Crow Posted May 5, 2012 Share Posted May 5, 2012 My mind tells me that the Bible and God and church are not true. Indoctrination since birth tells me otherwise. This is extremely painful. I have a wife and two kids(boys 11 and 16), my wife has applied for forum membership as well. She is going through some of the same feelings as me but more anger. The handle she used was Luna81. No matter which way I view this I'm screwed. If I continue with Christianity I will feel guilt for indoctrinating my kids further. If I'm honest about what is real I feel guilt for putting their souls in danger of imaginary hell. Silly, isn't it. It's hard to put words to the guilt. Christian guilt, unworthiness, "that's just the Holy Spirit convicting you." Bull shit but I still suffer it. Respect your parents, fear your parents. But they're manipulative assholes that have been terrible to my family and especially my wife. At this point if God is real and Jesus and all that then they're sadistic evil entities that get off on the torture of much smaller creatures. But the guilt for feeling this way is crushing, the fear of an imaginary hell is real. I'm a preachers kid, although he died when I was young. My mother re-married and my step-father (a deacon) is very religious as well. They now go to a church that is starting to be downright cultic. All of my family is very Southern Baptist with some other protestant thrown in. They are very controlling and I've always kind of been the black sheep, although being the oldest of my generation and the preachers son and all that: I was expected to be the golden boy. There are zero non-believers in my extended family. There are three or four preachers, one of whom was a missionary. My brother-in-law is a preachers kid as well. My immediate family (wife and kids), and I are night owls. I work nights, in the summer it is not unusual for us to all eat dinner at 1 am. We've been told this is sinful. One uncle said once on the subject of diet that "How much did Jesus eat? He ate and ate until one more bite would have been a sin then he stopped." WTF? that actually makes sense in Christian logic but think about it some more and it is really warped. I ran the soundboard and powerpoint, my wife has been youth leader, children's choir, soloist. We both helped alot with VBS. I feel that it has all been a total waste of time. My wife is really upset that her effort has been wasted. We should have not moved back to my hometown and lost the last 10 years. We've finally bought a house and live in different county now. We are dirty smokers that had a child out of wedlock. Oldest son is actually my stepson, we got married about six months after the youngest boy was born. Gasp, I married an older, divorced woman. That has always been an issue with my mother. This is all pretty incoherent. But I'm having trouble keeping my thoughts organized on the subject, I just need to get some of it out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Positivist Posted May 5, 2012 Share Posted May 5, 2012 Stick around Crow. You'll find your way..... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted May 5, 2012 Share Posted May 5, 2012 Welcome to Ex-c. Feel free to unload. Guilt and fear are the big two control factors in Christianity. I had to turn against 'god' to dump the guilt of thought sins. He didn't seem to care. :-) It sounds to me as if your family is more important to you than the imaginary jesus. That's a good thing. :-) You're in good company at Ex-c. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue elephant Posted May 5, 2012 Share Posted May 5, 2012 Hi Crow Welcome to Ex-Christian! It is all scary at first when you decide that you can't believe that stuff anymore. There are lots of people on these forums that are surrounded by judgemental, religious relatives and communities. Keep talking. It all gets easier! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LivingLife Posted May 5, 2012 Share Posted May 5, 2012 Welcome, no advice but trust me it is all BS. (not the advice ) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcdaddy Posted May 5, 2012 Share Posted May 5, 2012 These people in your family that think they know every F'ing thing about Jesus...they don't. They don't know anything Jesus said or did. They only know what other people SAID he said or did. they're trusting dead people that lived 2000+ years ago that were uneducated and superstitious to accurately relay pertinent information, and trusting scribes to accurately copy the text over 2000 years (which they didn't). If they actually read what textual criticism and archaeology has discovered over the last 100 years, they'd realize they don't know SHIT. Personally, I think Jesus is basically a mythical character. I could be wrong. May have been some dude it's loosely based on. But even if he did exist, the NT is 100% based on the OT being true, which I reject wholesale as the worship of a volcano deity by some barbaric tribal people who initially were polytheists until they were run over by other peoples and thought they were being punished by their primary deity. So, that's where I stand I guess. Too bad Christians don't know as much about their religion as ex-C's do. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator buffettphan Posted May 5, 2012 Super Moderator Share Posted May 5, 2012 Welcome to Ex-C! You've found a great website with a bunch of wonderful, understanding people to work through all the christinsanity. This place is a sanctuary, especially to those of us surrounded by nothing but christians in real life! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Margee Posted May 5, 2012 Moderator Share Posted May 5, 2012 welcome Crow! Looking forward to meeting your 'older' wife!! LOL! You are home. Stay here with us. We came with all the same baggage! Read, read, read..the hundreds of posts here. You will relate to them all. This is what I do when fear grips me every now and agian: God made the whole universe.... god made man out of dust....god asked the man to pick an animal for a mate... man didn't find a suitable mate, so god puts the man asleep and then... god made woman from a man's rib...... god then puts them in a garden with a talking snake and allowed them to be tempted..... they are not allowed to know 'knowlegde' between good and evil...... the serpent tempts them, they eat off that one tree and then god curses his creation to have a very hard life on earth. The whole insane story leads to where he sacrificed his own son as a 'human sacrifice'. Now we drink his blood and eat his body to remember him.......... .....sounds kinda 'tribal' to me. There must have been an easier way for the creator of the whole universe to concoct some other 'plan' for his creation??? After all, he is god??? Read Genisis over and over and you tell me if this is a story made up by tribal, ancient people or is is the 'spoken word of god'. I once believed all this whole heartedly! I was born in sin and needed a savior!! Welcome to the world of questioners like yourself!! You never have to be alone again!! Sincerely, Margee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackpudd1n Posted May 5, 2012 Share Posted May 5, 2012 Welcome, Crow, and to Luna81, your wife, too. The fear, guilt, and anger stage sucks badly, but it does get better. Deconverting is a process, it doesn't happen overnight, and you two are on your journey to freedom now. It's not an easy journey, but it is so totally worth it, let me tell you. It saddened to me to hear how your extended family is so deep into christianity. Christians think they are persecuted, but they should try being an atheist in a deeply religious family. Thing is, you can't unlearn what you have learnt. And for me, freedom from guilt and fear is so much better than toeing the line I hope you both find peace within yourselves. We're here for you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
♦ ficino ♦ Posted May 5, 2012 Share Posted May 5, 2012 Hello Crow, and welcome (and Luna). I too think that it takes time for deeply learned emotional responses to fade, but time helps by covering them over with new responses, so the old ones lose their power (and probably the connections in your brain actually change). Distance is really important, so it's good that you live in another country. I'm guessing that in Alabama that entails some distance geographically and maybe w/ emotional connotations, too. It sounds as though more of the power of Christianity for you is from your family and surrounding community than from its own message, since you've seen through that. All the analytical reasoning you bring to the Bible and to the religion's doctrines, the better for your feeling of freedom from its emotional hold. I think the more squarely you look at what it teaches and how it operates, the weaker your sense of guilt will become, esp. about not indoctrinating your kids. My family is very religious, too - Methodist preachers from my greatgrandfather back to the first days of Methodism, and my grandfather, father, sister, aunt and everyone else were or are fundies (though my father is fundy in his own individual dotty religion). It's very hard to stand against the family. But you know you have your family, Luna and your children, who come first. Stick around. Lots of wisdom and empathy here. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deva Posted May 5, 2012 Share Posted May 5, 2012 Welcome Crow! Please hang around and post your thoughts. Never mind if its incoherent or not. Most of us here know what it is like to be isolated from family and know very few people in real life that are not Christians. This place is our refuge. I come from a Baptist family as well. I don't know if controlling-type people are drawn to this type of religion or if it creates them - maybe both, but my father is very controlling (he is a deacon). I live far away from them and if I did not I would have a tough time finding my own way. It takes time to overcome an upbringing such as you describe. All you can do is look to the future - inevitably a much brighter one since you have discovered what a sham Christianity is and learn that you can free your mind from its hold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spectrox Posted May 5, 2012 Share Posted May 5, 2012 My mind tells me that the Bible and God and church are not true. Indoctrination since birth tells me otherwise. This is extremely painful. I have a wife and two kids(boys 11 and 16), my wife has applied for forum membership as well. She is going through some of the same feelings as me but more anger. The handle she used was Luna81. No matter