A Look Back...

[Thought2Much]

The following is a post that I made to a forum for an online community that I'm a part of. I originally posted this in August of 2008. I'm repeating it here to give a sense of where I've been on my journey, and how I first started on my way to where I am now. If I've posted this somewhere else on Ex-C before, forgive me.

 

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This may turn out to be one of the hardest things for me to write, so please bear with me. This has also been brewing in my head for quite some time, so this will take a while. You might want to pull up a chair and make yourself comfortable, and maybe make some tea while you're at it.

 

Most of you know that I have no problem writing or saying (sometimes loudly) what I believe when it comes to politics, or design. I have no problem discussing exactly what my thoughts and opinions are about a number of subjects, including bacon, pizza, and other people's bad driving habits. However, I have tremendous difficulty talking about things that are closer to the heart, things that are less about the natural world and more about the spiritual.

 

This is not only true of my online self, but of my offline personality as well. Whenever I am in a group and the topic of spirituality or religious beliefs comes up, anyone paying attention would notice that I instantly get very uncomfortable, and that my participation in the discussion drops off immediately. This isn't because I have no thoughts on spiritual matters — quite the opposite, in fact, is true.

 

Here is a bit of a background of where I've been, and how I've gotten to where I am.

 

(Ex-Cers who have read my story can skip this bit, since it just rehashes what was in my extimonial, and just go to the next bit in blue.)

 

My parents gave me very little in the way of guidance on spiritual matters, since both of them are at best agnostic. The only time that any of us ever stepped into any kind of church was for the occasional wedding or funeral. I had never even heard of Ash Wednesday or Lent until I was well into my teenage years.

 

Then, when I was fourteen, it was through a group of close friends that I became a born-again Christian and was "saved." I started going to a Baptist church every week. I went to Christian concerts and music festivals, bought Christian music albums, read my Bible daily (or pretty close to it), read Christian fiction, the whole bit. I was certain in my faith, and I was certain of my salvation.

 

This continued through my college years in Savannah, Georgia. It took me the better part of my freshman year, but I finally found a good church to plug into that I stayed with through the rest of my college career. This church was part of the Assemblies of God, a fundamentalist denomination of Christianity. During these years, I went as far as participating in street evangelism, and talking to complete strangers about Jesus and my faith. I made some very close friends there, a few of whom I have kept in contact with to this day.

 

After I graduated college, I moved back to New Jersey, to the same town in which I had grown up. I tried going back to the Baptist church where I had started out as a Christian, but in the time that I had been away, I had gotten more "filled with the Spirit," and it seemed that the Baptist church had become less so. It took some time, but I found another Assemblies of God church to settle into. It was here that I met my wife at the church singles group. Well, kinda sorta — there's a story about that, but it doesn't belong here.

 

It turns out that my wife's father had been an Assemblies of God preacher (at a different church from the one where we met) for over 40 years, and still is today. Her brother is also an Assemblies of God preacher. One of her other brothers is the worship leader at her father's church, and her third brother and two nephews are also all on the worship team. A couple of years after we got married, we started going to her father's church.

 

(Below is the relevant bit.)

 

A few years after that is when the uncertainty, misgivings, and to some extent, disgust, began to set in. There wasn't one particular event that has made me question my faith, but rather a series of small things that have piled up over the years.

 

To sum it all up, I'm tired.

 

I'm tired of being told that I should be evangelizing and witnessing to everyone around me. For years, I was told by other Christians that we are hated by the world because we make people feel convicted of the sins that they are committing. What I have actually learned is that the world doesn't like us because we Christians are pushy, self-righteous, smug jerks that no one wants to be around.

 

I'm tired of every conversation being about church, and God, and Jesus. I'm tired of being told that if I'm not interested in Christian music or the preachings of the latest televangelist pastor of some megachurch that there's something wrong with me. I'm tired of being pressured to feel that I should take some of what little vacation time I have to go visit some church in another state that people believe is having a renewal, or revival, or outpouring, or refreshing, or whatever term is in vogue with Christians at the moment.

 

I'm tired of being told outright lies as if they are truth, such as "Jesus didn't actually drink wine, he just served it to the disciples." I'm tired of being told that the world is six thousand years old, and that fossils are just placed in the ground to test our faith, or that dinosaurs were just animals that weren't on Noah's ark (but somehow, the largest animals to ever exist escaped the notice of the authors of the Bible), and any scientist that claims otherwise is just fooled by Satan, or too dependent upon his own wisdom to know "The Truth." I'm tired of being told that I have to take everything in the Bible literally, except for the parts that the pastors tell me not to.

 

I'm tired of being told that if I don't speak in tongues, that somehow I was never filled with the Holy Spirit in the first place. I'm tired of feeling like I can't have a beer or a glass of wine without being judged by my in-laws or other Christians.

 

I'm tired of having to just smile and pretend I'm interested whenever anyone babbles on about their interpretation of when the end times are coming. I'm tired of hearing all of the conspiracy theories about which political figure is the antichrist, when Christ is coming back, and how aliens and UFOs are actually demonic spirits. I'm tired of everybody and their brother thinking that they are biblical scholars just because they know how to use a concordance, and that because of this God has given them some sort of special wisdom. I'm tired of people taking the tiniest snippets of Bible verses out of context, and acting like they have relevance to whatever it is they are doing.

 

I'm tired of the vapid, inane, fluff that Christians call music. I'm tired of worship teams everywhere that have been singing the same weak, bland songs for over twenty years now; these songs weren't even new when I first got saved, and now they're just moldy with age.

 

I'm tired of trying to change the subject whenever anyone asks why my family doesn't give out candy on Halloween, and why my son won't ever go trick-or-treating. I just don't want to explain that we nutty Christian types are supposed to believe that we're raising kids to be little Satanic worshipers by dressing them up as cartoon characters and letting them go around the neighborhood asking for candy. I'm tired of trying to change the subject whenever anyone asks what kind of church I go to, because I just don't want to tell them that I go to one of those "holy roller" kinds of churches where people speak in tongues and are "slain" by the spirit.

 

I'm tired of being told that miracles happen, yet in the twenty years since I've been saved, I have yet to see one. I'm tired of the same old sermons, week after week after week.

 

I'm tired of Christians. I'm tired of Christianity. I'm tired of feeling like I'm part of a strange cult on the fringe of society. I'm tired of trying to convince myself that I still have any kind of faith left.

 

I'm just tired.

 

I'm not sure exactly why I'm posting this. I'm not really looking for advice, since there isn't much I can do to change my situation. If I were to tell my wife how I really feel it would destroy our marriage, which is something I don't want to do; if I were to try to leave our church denomination, I would be accused of destroying the family.

 

And so, I just continue from day to day, trying to avoid any of the deeper discussions in life, and trying to pretend that I'm still a devout believer when our family goes to church every Sunday. But I know I can't pretend forever.

 

I guess I just needed to get some of this stuff off of my chest, and it might help people here understand me a bit better.

 

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So, as you can see, this had been brewing for quite some time. I don't think I realized how far out the door I already was when I first posted this.

[mcdaddy]

What I have actually learned is that the world doesn't like us because we Christians are pushy, self-righteous, smug jerks that no one wants to be around.

 

 

 

DING DING DING DING!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

WE HAVE A WINNNNNAAAAHHH!!!!! lol

 

EDIT: AND the height of arrogance to "know" that everything you believe is actual truth. can you have a bit of humility, please??? those 5 little words..."i could be wrong, but..." go a LONG way.

[Denyoz]

Whenever I am in a group and the topic of spirituality or religious beliefs comes up, anyone paying attention would notice that I instantly get very uncomfortable, and that my participation in the discussion drops off immediately. This isn't because I have no thoughts on spiritual matters — quite the opposite, in fact, is true.

 

I like everything you write T2M, but the part that struck me the most this time is this. