfectly content not having kids--in a deeply Mormon town--can be really tough. The only real time I can recall being hassled about religion was at work; I briefly mentioned the weird pastor's-daughter elsethread who handed me one of the standard lines about leaving "church" just because I was pissy at someone. Poor little thing. The idea that something might be rotten in Denmark really just hadn't ever occurred to her. She'd never even encountered an ex-C before, it was plain, and apparently all she had to go on was apologetics bingo and her weird father's ravings about why people might leave. It was shocking how childlike her general attitude was. I almost--almost--felt bad about telling her that there was no Santa Claus.

[jackbauer]

Yeah, their logic and debate tactics are much like the tactics children use to win an arguement with their parents. I'm thinking Ray Comfort, who's favorite tactic is to accuse the other side of things which are commonly thrown at fundie thiests like him. He even had a book out titled "evolution a fairy tale for grown ups". He also responded to a question to prove the human soul is real by asking the person to prove that "atheism" is real. WTF?

[Ouroboros]

Anybody else get this feeling?

Yes. You describe it perfectly.

[Kurari]

Sounds like you made his paradigm shift without a clutch, as the old Dilbert cartoon put it.

 

Yeah, I've had to deal with the same sort of bullshit too, but mostly from people who find out I'm childfree. I don't get a lot of hassle about religion most of the time. But explaining baby-bingo fallacies to people who haven't ever even considered the idea that a woman can be perfectly content not having kids--in a deeply Mormon town--can be really tough. The only real time I can recall being hassled about religion was at work; I briefly mentioned the weird pastor's-daughter elsethread who handed me one of the standard lines about leaving "church" just because I was pissy at someone. Poor little thing. The idea that something might be rotten in Denmark really just hadn't ever occurred to her. She'd never even encountered an ex-C before, it was plain, and apparently all she had to go on was apologetics bingo and her weird father's ravings about why people might leave. It was shocking how childlike her general attitude was. I almost--almost--felt bad about telling her that there was no Santa Claus.

 

I sympathize greatly with you there as well. I'm also Childfree, so I get that sometimes too.

 

It's a shame seeing people not using their evolution-given brains. I know a lot of Christians who couldn't care less if someone else isn't a Christian or make such childish assumptions about them. My husband included. He married me knowing full well that I'm an atheist.

[Margee]

I just watched '' Inherit The Wind'' again the other night. Filmed in the 60's.....I love Spencer Tracy in this part - how he talks back to a fundi!!

 

Nothing has really changed......same ole' arguments and questions over and over.......

 

[BrotherJosh]

Very good point. I often feel the same way when I go to lunch with my parents, specifically my mother. This is someone who doesn't have a basic grasp of anything scientific, scholarly, or anything beyond her Bible. She has very little education, so basically I'm putting the cart before the horse when trying to explain certain things. This lead me to eventually give up on having discussions, and instead just steer it towards safe topics.

[owen652]

You dont need to be scholarly or scientifically learned to grasp the idea that biblegod contradicts himself by being both good and evil in the same book.

[par4dcourse]

It's all black/white good/bad wrong/right heaven/hell. Child logic.

[Vigile]

I just watched '' Inherit The Wind'' again the other night. Filmed in the 60's.....I love Spencer Tracy in this part - how he talks back to a fundi!!

 

Nothing has really changed......same ole' arguments and questions over and over.......

 

 

Awesome, another Spencer Tracy fan. I knew I loved you Margee.

 

His Nuremberg Trial film was out of this world. The speech he gives in it is something all humanity needs to hear and then sit down and contemplate at least once in their lives.

[Mitzer]

I've not yet been confronted with a Christian who tries to pin me down with their silly logic. When and if that time comes I might respond with something like "now, why would I take the word of people who couldn't even comprehend that we live on a planet?".

[Margee]

I just watched '' Inherit The Wind'' again the other night. Filmed in the 60's.....I love Spencer Tracy in this part - how he talks back to a fundi!!

 

Nothing has really changed......same ole' arguments and questions over and over.......

Awesome, another Spencer Tracy fan. I knew I loved you Margee.

 

His Nuremberg Trial film was out of this world. The speech he gives in it is something all humanity needs to hear and then sit down and contemplate at least once in their lives.

Love you too Vigile! you've been a good friend to me in the last 16 months.......

 

Spencer is sooooo cool... especially in this film!! I could watch this movie over and over....I love it every time he opens his mouth in this movie. As great as his 'comebacks' were - I still don't think he made a huge impact on the community in the film. This movie just reminds me that we really are the minority and to be an agnostic or atheist in a world of believers is not a good thing.

 

I have a friend who counts on me all the time. She is going through a real hard time right now and has stopped calling me. (She knows my truth) When I called her the other day and asked if she was OK - she told me what she needs right now is 'prayer' and I can't give that to her. another friend down the drain.......

 

This is why I come here everyday...so I can be who I really am and get the support I need. I find it very lonesome inside to be a 'non-believer. I put on the big, happy smiley face for the world... but deep down...i sure wish sometimes that I didn't lose my faith and I could remain as ignorant as the rest of those christians who shouted obsenities against Tracy in that courtroom!