which way I view this I'm screwed. If I continue with Christianity I will feel guilt for indoctrinating my kids further. If I'm honest about what is real I feel guilt for putting their souls in danger of imaginary hell. Silly, isn't it. It's hard to put words to the guilt. Christian guilt, unworthiness, "that's just the Holy Spirit convicting you." Bull shit but I still suffer it. Respect your parents, fear your parents. But they're manipulative assholes that have been terrible to my family and especially my wife. At this point if God is real and Jesus and all that then they're sadistic evil entities that get off on the torture of much smaller creatures. But the guilt for feeling this way is crushing, the fear of an imaginary hell is real. I'm a preachers kid, although he died when I was young. My mother re-married and my step-father (a deacon) is very religious as well. They now go to a church that is starting to be downright cultic. All of my family is very Southern Baptist with some other protestant thrown in. They are very controlling and I've always kind of been the black sheep, although being the oldest of my generation and the preachers son and all that: I was expected to be the golden boy. There are zero non-believers in my extended family. There are three or four preachers, one of whom was a missionary. My brother-in-law is a preachers kid as well. My immediate family (wife and kids), and I are night owls. I work nights, in the summer it is not unusual for us to all eat dinner at 1 am. We've been told this is sinful. One uncle said once on the subject of diet that "How much did Jesus eat? He ate and ate until one more bite would have been a sin then he stopped." WTF? that actually makes sense in Christian logic but think about it some more and it is really warped. I ran the soundboard and powerpoint, my wife has been youth leader, children's choir, soloist. We both helped alot with VBS. I feel that it has all been a total waste of time. My wife is really upset that her effort has been wasted. We should have not moved back to my hometown and lost the last 10 years. We've finally bought a house and live in different county now. We are dirty smokers that had a child out of wedlock. Oldest son is actually my stepson, we got married about six months after the youngest boy was born. Gasp, I married an older, divorced woman. That has always been an issue with my mother. This is all pretty incoherent. But I'm having trouble keeping my thoughts organized on the subject, I just need to get some of it out there. A journey of a thousand miles begins with the first step - and you have taken it. Well done for being honest and identifying your sense of true morality. The origin of the word "sin" is simply "missing the mark" or "off target" so in a sense overeating (and undereating) are missing the optimum balance point of what your body needs. As is eating the wrong type of food! But so what? None of what I've just said is Biblical. It's just non-judgemental common sense. Overcoming negative social programming is a massive struggle for many people, particularly ex-Christians. All you can do is your best. You cannot possibly do any more. I know a few people who have become ex-christian when they had kids. Because they recognised within themselves what constitutes good parenting and authentic love. The Biblical God has none of these qualities. He just wants to send people to Hell for not being a mindless sycophant to his boring tome. Everyone on this site is better than this - even the Christian apologists! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GardenerGal Posted May 5, 2012 Share Posted May 5, 2012 Welcome Crow! Please hang around and post your thoughts. Never mind if its incoherent or not. Most of us here know what it is like to be isolated from family and know very few people in real life that are not Christians. This place is our refuge. I come from a Baptist family as well. I don't know if controlling-type people are drawn to this type of religion or if it creates them - maybe both, but my father is very controlling (he is a deacon). I live far away from them and if I did not I would have a tough time finding my own way. It takes time to overcome an upbringing such as you describe. All you can do is look to the future - inevitably a much brighter one since you have discovered what a sham Christianity is and learn that you can free your mind from its hold. That could be true - I would also say strong personalities in general are usually drawn to strong doctrine. I know I was drawn to our baptist church because I was/am a hot or cold person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GardenerGal Posted May 5, 2012 Share Posted May 5, 2012 My mind tells me that the Bible and God and church are not true. Indoctrination since birth tells me otherwise. This is extremely painful. This is a painful journey. But if we aren't being authentic with ourselves, then we will be miserable. Which might explain all the crabby pew-warmers around town. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asanerman Posted May 5, 2012 Share Posted May 5, 2012 Crow, I read just this morning these words from Osho: A Buddha is a Buddha, (and I would add, A Christ is a Christ) a Krishna is a Krishna and you are you. And you are not in any way less than anybody else. Respect yourself, your own inner voice and follow it. ~ from Courage The Joy of Living Dangerously Following our inner voice does not guarantee that we will always recognize truth. If the truth be known, we enter many "false" doors before we stumble upon a "true" opening! But honestly, that's how it is! No guarantees, no saviors but maybe a human hand to help lift you from a fall! And as Osho states: "...Remember, in the ultimate reckoning no effort is ever wasted; all efforts contribute to the ultimate climax of your growth." (ibid) A sweet reminder to those of us who from time to time find ourselves completely screwed, tired and weary, needing a helping hand! The natural and habitual bent of the fundamentalist army of God is to "shot" its wounded! May you find reprieve from the "shooting" here at Ex-c as you re-member (reconstruct) and respect yourself and your family! Welcome! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crow Posted May 5, 2012 Author Share Posted May 5, 2012 Thank you all for the encouraging messages. I plan on writing a more coherent extimony later when I've settled some. My wife and I have seen some truly insane/evil things in our time as Christians. She'll be busy until later today, I'm encouraging her to post here as I feel it will do her some good. (and me too, I feel like it's easier to write things down sometimes than to try and talk about it.) ficino- We just moved a county over, but it does help a lot. We have moved near Huntsville, which is the least judgemental/religious place in Alabama. In fact we're going to a gay club tonight as part of a team my wife is involved in. It's strange how freeing really leaving this stuff behind is. Robert A. Heinlein has had a lot to do with me finally admitting how I've changed in my views. The book Job, a Comedy of Justice was really influential. If there are any sci-fi/fantasy fans out there you should really check this book out, it truly shows the farcical nature of christianity. It's strange because at times you couldn't find a more anti-gay, literal creationist, self-blinded person than me. It feels wonderful in some ways because all these things I've been trying to justify to myself, that worldview, can finally fall away. Christians are supposed to be non-judgmental, cast the first stone, judge not lest ye be judged and all that. But they are so very judgemental. Want to be gay, fine. Polyamorous, fine. Group marriage, fine. I've felt for a long time that inter-racial marriage is just fine too, but feeling that way in Southern Baptist church will damn near get you stoned. I've heard that the most segregated place in modern america is the church. Don't know if it's true, but it sure sounds right. None of that has any bearing on how me and my family live our lives, whatever works for you, and doesn't infringe on another's rights, do it. None of my business. Anyways, my wife and I feel that we have done a lot of damage to ourselves. When we met she was practising a form of Wicca, and I was involved in something close to that as well (more a form of rebellion against my raising than anything deep). I don't think I can believe in any of it anymore, but it will give my wife the freedom to seek what she really believes now. About the most I believe now is that we humans have common symbols that have the power to influence what we think and feel. These symbols being a product of our collective evolution as sentient beings, and your symbology may have different meaning than mine. Anyways, currently we are agonizing about how to tell the children. Especially the youngest, (who is 10 not 11, my wife informs me ) as he is probably more indoctrinated than the older. There has been a pattern of reward based religion with him from my family. We are probably not going to tell my family as they may try and harm us (my wife will probably tell more about this, some of the stunts they've pulled are jaw-dropping). I'm also afraid to tell them as it might kill my grandfather, I'm blamed for his first heart-attack as a result of some of my late teenage rebellion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legion Posted May 5, 2012 Share Posted May 5, 2012 Crow, if you will, I'd like to share something with you that I told my stepdad some time ago. He's historically been a fundamentalist, but seems to be going through a variety of transformations as of late. I once told him that new understandings can alter or void previously made contracts and oaths. I was expecting him to resist this assertion, but after a moment's thought he agreed. I think this is likely a relevant thing to bear in mind for those who may be entering the process of deconversion. As you experience more of life and learn and your understanding grows, old oaths and alliances may reasonably be changed. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jblueep Posted May 5, 2012 Share Posted May 5, 2012 Welcome Crow and Luna! My wife (2Honest) and deconverted 7 months ago after more than three decades of Christianity. We have 15 and 17 year old teenagers. They have deconverted too. We are now a 100% free thinking family. I say this to encourage you that everything can change for the better in a very short time. We agonized about telling the kids too, but in the end, it was no big deal and much easier than we thought. IMO, you are suffering from cognitive dissonance...two competing realities/beliefs. On one hand, you know what is true and on the other you believe(d) what is true. My advice would be to reconcile this as quickly as possible, i.e. fully embrace the truth and erase the dissonance. The EX-C members here are loving and ready to support you and your family through this as much as you would like. J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crow Posted May 5, 2012 Author Share Posted May 5, 2012 Crow, if you will, I'd like to share something with you that I told my stepdad some time ago. He's historically been a fundamentalist, but seems to be going through a variety of transformations as of late. I once told him that new understandings can alter or void previously made contracts and oaths. I was expecting him to resist this assertion, but after a moment's thought he agreed. I think this is likely a relevant thing to bear in mind for those who may be entering the process of deconversion. As you experience more of life and learn and your understanding grows, old oaths and alliances may reasonably be changed. If I'm understanding the gist of what you're saying, no, I don't expect my marriage to change from its current hetero monogamous state. Neither of us have any homosexual or polyamourous leanings, although that is a part of one of the social circles we've started running in. The organization is an amateur female sports team, and given the nature of it, she has a fair number of lesbian teammates. I was writing more about how odd this all felt not to want to feel judgemental in social situtations that are anathema to any right-thinking proper Southern Baptist. I actually expect our deconversion to greatly strengthen our marriage, because now we will be honestly able to pursue what feels real to us spirtually. Although I doubt I will ever be involved in anything approaching organized religon, I can't say that I am an Atheist either. I don't believe in the vengeful bible god with insane rules, nor anything that can affect my life, the universe is just too big and awesome. My wife certainly believes that there is something greater than ourselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jblueep Posted May 5, 2012 Share Posted May 5, 2012 Crow, if you will, I'd like to share something with you that I told my stepdad some time ago. He's historically been a fundamentalist, but seems to be going through a variety of transformations as of late. I once told him that new understandings can alter or void previously made contracts and oaths. I was expecting him to resist this assertion, but after a moment's thought he agreed. I think this is likely a relevant thing to bear in mind for those who may be entering the process of deconversion. As you experience more of life and learn and your understanding grows, old oaths and alliances may reasonably be changed. If I'm understanding the gist of what you're saying, no, I don't expect my marriage to change from its current hetero monogamous state. Neither of us have any homosexual or polyamourous leanings, although that is a part of one of the social circles we've started running in. The organization is an amateur female sports team, and given the nature of it, she has a fair number of lesbian teammates. I was writing more about how odd this all felt not to want to feel judgemental in social situtations that are anathema to any right-thinking proper Southern Baptist. I actually expect our deconversion to greatly strengthen our marriage, because now we will be honestly able to pursue what feels real to us spirtually. Although I doubt I will ever be involved in anything approaching organized religon, I can't say that I am an Atheist either. I don't believe in the vengeful bible god with insane rules, nor anything that can affect my life, the universe is just too big and awesome. My wife certainly believes that there is something greater than ourselves. Crow, I'm pretty sure Legion was just stating a practical guilt-free way for you to understand the ongoing change in your belief system. I don't think he was referring to marriage or sexuality. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2Honest Posted May 5, 2012 Share Posted May 5, 2012 Welcome, Crow and Luna81! I'm really glad you found this place. Like jblueep said, our family recently deconverted and things could not be better for us now. It's actually brought us closer as a family. Our kids are more comfortable talking to us about stuff and they even get along better with each other. It's crazy, we were SO worried about raising them as Christians and wanting them to have a "real relationship" with god. Even though we weren't really strict or in-your-face about it, it was driving them away from us. I agree w/J about the cognitive dissonance. That was the most crazy-making part of the process for me, too. I lived in that frustrated/confused state for months. It was horrible. Once I allowed myself to settle on what I really believed to be true (that there is no Bible-god), the clouds parted. It was SO freeing not to have to try to make it all fit and make sense anymore. Here are some resources that might be of help to you: Jerry DeWitt, former preacher from Louisiana who came out just in the past 6 months or so as an unbeliever. evid3nc3: He's got great videos featuring