Satan Or Jesus? That Is The Question

[LightForce]

Hello,

 

I have been away from this belief system for a very long time but in the meantime my family becomes more and more fanatical. There were many aspects of Christianity that didn't make sense to me, especially when I looked at my mother's life and how she would give God credit for everything she did or could do. She was already very insecure and this just added to her insecurity. At the time, I had no respect for her but now I see her has the person who showed me the way, in all of her insecurity.

 

I am not a sinner, thank you very much! How can anyone believe in such dribble?

 

On St. Patrick's Day, my 16 year old nephew, a Christian, shot himself. I hadn't seen him for over two years. Before going to my very rural hometown I talked to my mother on the phone. She told me that there was an adversary, the reason for my nephew's choice and that was Satan. While I was at the church, practicing the piano (I was to play for the memorial service), I talked to the secretary and she was rejoicing in my nephew's death. Many young people had come to the Lord. I told her I wasn't a fan of Satan's. Later, there was a book laying around at my sister's (the mom) house about depression and the battle with Satan.

 

I was wondering what lies my nephew was believing in order to feel his life wasn't worth living. It turns out the lies were from the pulpit.

 

I knew nothing of his depression or that he had a photographic memory, which means you don't forget anything, including pain. Pain just builds up. They took him to a therapist but it was most likely a Christian therapist who also believes Satan is the cause of depression.

 

I had depression for much of my adult life and it went away when I took MSM. Satan had nothing to do with it. If anything, the church caused me to have worse symptoms of depression.

 

I learned that I had lyme disease and now I am lyme free because of energy work. Jesus is not the healer. It is our minds that heal. It is their extreme belief system that gives them what they want or need. They do experience something, that is why they believe it but it is all based on fear and untruths.

 

I didn't really tell my story. For me, the story is of my nephew who took his own life because the mangled perspective that everyone around him had.

 

Do I believe in God? Maybe, I believe in the Universe. I do believe there is something powerful out there and it just might be me. We are all God. Jesus never existed. That I am pretty certain of and the bible is a book of myths manipulated by the Roman Catholic Church, a church that is considered unchristian. I have always questioned and I read both sides. You can know what you really believe unless you do read both sides.

 

Why do they need Satan anyway? Who cares about him? I don't. So what! Even if he did exist, I don't have to let him be part of my life. Has anyone looked at the website "Satan wrote the bible"? He wrote a pretty good essay. And I go on and on and on. It is a cult based on Satan, not Jesus, but Jesus is made up.

 

LightForce

[SoftIce]

Welcome to the forums, LightForce. I so so sorry to hear about what happened to your nephew. It also enrages me, because I too struggle with depression, and blaming it on 'Satan' while not treating it for what it is - a medical problem, is just horrendous.

 

All the best to you, my friend.

[Mitzer]

Welcome, LightForce. It's so sad what this religion can do to people. Sadder that otherwise normally rational and sane people can't (or won't?) see it. How sad your nephew is a victim and those closest to him who should have protected him couldn't recognize the problems that led to his sad action. I remember a hymn we used to sing in church, "What God Ordains Is Always Good". Why wasn't this God who's always ordainging good ordain some good for your nephew...or if not for him at least some wisdom imparted to his parents so they could help him?

Sad, so sad, the death of such a young person.

[LivingLife]

Welcome LightForce (cool name) Sorry about your nephew.

 

The reason satan was invented is because god does not exist and does not live up to alleged promises. God cannot be wrong so they need a scapegoat. It is very sad when folk are led to these extremes b/c other folk insist on believing in godz and that they somehow care if we do stuff esp of a sexual nature; which seems to be the prima focus of the church.

 

It is high time they reinvent themselves and stop this hell and satan doctrine as it really is NOT what the bible says, a mere convenient mistranslation and heavily influenced by Dante's Inferno novel.

 

Really sucks that some one would glory in death just because he "gave his life to jeebus". Just goes to show how much of a death cult xianity really is.

 

Be strong.

[LightForce]

I don't believe that Satan exists, except in the minds of the people who choose to believe he does but I would not say that God, the Divine, or the Universe does not exist. Quantum Physics are proving that there is something that is guiding us.

 

Check out morphic fields, Christianity is a huge and powerful morphic field. Everything has a morphic field.

 

I had miraculous healing from lyme disease just by someone finding where it was in my body and saying, "I need an ALL CLEAR ......" I am happy for the first time and see everything as useful.

 

My nephew came to be his mother's teacher just as my son came to be my teacher. I got off easy because I listened. It is clear that this focus on Satan played a role in his personal choice.

 

Check out Rupert Sheldrake, Bruce Lipton and Gregg Braden for the New Science. They can't get funding because so much money is wrapped up in institutions that are based on the wrong science model. Sheldrake and Lipton have a terrific YouTube together. There are Russian scientists who have studies to prove that it is our thoughts and language that heal. I have experienced this personally, over and over.

 

I refrain from making any judgement statements that are potentially harmful. Our lesson is to have compassion and understanding. They know not what they do.

 

I'm not an either/or person. I look for truth and don't care where I find it.

[Spectrox]

Sorry for your loss, LightFoot.

 

I think it's fair to say that the serpent in Genesis had more integrity than God who didn't tell Adam and Eve the whole truth and then kicked them out of Eden for learning the difference between obedience and disobedience and gaining knowledge (of good and evil).

 

Is LightFoot a Dr Who reference perchance?

[Akheia]

Welcome, LightForce, and please know you have my condolences for the loss of your nephew. It's so heartbreaking to hear what Christianity does to young minds.

 

Edited to fix name. I'm so sorry!!

[mcdaddy]

^^^^^^^ Its LightFORCE. not foot. just sayin.

[Eugene39]

Hi, LightForce, thanks for joining us. Am glad you're not a part of that crazy belief system.

While I was at the church, practicing the piano (I was to play for the memorial service), I talked to the secretary and she was rejoicing in my nephew's death.

Sadness, anger, disbelief - just emotions that I'm feeling trying to process the secretary's feelings.

[riddick]

Thank you for posting your story lightforce, I'm sorry to hear about your nephew. It saddens me that Christians blame Satan for depression or any other illness like that. And this situation (and many like it) could of been prevented by getting professional help.

 

Give all glory to god and nothing to yourself, cause you are rubbish, you are sinful, what a load of rubbish, and what it does to peoples self esteem and insecurities, it should be criminal, it's just another form of mental torture. It fucking sickens me.

 

Sorry for the swearing.

[jackbauer]

Oh this is a sour spot for me. Depression and Christianity do not mix, especially the fundamentalist variety. Any "help" that's offered usually makes the situation worse I've actually heard Christ tards criticize psychology for not acknowledging people's sins!!! These delusional and ignorant fuckers are actually discouraging people from getting the help they need and encouraging them to stay in the abusive relationship known as Christianity. Then when things go sour, they blame the victim.

 

 

I'm so sorry this had to happen. Fuck Christianity and fuck their ignorance.

[LightForce]

Thank you for your words of condolences.

 

My purpose of posting my story is not to add to fuel hate towards them. For some reason, people find their truth in the wrong places. It is not my place to judge. It is the process of knowing was feels right to me that has brought me to a greater understanding of this cult. My nephew's death reminded me of my own life during that time in my life. I never was a 'good' Christian, never prayed, nor did I read the bible. I loved the music and the social aspect. I felt disliked by most everyone.

 

One is never good enough. That sucks big time and is one of the reasons why their belief system doesn't work for me. I love Ho'oponopono, which says we are pure and perfect. It is only our memories, data, programs that need cleaning. You clean them by thinking/saying, to your Inner Child, "I'm sorry, Please forgive me, Thank you, I love you". Loving yourself is far more important than loving others or God (God is you) because when you love yourself, you love others. There is NO judgement, of you or others with Ho'oponopono and it heals you. Its not a religion.

 

My life is about vibrations and frequencies now. That is all we are, frequencies and vibrations. The reason why Christians 'feel Jesus' love" is because of the music. Music is vibrations that resonate with our bodies, our minds and it is healing. You go into a different plane. We know all about that feeling. It exists. You see people lose themselves in music all of the time. They mistake it for the Love of Jesus. They also know how to pray themselves into a delirium. They let go, have no inhibitions, and truly feel something. You don't need God or Jesus to have that experience. You also don't need God or Jesus to he healed or heal. You don't even have to be a good person.

