Curiosity Would Kill This Cat :p

[blackpudd1n]

Last night, I received this very mysterious phone call from a girl my fiancee has known for years, but I don't know very well. She wanted to meet with me, alone, because she had something to show/tell me. Curiosity piqued, I agreed, and when I got off the phone, I told my fiancee who it was, and the mysterious nature of the call, and I said to him, "is there something you need to tell me?" He told me he didn't think so, but nevertheless, spent all of last night wondering if he had done something that I wouldn't have liked, his friend had found out, and was going to tell me.

 

Anyway, I met the chick this morning, and the big mysterious thing she had to tell me about was... Amway. Jesus christ. I should have known.

 

Then you should have seen how excited she got when she realised who my dad was- well known and connected enough in this town to be on friendly terms with the mayor. Which is probably the greatest irony of my dad's life, considering that he was never interested in any of that, and still isn't.

 

Anyway, I told her fast that we weren't going to get into Amway. Done it before in the past, for starters, but not only that, I tried to explain how Amway works, how someone always has to lose out in order for others to be making money, that they really make their money from the CD's and seminars, and that it's far too cult-like for my ex-christian atheist self.

 

The irony of the session? She told me that she could justify spending money on CD's and seminars because she's learning so much... but her phone's been cut off and she had no money for credit on her prepaid phone. Hmm.

[Positivist]

Seriously. I hope she paid for your drink. And your fiance sounds like a keeper!

[blackpudd1n]

Seriously. I hope she paid for your drink. And your fiance sounds like a keeper!

 

lol I had to buy my own drink!!!

[blackpudd1n]

Weren't you afraid that she would be, I dunno, an attempted murderer or something? Don't you guys get Lifetime movies broadcasted down there?

 

lol nah. We met on my turf- the coffee shop my dad has overrun with his mates. They're there everyday, and they come out en masse on a Saturday morning on their motorbikes. The owner and everyone who works there knows who I am, and who my dad is. Hell, I've even called on the shop phone and they've taken it out to dad when his mobile's been flat. So many other places in town have tried to get them to go to their coffee shops instead, with discounts and shit, but they don't realise what is so special about this place- the carpark. They can all park there, and keep an eye on their bikes while they have a coffee, or walk around and check them all out.

[freeasabird]

LMAO, those Amway people give me the heebie jeebies, and my cousin is one of them LOL. After being 'propositioned' twice now, I can usually see it coming because they recycle the same lines over and over. Like "I work with a multi billion dollar corporation where your success is determined by your own work ethic blah blah blah, but I don't have a boss and set my own hours."

[blackpudd1n]

LMAO, those Amway people give me the heebie jeebies, and my cousin is one of them LOL. After being 'propositioned' twice now, I can usually see it coming because they recycle the same lines over and over. Like "I work with a multi billion dollar corporation where your success is determined by your own work ethic blah blah blah, but I don't have a boss and set my own hours."

 

It annoys me when they talk about their "business". I'm sorry, but Amway is not a business.

 

And it is creepy- I feel like I'm talking to a pentecostal trying to convert me or something. They have that same look in their eyes, they also all start sounding the same after a bit- fake. Bleh.

[Chikirin]

In America, Amway changed their name, but they were forced to do commercials on TV saying that they used to be known as Amway

[blackpudd1n]

In America, Amway changed their name, but they were forced to do commercials on TV saying that they used to be known as Amway

 

 

Network 21 is what they're going under here now. Try telling them, though, that it's the same shit, but just with a different label.

[stryper]

AHHH Amway/Quixstar...... I can't complain to much about it I did met one of my best friends "in the business", but yeah.... When the Yeager got up on stage and said isn't it great to have Bush Jr. in the WHitehouse and the crowd went wild at a convention. I snapped out of it. Then when I was the ONLY person in my line of business to show up to one....I said Done!!! Didn't need it anymore.

[blackpudd1n]

AHHH Amway/Quixstar...... I can't complain to much about it I did met one of my best friends "in the business", but yeah.... When the Yeager got up on stage and said isn't it great to have Bush Jr. in the WHitehouse and the crowd went wild at a convention. I snapped out of it. Then when I was the ONLY person in my line of business to show up to one....I said Done!!! Didn't need it anymore.