 

thank gawd for EX-c......

[nptphotos]

@ par4dcourse

 

You have described my Mother to a tee!! The only addition for her would be "my way or the highway".

 

Thanks

[★ Citsonga ★]

It was like trying to be a patient adult with a very insistent child asking lots of big questions.

 

At least my children usually try to understand when I answer their questions. Fundies rarely set aside their prejudices to try to understand us.

 

There was just no way to explain it to him because he had neither the wisdom, experience, or maturity to understand how someone could possibly read the same book he did and come to the conclusion that Christianity, Jesus, and God are not moral, interesting, or remotely appealing.

 

...or even real.

 

 

 

 

And Margee, thanks for that video clip. I may have to check that movie out.

[florduh]

That's a good description. You are attempting to have a normal, logical, adult conversation with the mind of a small child when you engage anyone with a narrow view seen through absurd assumptions. This includes the devout Christians, Muslims, Scientologists, Republicans and Democrats. Everything gets filtered through their alternate reality. Open minds are much harder to find than minds that are each dedicated to an agenda and belief system of some sort.

[Peace]

You explained it so well!

 

The reason I've remained private in my deconversion is to avoid even the chance of this conversation. I hope to avoid it for the entirety of my life.

 

It's impossible to have the logical conversation because if they were to step outside their circular logic they wouldn't be able to argue their point at all. It's one of the reasons in all my 29 years as a xtian I never once tried to convert someone- I knew we were speaking different languages, living different logic.

 

Funny enough it was my xtian friends who taught me wisely to 'never engage crazy!'.

[Kurari]

I once had a former fundy friend give me grief about, as he refers to, "falling away"....He proceeded to give me a lecture. I just stopped him in mid stream and said...."you need to ask the first and most important question"......"that is...DO I GIVE A SHIT?"........"Answer...NO!" and say it with a smile and they are just sooooooooo shocked.....

 

Oh, I tried something similar, several times, but he just ignored me. My soul was in danger, you know!

[riddick]

I'm actually quite offended by the OP, i have young nieces and nephews and they are quite sensible, smart, quick witted, absolutely nothing like your Christian friend.

[expat674]

I had a conversation with my local fundie friend about my divorce at the weekend. I let him pray for me as it was early (8.30am) and I had not woken up properly. He started to pray to god about marriage restoration. Not so childish I guess, but it displays a childish attitude to love, marriage and life. "Jus'pray to the lord an'ever'fink will be OK, OK?!?!?!?"

 

I wonder what colour the sky is on planet fundi?

[Guest Babylonian Dream]

Sounds like the fundies I grew up with and around. They are told by Jesus to be like children. Guess they take that part literally.

 

I've distanced myself from fundies to keep my sanity. They're frustrating to deal with. I love how they look at you with shock and horror at the thought of you being an atheist. I remember my uncle, who I haven't spoken to since, say, "you're not a christian? I thought you were going to be the good kid, the one I thought would turn out the best?" (Guess that does it in for me doing good?) I miss my uncle though.

 

Then there are the fundies like my grandma, who thinks that satanists (not LaVeyan, the evil paranoid nonexistant babykilling cult that's as old as christianity) and atheists are the same. It was always her thing when criticising my grandpa. My grandpa influenced me the most, short of racism and xenophobia, my mind is alot like his. Then again, nobody is perfect. Though racists and xenophobes tend to have a different sort of problem, but they also can be very childish.

[Kurari]

At least my children usually try to understand when I answer their questions. Fundies rarely set aside their prejudices to try to understand us.

 

I'm actually quite offended by the OP, i have young nieces and nephews and they are quite sensible, smart, quick witted, absolutely nothing like your Christian friend.

 

LOL, you're both quite right. At least kids can learn and have some intelligence (unless they grow up to be fundies). They're kind of like hanging around short schizophrenics, but at least they aren't deliberately obtuse!

[Akheia]

I'm actually quite offended by the OP, i have young nieces and nephews and they are quite sensible, smart, quick witted, absolutely nothing like your Christian friend.

Kids can be very quick-witted, but they have that Martian logic going. Once I was at a friend's house at his dining-room table for gaming night (I tabletop) and his 8- or 9-year-old daughter went into the kitchen. "What're you doing?" asked her dad, our GM. "Getting a sandwich," she said, and he said that was fine. We continued on. A few minutes later I heard a drawer open in the kitchen and a metal-sliding sound. Her dad said without even looking up, "Honey, don't put used knives back in the drawer." Silence, then another metal-sliding noise and the clink of a knife in a sink. "Okay, daddy," came the little voice from the kitchen. She's smart as hell, but has to be told that it's not okay to put peanut-butter-covered knives back in the silverware drawer. To me that was childhood in a nutshell.

 

Margee, I didn't see this post till today, but I'm so sorry your friend said that to you. Maybe she just needs time to see that a real friend willing to spend time with her and listen to her is worth far more than the false hope of prayer. I'm grateful that my friends in my darkest days actually did stuff with me and genuinely helped me rather than mouth platitudes about sky daddies. I wish I lived closer to you; you sound like a wonderful friend to have.