Why 'coming Out', To Me, Has Two Meanings

[Suzanne]

Hello everyone, my name is Suzanne. I’m a 20 year old university student from Western Europe. I’m looking forward to meeting you guys! I will first try and tell you my story, so that you all know where I’m coming from and what my reasons for leaving Christianity are. I am just starting to look around more after a period of completely sticking my head in the sand, pretending religion did not exist. I just couldn’t deal with the pain and anger that it had made me feel before. I apologize in advance for this being a long story. Here it is.

 

When I was a little kid, I always attended church with my parents. I didn’t question anything because that is what children do: believe everything they are told. I don’t remember too much of that time. My childhood was a good one; my parents loved me, and while I wasn’t popular in school and this sometimes made me sad, I was an optimistic and bright child who loved reading books. When I was about 8 or 9 years old, my mother became a born-again Christian, and she has since been pretty fundamentalist in her beliefs. The nature of evangelical Christianity is a very open and inviting one, or so it seemed to me at least. At church, we sang songs and I saw around me how much everyone loved Jesus and God and how good that was making their lives. I wanted that too. I felt Gods presence inside of me. At a large Christian event, when the leaders asked everyone who wanted to invite Jesus into their hearts to come to the stage, I went there. I still remember the feeling of something mystical, something larger than myself that surely was God.

 

For a few years, I was a very devoted Christian. During this time, I was taught all kinds of dogmas. Evolution was a lie; God had created the Earth just 6,000 years ago, there was plenty of evidence for it. (I am still struggling with this idea today and am planning to read a lot more on the topic.) I remember trying to convince my classmates in high school that evolution was just another belief and that it was ‘just a theory’ anyway. (This is evidence of how little scientific background I actually had for these claims; had I known the slightest bit about science, then I would surely have known that a theory is not necessarily something that has not been proven.) Sex before marriage was something I was definitely never going to do. That was not what God wanted. Homosexuality was a sin, and although we should not hate the sinners, only their sins, it was clear to me that being gay and being a Christian could not go together. In high school, one of my classmates was openly gay and he went to church. I wondered why on earth he did that; wasn’t it clear to him that people like him weren’t wanted there? Looking back, I still feel ashamed of those thoughts.

 

As the years passed, the mystical feelings and all of the really evangelical stuff started to fade a little, but I still enjoyed going to church and singing (I think a large part of the attraction, to me, has always been the singing) and was even an active member of my church’s youth group. My beliefs in the dogmas were strong as ever.

 

But then a life-changing event happened. I had just turned 18 and went off abroad for six months. I had barely set foot out of the train and then it happened... I fell in love. This wouldn’t have been such a big deal, if the person I fell in love with hadn’t been a woman. I felt helpless, shaken, but there was nothing I could do about it.

 

For me, that was where it started.

 

There was such an immense division in my heart. Such desperation. I was a good Christian, this wasn’t supposed to happen. And yet, I slowly had to start accepting that it was true, and that it had happened before as well, just not as fiercely so I had been able to shut it out subconsciously. But there they were now, these feelings of love and admiration and physical attraction. I could not find a single thing that was wrong with those feelings. It did not feel wrong, and yet my beliefs told me it was wrong. It was like two parts of me were continuously clashing.

 

My mind was in a constant state of panic. I felt like this ‘new me’ that I was slowly starting to get to know would not be so easily accepted by others, especially my parents. I felt like I myself could not really accept the ‘new me’ because I thought it would be weak to just change my beliefs to fit what I wanted them to be. God had taught us things and we weren’t the ones to decide which of those to believe and which not. Yet the feeling of being in love was so completely and utterly right. But for various reasons, I never told her.

 

My parents still don’t know that I’m bisexual (as it later turned out, I do like guys as well) and all my friends reacted in a positive way. No one actually told me to my face that it was wrong or sinful what I felt. Nevertheless, I was constantly trying to reconcile what I had always believed in with what was happening now. I can’t say that I really started to question my beliefs at that point – it’s more like I put them on hold. Back in my home country, in a new city, I did register with a new church, but only went once, when before I had been religious (pun totally intended ) about it. I had a lot of things to deal with at that time, not in the least the grief I was dealing with about never seeing the woman I had so desperately fallen in love with again. It took me several months to really get over that. As I said, I put religious beliefs on hold, I think that’s a good way of putting it. I had so much discovering to do, had to come to terms with a lot of aspects of me that I did not previously know were there, that I just couldn’t do it with the constant voice whispering that what I was thinking was a sin. It still did not feel like a sin at all.