 

I really have no time for it. False hope. Just pisses me off.

 

Not only that, but I'm not into putting all my eggs into one basket. It's not a smart way to live.

[Will02]

A few years ago, I read a book called The Merchants of Deception in which a guy talks about his experience in Amway 15-20 years ago and how fucked up the whole thing is. (apparently some guys at the top were prosecuted for fraud) He used to give the book away on his website, not sure if he still does. It's an interesting read if you can overlook all the christian-mentality bullshit in it.

[blackpudd1n]

A few years ago, I read a book called The Merchants of Deception in which a guy talks about his experience in Amway 15-20 years ago and how fucked up the whole thing is. (apparently some guys at the top were prosecuted for fraud) He used to give the book away on his website, not sure if he still does. It's an interesting read if you can overlook all the christian-mentality bullshit in it.

 

There is a very interesting website all about the sins of Amway- I'll go see if I can find it. It might be run by the same guy. Got to admit, the site's a bit chaotic, so I might have to post a few separate links.

[midniterider]

Last night, I received this very mysterious phone call from a girl my fiancee has known for years, but I don't know very well. She wanted to meet with me, alone, because she had something to show/tell me. Curiosity piqued, I agreed, and when I got off the phone, I told my fiancee who it was, and the mysterious nature of the call, and I said to him, "is there something you need to tell me?" He told me he didn't think so, but nevertheless, spent all of last night wondering if he had done something that I wouldn't have liked, his friend had found out, and was going to tell me.

 

Anyway, I met the chick this morning, and the big mysterious thing she had to tell me about was... Amway. Jesus christ. I should have known.

 

Then you should have seen how excited she got when she realised who my dad was- well known and connected enough in this town to be on friendly terms with the mayor. Which is probably the greatest irony of my dad's life, considering that he was never interested in any of that, and still isn't.

 

Anyway, I told her fast that we weren't going to get into Amway. Done it before in the past, for starters, but not only that, I tried to explain how Amway works, how someone always has to lose out in order for others to be making money, that they really make their money from the CD's and seminars, and that it's far too cult-like for my ex-christian atheist self.

 

The irony of the session? She told me that she could justify spending money on CD's and seminars because she's learning so much... but her phone's been cut off and she had no money for credit on her prepaid phone. Hmm.

 

Yahway - Amweh ... Two cults. Both with overpriced products.

[Yrth]

"I don't think so..." I had to chuckle when I read that. Not the time to hedge, lol.

[blackpudd1n]

Yahway - Amweh ... Two cults. Both with overpriced products.

 

Totally.

[blackpudd1n]

"I don't think so..." I had to chuckle when I read that. Not the time to hedge, lol.

 

lol he knows he's better off being honest with me. I can read body language and all the rest. He learnt that lesson rather early in the piece

[Akheia]

Ha! Amway! I'm so glad you were worried for nothing. It's crazy how people get sucked into those MLMs. I read a report that said 1 in 6 people in my state are doing some kind of MLM according to their tax returns, but 99.xxx% of them reported losing money on them.

 

Years ago while I was in the process of deconverting, a guy I had a crush on (yes, I was married at the time, and no, we didn't do anything at all, but I did have a crush on him till I realized he was a wanker) got into Amway and tried to get me into it. This was before the internet, so I didn't really have a way to find out what it was like; my mom had done Amway in the late 70s and it hadn't seemed bad at the time. But wow, were my eyes opened quickly. The sheer deception that was required to succeed in "the business" was mind-blowing to me and within a short time I was very turned off. My friend was also dirt-poor like your friend; I had to lend him rent once, and he ended up seeing everything he owned pawned or repossessed, but he kept buying the tapes and attending seminars to "grow his business." I began to see that the type of person who gets attracted to this kind of pie-in-the-sky promise is the exact same type of person who buys into fundamentalism, not to put too fine a point on it; it's someone who wants to find the angle, the shortcut to success, somewhere he can just think positively and do what he's told and discover riches beyond belief. Evidence is "stinkin' thinkin'" (the exact quote his upline used) and to be avoided at all costs. Now that I think of it, the things I saw about Amway were likely very influential in my decision to leave Christianity.

[Will02]

My friend was also dirt-poor like your friend; I had to lend him rent once, and he ended up seeing everything he owned pawned or repossessed, but he kept buying the tapes and attending seminars to "grow his business."

 

I'm not surprised. The seminar and tape scam is how the guys on top make their money. You don't think they actually sold soap, did you? They get the new converts brainwashed and start selling tapes and books to them...BOOM! Instant built-in market. I remember seeing where one guy did the math... to make it to the top by selling soap and other things, you would need a huge consumer base (as in a big chunk of the total USA population) to buy regularly from you and only you. Failure is all but guaranteed, unless you're the greatest salesperson who ever lived.

[Akheia]

Yeah, this guy was not the greatest salesman by a longshot! Remember the spoon-licking guy from that Greek movie? My friend genuinely thought that move soaked panties. Realizing that broke me out of the crush before anything awkward even got discussed. I dodged a bullet there! Years later he found me on a gaming site, confessed he thought I was his one true love, and said he was still in Amway and a Christian. It was about as excruciating as you might think considering I was now totally out of church, in a long-term relationship, and by then well aware of the dangers of MLMs. Talk about magical thinking! Amway encourages such delusion, deception, and reliance on feelings over evidence just as much as evangelicalism does. Combine the two and things get explosively histrionic. No wonder so many folks fall for its siren call.

[Yrth]

So I have never heard of Amway and googled "wtf is Amway" and found this, which should be helpful for the other uninitiated:

Amway, which allegedly stands for the American Way [though I have heard another version of the story], is a multilevel marketing company that sells products ranging from laundry detergent to televisions. The got their start selling the first concentrated laundry detergent generally available, which at the time offered a signficant sales advantage and was probably a good buy. But they have always been overpriced generally.

 

Speaking from my own experiences: Amway is not a pyramid because the number of tiers is finite, and they do actually sell product. Many people falsely believe that the downline - people whom you have sponsored into the business, and everyone they have sponsored, and everyone they have sponsored - is infinite, but there is a cut-off based on monthly sales figures. When someone in the downline goes direct, meaning that they get product directly from the factory instead of their upline, you lose their business and only get to count a fixed and small percentage of their sales. As they move farther up the ladder, IIRC, you lose them all together unless you continually advance beyond them.

 

I know that it is possible to make real money in Amway. And the proof of this is what finally turned me against Amway altogether. Money can be made in any number of ways. First, some people do actually just sell the product. But since they became non-competitive pricewise, I doubt this happens much any more. And even in Amway's hayday, this was never more that a small supplemental income. Next, money is made by selling product and starter kits to newcomers who are soon disillusioned, but who are constantly reminded that IF they are serious about the business, IF they are willing to do what it takes to become sucessful, then they will use the product. And the cult reference made earlier is exactly correct. I didn't see the cult side of this at first, but when I started meeting other people in the business, it was clearly a cult that worships the worst god of all: money. And that's where the real bucks are made - selling the love of money.

 

IMO and based on my observations, the big dirty secret about Amway is the source of wealth. Sure, the corporation makes money selling the product. But the upline, the diamonds, and double diamonds, and triple diamonds who inspire all of us mere mortals to be sucessful like them, only get a small percentage of the product sales. So they hold rallies where they show photos of their beautiful homes, cars, boats, and in particular, their motorhomes, and their trips to Hawaii, and they do everything possible to inspire greed. If you love your family you will do this. [see my diamonds?] If you aren't a loser, you will do this. [Look at my car.] If you are a winner, if you want to be sucessful, if you have what it takes to stand above the crowd, you can have all of this. [Don't you love your children?] And if you buy my books and tapes, and come to my rallies, I will inspire you to success.

 

And that is the secret. Why do they all have big expensive motorhomes? It is because they live in them! I remember looking up on the stage and noting the dark circles under our triple-diamond's eyes. And then it struck me that this rich man who allegedly retired at the age of 30 is trying to sell books and tapes in a hotel a thousand miles from his home, at 11 PM on a Saturday night.

 

Up until then I hadn't seen too much of this. But when I started doing well, the floodgates opened and I saw what Amway was really all about. It is a cult of greed that seeks to profit by inspiring more greed. It is a religion of money based on half-truths and spin; one that teaches that greed is good, and that money is all that we really want from life. And worst of all, they do this while hiding behind a smokescreen of family values and friendship. After all, if you love your friends, and if you love your family, then you want them to make money too!

 

As soon as I saw this, I couldn't stomach another minute of Amway.

http://www.physicsforums.com/archive/index.php/t-238910.html

[Akheia]

That about covers Amway. They crow about being their own bosses, but the lower level bots worked like dogs setting up talks and trying to sign people up. I like having my own business and I've done it before, but I'd vastly prefer something with an actual competitive product or service with a better return on the investment. Amway just sells dreams.

 

My friend took me to see his upline, who advised my friend to go visit the town exotic car dealership and sit in a fancy car to better visualize his future success. I asked if that wasn't just "name it and claim it" theology. Neither the upline nor my friend appreciated the "stinkin' thinkin'". A year later I met a manager at the same dealership and asked if he saw a lot of Ambots. His reaction was priceless--yes indeed, weekly. It was a joke around his office.

[blackpudd1n]

When I came home from the meeting, I told my partner that it was just Amway, and he burst out laughing. He was really pleased that I turned her down flat. We need to focus on our own shit right now. There is no way in hell that we're going to put off the next five years chasing some bullshit elusive dream when we have so much else we could be doing in the next five years.

 

My fiancee has found a niche market for his painting skills, and is in demand. He already has one client, with a huge job, and the guy loved his work so much that he started paying more than the original quote. Now he has other people asking for painting to be done, and has had to tell them that, until this big job is out of the way, he can only take on small ones.

 

I've got university at the moment, and that is a long-term goal, because I don't just want to get a degree, I want to go on and do a Ph.D. We are just beginning to have things happen. Why on earth we would put it all aside and focus on chasing something else, is just ridiculous. We don't really care about having money. We are happy right now, and both doing what we always wanted- my partner is painting and making money from it, and I am studying. We have all the money we need, because our bills are always paid, and we have a little left over to enjoy. We're even slowing building a little savings.

 

To us, we already have success. We have a solid foundation to build upon. So we will continue to build upon this foundation. And my financial goal is not to be rich, simply self-sufficient. In a few years, I would like to have about $6000 in savings, so that if the car breaks down, I can simply go and buy a new one. Buy a new fridge when it carks itself. My idea of self-sufficiency is living without credit cards, which we already do, and completely without debt, of which three out of five have been paid in the last couple of years, and without the need for loans. We're getting there with the living without loans- occaisionally I borrow $20 or so from mum and dad, but we always pay it back. These days, we only borrow when it means that we would be worse off if we didn't- like when I found a doona cover reduced from $180 to $40 due to the business going bust. We paid my parents back the next week.

 

The whole Amway deal is completely unsustainable and, quite frankly, teaches people poor money management. My credit card debt I continue to pay off, because I consider it a personal lesson. For me, it's about taking responsibility, even though I could have it wiped because I was suffering from bipolar when I spent the money and therefore a court would not hold me responsible for the money I spent. But I hold myself responsible. Amway teaches irresponsibilty and greed.

[blackpudd1n]

I did, however, find a really good site about Amway:

 

http://www.suburbia.com.au/~fun/amway/articles.htm

 

For anyone interested in really looking into it

[stryper]

Well Amway cults you into spending your money on books and tapes and functions to make yourself better while enriching the upline. The mantra is spend everything you can on books and tapes and functions. Prosperity gospel anyone?

 

However, I did get introduced to the Robert Kiyosaki books and actually learned how it is possible to become insanely wealthy from even modest means. It was actually those books that started the doubts. I could suddenly see that Amway wasn't the only way that I could improve my worthless life.

 

Funny how now I can look back and see the emotional manipulation in it. Yet couldn't see it when I was in it. Hmmmm....Kinda like religion.

[blackpudd1n]

That's the thing, though. How wealthy do we really need to be? And those who are really wealthy, are they any happier?

 

Self-sufficiency is enough for me. I appreciate what I have, and as I have everything I need, I don't worry about what I don't have. I don't want to end up constantly chasing after something.