What Skeptics Must Do In Order To Be Heard

[TrueFreedom]

From http://debunkingchristianity.blogspot.com/:

 

Former Pastor Turned Atheist Writes a Letter to the Skeptical Community

 

http://debunkingchristianity.blogspot.com/2012/05/former-pastor-turned-atheist-writes.html

[★ Citsonga ★]

Thanks for posting this. I agree with most of what he said, but I have to take issue with the very first point:

 

First, the skeptic community must change how it is perceived. As long as they are perceived as arrogant, argumentative, educated god-haters, the people who make up the majority in the United States will turn a deaf ear and blind eye to them.

 

The most polite and humble skeptic you could find would still be perceived as an arrogant god-hater by the average fundamentalist Christian. Try as we might to change that, the simple fact is that they perceive things through the lens of indoctrination.

[TrueFreedom]

@Citsonga: I agree. That's why I've been trying to figure out a more subversive method.

[Positivist]

Thanks for posting. I think this is really good advice. Atheists certainly have a really bad reputation, at least among fundagelicals.

 

I wonder how this image problem can change.

[florduh]

First, the skeptic community must change how it is perceived.

That isn't up to us.

 

Besides, I don't want to be perceived or heard. I just want them to leave me alone.

[TrueFreedom]

@florduh: I appreciate you for who you are, but some of us would like to try to mentor those who may one day stand on our shoulders.

[florduh]

@florduh: I appreciate you for who you are, but some of us would like to try to mentor those who may one day stand on our shoulders.

I guess you need a longer answer.

 

I don't feel it is the role of a skeptic to convert believers. Preaching the good news is something they do, and it's obnoxious. People who ultimately lose their religion do so because of their own questioning, not because a skeptic convinced them.

 

There is nothing we can do to make believers see us as a reasonable alternative. We hate God and must be preached at and saved or shunned and avoided out of fear our rationality might rub off.

 

All we can do is live lives we can be proud of and make information available to those who are ready to question their faith. There is no way to make non-belief popular or even palatable. Pushing the agenda in even the kindest, sweetest way will still leave you labeled an apostate, heathen, Satanist or, at best, a prospect who never heard the true meaning of following Jesus.

 

I guess my idea of "mentoring" is different.

[Chikirin]

People don't like getting their feathers ruffled, but I don't see any way around it. Non-christians were constantly making me feel stupid for being a christian. I didn't enjoy it at the time, but I think it was necessary.

[★ Citsonga ★]

That story illustrates the point I have made on here. On the Christian side of the ledger, you have the 'Holier-than-thou' crowd. On the Ex-Christian/Skeptic side you have the 'I'm-more-enlightened-than-thou' crowd. Both come across as complete dickheads.

 

There are plenty christians who are of the "I'm-more-enlightened-than-thou" crowd. Just look at all the silly religious jokes calling nonbelievers "fools."

 

I do agree that we shouldn't be jerks to people (for example, one of my few complaints about Dan Barker's mostly good book "Godless" is that Richard Dawkins' foreword has a condescending remark or two in it). Even if every single one of us was of the most polite character, though, there would still be plenty religious people calling us arrogant god-haters. You can't win with those who can't think outside the box of indoctrination.

[Thought2Much]

Even if every single one of us was of the most polite character, though, there would still be plenty religious people calling us arrogant god-haters. You can't win with those who can't think outside the box of indoctrination.

 

This. Just saying, "You know, I think that the scientists may be correct about the age of the earth being 4.6 billion years old, and they seem to have plenty of evidence to support that claim" is enough to send a fundy into apoplectic fits. Saying this to a fundy will get instant replies along the lines of, "What? You reject God's word in the Bible?" or "Why do you hate God?" Simply not believing the silly stories in their ancient book is enough in their minds to justify hatred on their part.

[TrueFreedom]

Sometimes you can bring up something that a fundy is likely to agree with and plant a seed. They do tend to be pretty defensive of their biblical literalism though.

[TrueFreedom]

I'm not sure if this is worth a new thread on science and religion, but I just started one for this.

 

RE:

 

Dr. Tyson posted this on facebook today:

 

"Thanks for all your candid comments on this wall regarding my short atheism-agnosticim clip on "Big Think". I found them illuminating for their breadth as well as their depth. I note a few other possibly unexpected things about me: Not only do I not embrace labels, you will never see me debating people on the subjects of UFOs, Religion, Alternative Health practices, Astrology, or Pseudoscience in general. My speeches at TAM 6 & 9 were given reluctantly (I don't normally attend). I don't sign petitions. I don't write to, or lobby congress (although I am happy to testify when asked). I don't lead or participate in rallies. I don't picket. And I don't publicly align with organized causes. Meanwhile, labels and causes have, now and then, aligned themselves with me. In any case, I'm rather specific about how I invest my energies. As an educator, I have found that people are more receptive to learning when they know you don't have an agenda, and when they determine that your goal is to teach them how to think rather than what to think. Such is the universe I have created for myself. -NDTyson"