 

Prior to putting my belief ‘on hold’ so to speak, however, I had experienced an enormous feeling of rejection. Not by a single person but by my belief system, maybe even by God. This has been a traumatic experience for me. Maybe not in the most extreme sense of the word, as I definitely do not suffer from PTSS or anything like that, but traumatic nonetheless because I feel that this experience cut off ties that were previously there, and they can now never be like that again. It did so in a very painful manner, too.

 

All of this has slowly made me realize, over the past two years, that I cannot return to the church just like that again. And lately, I have been finding that I do not think I want to return, either.

 

So recently, I went and searched the internet. I have been reading, reading, reading ever since. I read all the essays on www.losingmyreligion.com on things that are faulty or inconsistent in the Bible and found them very insightful. What I look for now is a basis, a reason for which to give up on my religion other than this basic feeling of rejection because of the one rule regarding homosexuality. I know there are churches out there that do not have any trouble with homosexuals. While this seems like a nice idea, I really dislike the idea of saying that the Bible is your holy book that you want to follow completely and meanwhile selecting passages that you don’t really have to follow (and actually, every church does this – no church follows all the rules from the Old Testament, apparently it’s only the ones that are convenient).

 

Since I’ve started reading, I have found a whole lot of other reasons why I can’t believe in Christianity anymore. I’m still very much processing that. I plan to tell my parents both things some day, that I’m not a Christian anymore and also that I’m bisexual, as I feel these things are completely intertwined for me. I don’t have any idea how to do that yet, though...

 

For those who are still with me, thank you for reading. (For the rest, I understand if you tl;dr-ed. ) I hope my story will maybe help others in a similar position.

 

Any comments are appreciated, tips on how to move on from here, experiences, anything. I’d love to hear from you.

[Exevolt]

Hello Suzanne, welcome and alot of people here know how you feel, I sure do on the basis of the sexuality and trying to deal with evolution, sexuality and religion, though I was never a hardcore enough believer or raised by hardcore believers enough for it to be to hard to shake the lies of the christian bible. You're amongst like-thinkers.

[♦ ficino ♦]

Hello Suzanne, and welcome! I very much appreciate reading your story; thank you for posting and for sharing your thoughts and questions. Everything in someone's life can be of help to other people going through similar things.

 

If you can find my testimony on here from around six years back (sorry, I don't know how to continue replying to AND link the testimony/extimony), you can see some of the similar experiences and thoughts I had as a gay Christian. The gay issue I kept smoldering within me until I met my first lover, and then I saw that I had to say "yes" to life, so to speak. As time passed the hold of Christianity grew weaker as I saw more and more how unjust its god is. Later still I went back and started to look seriously at the Bible and the doctrines and realized how contradictory, absurd and immoral they are (despite the good elements - but every religion has those).

 

I guess if I boil it down to reasons besides being gay for "why am I not a Christian", I'd say:

1. bible contradictions

2. falsehoods in the bible (historic, scientific, unfulfilled prophecies)

3. overall absurdity of the whole thing

4. immoral acts justified as commanded by God

 

Finally, the gay issue itself was not just for me. I was prepared to see it as my way of carrying the cross (that's what my priest told me), if it had just involved my life. But I couldn't see how God was just if he set up a world where millions would be gay and lesbian and at the same time said that their love was evil and the best they could hope for is celibacy or a dicey attempt at trying heterosexual marriage anyway (usually without really changing). So the gay issue became an argument in my mind that went beyond my life situation to touch on universals.

 

Have to go see my lover so must sign off - come back on here often!

[Suzanne]

Thank you both for your responses and your kind words. I seem to have found a good place here.

 

Ficino, I can't find your testimony, but maybe it's just that I'm new to the site - could you maybe PM me the thread link? I think your thoughts were very similar to mine. If God hates me for a feeling this wonderful, then how can that be a good God? And if he doesn't hate me for it, then what's the bible worth, in which that is specifically stated? I'm actually happy to have discovered my bisexuality so that a) I got to know myself better and I found out relatively early that Christianity is not for me. I sometimes wonder what would've happened, had I been heterosexual. Interesting food for thought.