 

I can imagine what it was like to be my nephew. He loved Jesus but he felt like he was pathetic. He didn't deserve to have Jesus. He was a talented athlete, could pull a 4.0 without blinking an eye and no one let him forget how smart he was. He lived in a small valley that is stunningly beautiful but excessively conservative. I know what it is like to not be able to reconcile who I was with who I was supposed to be.

 

How can these people believe in a faith that keeps you away from your loved ones who don't believe as you do? Christianity never fit the real world, so I ditched it. I remember the first time I talked to a non-believer and was surprised to find out he did make sense, he could think rationally.

 

I had the good fortune of being forgotten by my Sunday school group for a dinner. At the time, I was devastated but it became a reminder of the lack of love really is in that church. I missed on Sunday and at the following Sunday, everyone was talking about how much fun they had at the dinner. I was going through a divorce and was particularly lonely.

 

As I go on and on. Everything is useful. It isn't useful to be resentful nor to be angry at these people who have lost their way. We are only responsible for ourselves. Whatever we think belongs to us and becomes our reality. I chose to have a reality that is filled with caring, understanding, peace, joy, love, gratitude and Wholeness but it took many years of processing to get to this point.

 

This is a nice group and I am proud to be an Ex-Christian.

 

LightForce

[Akheia]

Thanks, and we're glad to have you! It does sound like that church has some trouble with follow-through--but a lot of churches do. I felt forgotten many times myself, especially since I wasn't completely toeing the line. At the time, I tried not to care, since I figured a few decades on earth meant nothing before eternity, but it definitely wasn't fun not being part of the in crowd.

[Margee]

Welcome LightForce. Thank you for sharing that very sad personal story. i am so sorry you had to endure this type of pain.

 

It always grieves me to know that someone this young does not feel hope and would not see any future for himself....He is at peace now.....

 

The church stole from me. I know so much more now that i am older. I look back in my 20's and see a girl who constantly went around looking over my shoulder for Satan. What a horrible concept!!

Satan was invented by ancient people to try and decribe the 'negative' on earth...... It couldn't be the goodness of god, so surley it must be the evil spirit that goes against him. I believed that crap for years.

 

I am glad you are here with us. Why not start a topic in the 'spirituality' forum on what you are studying? There's a few of us that would probably respond.....We've been talking about it in other threads.

 

Looking forward to hearing more from you!

Sincerely, Margee

[jdog]

Hi Lightforce, I like your name too. It is tragic what happened with your nephew and I am sorry.

I suffer with depression but am currently doing ok. But in the past when the depression was particularly bad I had a Christian friend who was adamant that it was satan who was "attacking" me and trying to pull me away from God. Well what was going on at that particlar time was I was close to deconverting. I was depressed because I was at the stage where I realized that I had been believing a lie and it was a sad and terrible time for me. I didn't actually tell her my doubts but really "satan" was just me beginning to think and that is the reason why I was pulling away from "god".

[LightForce]

I was depressed for much of my adult life, so I know enough about it to be an 'expert'. I took MSM and my depression went away. I didn't know I had lyme which is known to make one depressed. When I wore braces on my teeth when I was in my thirties, I went into a deep depression where I didn't care if I lived. My nephew had braces besides being probably hypothyroid. This view of Satan being responsible for depression is superstitious and ignorant. The earth is not flat.

 

I can't believe that any reasonable person would think about it in this way. I knew at the age of 13 or 14 that this was bogus. Maybe the lyme helped me to see things differently.

[marmot]

I enjoyed reading your story and I am sorry for the loss of your nephew. These are the events that remind me that Christianity is not some harmless belief and that it can't hurt anyone.

 

I am curious by what you mean when you say

 

I had miraculous healing from lyme disease just by someone finding where it was in my body and saying, "I need an ALL CLEAR ......" I am happy for the first time and see everything as useful.

 

and

 

I learned that I had lyme disease and now I am lyme free because of energy work.

 

I'm not looking to start an argument, I'm just really confused at what these vague references to Lyme's disease mean.

[LightForce]

Its ok to ask. I can tell that you are friendly.

 

How is it vague?

 

Because of my experience of becoming lyme free through energy work (NMT) I realized that prayer is a form of energy work. It sometimes does work but most of the time it doesn't because of they way they pray. It is the belief that makes it possible, not Jesus or God. It is our thoughts, finding the true reason for a problem and telling it to leave.

 

There is a reason why people stay Christians. it is because they feel something and sometimes healing occurs. Any healing that doesn't include Jesus is from the Devil, although they go to medical doctors without any issues. My mother placed her hand on a man's hand which was on his leg that hurt and his pain went away when she said peace. Healing does happen. Some people are born healers. There is Braco, Adam, Richard Bartlett, Dr. Kam Yuen, Dr. Garcia, Jyoti and more.

 

My point is that even though Christianity is fanatical and harmful, it utilizes energy communication unknowingly. It was my own healing experience that helped me understand that.

 

Does that make sense?

[marmot]

It makes more sense. I am overly skeptical about claims of healings (Christian and other), and I was not sure if you were claiming you were healed. I have never heard of energy work/NMT before, but I see what you are saying about prayer unwittingly using this method. I tend towards being a naturalist (I am a science teacher) so I do not believe in things like healing, I was just curious. Thanks!

 

I agree that one of the reasons people stay Christians (or Muslim, Hindu etc.) is the "religious experience". I was never a charismatic/Pentecostal but I did believe I had experienced God's presence in some ways it was a very real feeling to me at the time.

[LightForce]

Marmot,

 

I would be lying if I said I hadn't received healing. It was like flipping the light switch. Had nothing to do with God. If you are a science teacher then take a look at Rupert Sheldrake, Bruce Lipton and Gregg Braden and quantum physics and morphic fields.

 

I went from hardly getting dinner on the table to doing heavy landscaper/garden work but best of all, I went through many perspective shifts. I don't see things in the negative. I never thought it were possible. I am happy for the first time. Something else I thought were never possible.

 

We are just energy. It comes in different frequencies. Thoughts are energy. It all started with me when I experienced healing from the cold laser, which is just frequency. It evolved to something that has given me my life back. No religion is involved.

 

I don't have a lot of time to write, so what i have written is rather disjointed.

 

I've never been one to tell someone else that they didn't really have their personal experience, instead, it has intrigued me. It is this point of view that has kept me looking for answers. It really became necessary in order to help my son. My Yuen practitioner worked on gene mutations for him last week and he ended up with a headache and his body temp went up a couple degrees. It was wonderful.

 

There is much about the world that we don't know about and most of mainstream populations are trained to just follow. We aren't taught to ask questions, nor are we allowed to make mistakes. It is through our mistakes that we learn. Being a Christian was not a mistake, it was a stepping stone to something greater. I am so thankful that it wasn't a good fit for me. It wasn't meant to be but I'm certain I was supposed to be raised that way, just as it was important for me to get lyme. Lyme changed my point of view, made me smarter in some ways.

 

Everything that happens to us is useful. That is my point of view and need not be anyone else's. We are all at different places in our paths. I don't take yours from you but this one is mine and it is very real.

[goddessofwit]

LightForce,

I am very interested in learning more about this "energy" business. I believe there might be something to "believing"...though I hesitate to use words like "prayer". All christian lingo has become a bad word to me. But that is just semantics and a possible chip on my shoulder since christianity stole 24 years of my life. My bad tho, cuz I wasn't willing to grow a brain during that time. It's called being brain washed from a very early age.

 

Jack, I was one of those "Christ tards". I can really get ugly with my words about christians and christianity behind closed doors. I have so much venom and anger towards it. I really believe it is for people who are handicapped in the brain. People who refuse to think. But they do not know this. I did not know this about myself. I hope you (myself included) can be kinder and gentler towards those who are victims of this system. There is still hope for such people to wake up, as I did. But the system itself can go to fu*king hell.

[Suzanne]

LightForce,

 

Thank you very much for your story. It's saddening to hear how much negative influence Christianity has had on your family. I'm sorry for your loss.

 

I liked reading about Ho'oponopono. While I tend to be rather skeptic in general, I think that mantra (I'm sorry, please forgive me, thank you, I love you) is a very useful concept. I for one have a lot of things that still need working on - a lot of anger and sadness that I was already planning to meditate about, and this mantra may be just what I need to help me with that. I think I'm going to read a bit more about this. Thank you, I had never heard of it before.