the story of his deconversion and what he learned regarding the truth about the bible, evolution, etc. The Thinking Atheist: All of his videos are great (fyi- the satirical ones might be a little difficult for you to watch right now). He's also got an awesome podcast on iTunes. http://www.youtube.com/user/TheThinkingAtheist/videos Marlene Winell: She's a counselor, speaker, and author of the book "Leaving the Fold". When I read her stuff I felt like she'd been inside my head reading my mind! I think her writing could really be of help to you and your wife right now. She helps you to understand why you feel the way you do and how to fully recover from the damage done by religion. You can read some sample chapters of her book on her site. http://www.marlenewinell.net/ Please stick around and let us know how we can be of help to you! 2H 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legion Posted May 5, 2012 Share Posted May 5, 2012 Crow, if you will, I'd like to share something with you that I told my stepdad some time ago. He's historically been a fundamentalist, but seems to be going through a variety of transformations as of late. I once told him that new understandings can alter or void previously made contracts and oaths. I was expecting him to resist this assertion, but after a moment's thought he agreed. I think this is likely a relevant thing to bear in mind for those who may be entering the process of deconversion. As you experience more of life and learn and your understanding grows, old oaths and alliances may reasonably be changed. If I'm understanding the gist of what you're saying, no, I don't expect my marriage to change from its current hetero monogamous state. Neither of us have any homosexual or polyamourous leanings, although that is a part of one of the social circles we've started running in. The organization is an amateur female sports team, and given the nature of it, she has a fair number of lesbian teammates. I was writing more about how odd this all felt not to want to feel judgemental in social situtations that are anathema to any right-thinking proper Southern Baptist. I actually expect our deconversion to greatly strengthen our marriage, because now we will be honestly able to pursue what feels real to us spirtually. Although I doubt I will ever be involved in anything approaching organized religon, I can't say that I am an Atheist either. I don't believe in the vengeful bible god with insane rules, nor anything that can affect my life, the universe is just too big and awesome. My wife certainly believes that there is something greater than ourselves. Crow, I'm pretty sure Legion was just stating a practical guilt-free way for you to understand the ongoing change in your belief system. I don't think he was referring to marriage or sexuality. Yes, quite right Blue. Thank you for offering that clarification in my absence. Yes Crow, what I mean to say is... I take my oaths fairly seriously. And among the things which kept me unduly bound to Christianity was a feeling that I was betraying an oath to God and my community by learning. But the cosmos is not what I thought it was as a child, and therefore many childhood oaths no longer apply. I no longer feel guilt for outgrowing old clothes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akheia Posted May 5, 2012 Share Posted May 5, 2012 Welcome, Crow, and welcome to Luna as well when she gets here I don't even know what to say except that I'm so glad you're breaking free of the bondage of control, guilt, and fear to find a new way of existing. A big problem for me too was learning that morality exists entirely separate from religion--which we can see by just reading the Bible itself and seeing how immoral the Judeo-Christian god really is! Anybody who advocates slavery and genocide, kills almost everybody on earth because they're not kowtowing to him, and designs a cosmology around blood sacrifice is the enemy of humankind, not its loving parent. Ick! Also, it's mega-shitty to blame a kid for someone's heart attack. That's emotional blackmail and manipulation of the lowest order. Unless you stood over the old fella with a Tens unit and shocked him till he had the attack, you are 100% not responsible for it. You know that, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exevolt Posted May 6, 2012 Share Posted May 6, 2012 My mind tells me that the Bible and God and church are not true. Indoctrination since birth tells me otherwise. This is extremely painful. Welcome and I know your pain dude. Give it time and reverse personal indoctirnation (if their is such a thing) and you should feel good. it's what I did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spherr Posted May 6, 2012 Share Posted May 6, 2012 My mind tells me that the Bible and God and church are not true. Indoctrination since birth tells me otherwise. This is extremely painful. We are dirty smokers that had a child out of wedlock. Oldest son is actually my stepson, we got married about six months after the youngest boy was born. Gasp, I married an older, divorced woman. That has always been an issue with my mother. I understand the confusion you are having. It does get better. Welcome to the community! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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