[bronxo]

Hi there!

 

Just like you, I'm a university student in western Europe. Ever since I've lived on my own I have been slowly deconverting, until I recently stopped believing at all. Being around a lot of christian people didn't help.

 

Anyways, a few good things for me to do were have many conversations with non believers I knew at the time, and I've spent many hours in the chatbox here.

 

Reading books can also be a great way to find new meaning in life. One of the biggest problems I face after deconversion is finding a purpose, everything I used to live for is gone.

 

Have a good time on ex-c!

[♦ ficino ♦]

Hi again, Suzanne. I dug up my testimony and was surprised to find it is from Sept. 15, 2004! I hope this link works:

 

http://new.exchristian.net/2004/09/time-to-say-yes-to-life.html

 

It's rather long, so I apologize and I can totally understand the tl-dr thing. Your and my experiences have a lot of differences, but I think the glbt issues got us both to realize how God as depicted in the bible and in the religion is not not just and not loving.

 

As I went back in the old testimonies on the main part of the board, I noticed how many people's lives have been screwed up by Christianity. I also noticed the Christians who would come on here and attack those who stopped being Christians. They usually said the ex-christians were never true christians, or must have been hurt by christians, or just are evil - i.e. totally lame things to say.

 

When I was a Christian I would come in contact with some Christians who argued that the Bible does not really condemn gays and lesbians but only condemns practices unique to ancient culture - like temple prostitution. Or they would argue that it does not condemn gay or lesbian sex as such but only "lust." I never bought those attempts to whitewash the bible, and I went into the relevant NT texts in the Greek in some detail. However I do agree with people who say that the sin of Sodom was not homosexuality but lack of hospitality, as Ezekiel makes clear.

 

I feel sad that you never told the woman you loved how you felt, but I am glad that you are young and that there are a lot of people you will meet. You sound like a really thoughtful and simpatica person!

[Margee]

Suzanne, Welcome to EX-c!! The place where you can be who you really are!!

I just wanted to encourage you today .

 

You, Suzanne, walk out of that closet into the main room which will take to the a bigger room and a bigger room.... a room so big that you can fit all your wonderful self in!! Close that closet door behind you and don't go back in! You have come too far. Jesus did not speak of homosexuality in the 4 gospels!! He didn't care!

 

Always remember .......if one must refer to the bible, it also says alongside sex sin (in the NT) is wild parties, lust, anger, gossipping, grudges, resentment, etc.......... Those who do these things will not see the kingdom of god!!!Well, that's gonna' be the world world honey!!

Scripure that is preached on in church is 'cheery picked''!! I'd rather hear a good sermon on god telling abraham to cut his son in two!! But no - you won't hear this sermon!!

 

Suzanne, your own gut instinct will help you along. You will know the path you are supposed to go on. Your heart will tell you! Read and read, as much as you can about 'freethinking' and become one!!

 

You're lovely and young....do not waste your precious life worrying about the invisable, punishing god!!

Best of everything along your journey!!

 

Sincerely, Margee

[Guest Babylonian Dream]

Evidence for evolution? Where do I begin, as these days, its quite literally everywhere. It's in the faces of your grandparents not looking identical to yours (small changes over time, equal pretty big ones). Its also in genetics (why some people are immune to somethings, while others seem to just be haunted and clobbered by the same illnesses).

 

As for the age of the earth, I've quite literally seen human-made proto-writing as old and older than they say the earth is.

 

If you still need help in that department, I'd be glad to point you in that direction. There's a wealth of readily accessible knowledge out there.

 

 

Yeah, its hard. For me, coming out had 2 meanings, haven't quite gotten to the 3rd meaning yet, and I'm not so sure I'm going to get that chance, if I even want it at this point.

 

Welcome to Ex-C! You'll find that there are many here that have been there in one way or another. I was from an equally ignorant and unaccepting branch, I was a fundamentalist Baptist.

[Spectrox]

Hi Suzanne. I enjoyed your testimony. Welcome to the site.

 

I see you've already received lots of support so I shan't bore you but when I was a Xian I always thought it odd that God would give someone the gift of sexual attraction and then tell them they are never allowed to use it. I found this very mean!

 

I tried the cherry-picking thing for a while but fairly quickly realised I was just lying to myself about the whole kit and caboodle.

[Overcame Faith]

Hi, Suzanne, welcome to ExC. After having read your testimony, I understand your topic title. Indeed, two important meanings. They both involve learning and then accepting the truth and both of those are not always easy to do. You, however, seem to have come a long way toward the truth. I know your parents are fundamentalist Christians, but they should be very proud of their daughter.

[Suzanne]

It's so good to read all of your responses and encouragement, so thank you again. It really helps to see that other people went through these things as well, as most people I know in real life are either Christians or were never really religious in the first place. I don't know anyone who specifically chose to leave the church this way. Luckily, I do currently have a boyfriend (he never was religious) who is very patient and willing to listen and discuss anything I need to talk about.

 

@ficino, thank you so much for your story. I read it all the way through; you seem to have seen a lot more of Christianity than I have before you left! I'm glad to see you eventually found your way out towards happiness with your lover. Yes, it was a sad period when I left after those six months, but most likely it wouldn't have worked out anyway. There were too many things in the way... And anyway, I'm very happy where I am now with my boyfriend.

 

@Babylonian Dream, I would certainly like to read more on this topic. I've already been reading about creationism specifically and have decided that's complete bogus, but there are several things about evolution that I don't seem to understand yet. I hate to feel ignorant, especially when I hear people preaching the creationist stories and I can't counter them with facts in a discussion. So if you could give me pointers, yes please!

 

@Overcame Faith, your last sentence really touched me. I think they are very proud of me, indeed. They're good, loving people who have always raised me well and I'm thankful for that.

[Guest Babylonian Dream]

@Babylonian Dream, I would certainly like to read more on this topic. I've already been reading about creationism specifically and have decided that's complete bogus, but there are several things about evolution that I don't seem to understand yet. I hate to feel ignorant, especially when I hear people preaching the creationist stories and I can't counter them with facts in a discussion. So if you could give me pointers, yes please!

There are 2 versions of this human genetics and migration documentary, dealing with different chromosomes, the x and the y, and yet, both seem to agree on how different cultures are related to one another. Interestingly enough, the closer they are together genetically, the more similar they look, something I've noticed.

 

As a side note, you also have human ancestry being proven to have originated right where the ape we're supposed to be closely related to is living, the chimpanzee, in Central Africa. Though a little to the east, in the Omo River Valley. Very interesting documentary, also incredible in terms of content:

 

The Y Chromosome one:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLh775nMBHQ

 

You might notice that the documentaries almost completely mirror eachother, but they are different, and study different chromosomes to track our ancestry. Also, there are differences, where the two seem to contradict, not sure why, but it might be different information came up that changed our current view from the time the next documentary was made. Scientists are always making new discoveries, which change our understanding of the world:

 

 

This Youtube User really does do alot with documentaries on evolution in general, hence his name, there is a wealth of stuff on there. I subscribed to his videos a long time ago.

 

http://www.youtube.com/user/EvolutionDocumentary

[Mitzer]

I always thought it odd that God would give someone the gift of sexual attraction and then tell them they are never allowed to use it.

 

Exactly! God is either incredibly cruel or incredibly stupid to devise sexuality with its pleasures as a means of procreation, then condemn it as something bad. What a ditz...!

 

Welcome, Suzanne, you have friends here who welcome and support you!

[Suzanne]

Thanks @Babylon Dream for the videos and your explanation! I will come back here next week and watch them (when I don't have two papers to write). I also found a book called "Why evolution is true" that seems like it's a good starting point, so I'll read that too. Will keep you updated!

[FeelHappy]

I find evolution fascinating hopefully you will also. Anyways, there is no evidence for a young earth, most of the stuff you've heard are distorted facts or lies, creationists are some of the most dishonest people you'll see. Anyways think of this, there are stars millions and billions of light years away so therefore those objects have had to be in the sky for millions of years before the light could reach the earth, so there is no way we have a young universe.

 

I'm going back to work now so I'll have to post more later, perhaps find a good site or two for you. If you're wanting to read a book I remember Kenneth Miller's book Finding Darwin's God (miller is a christian though) was the one which caused me to stop my belief in creationism or intelligent design.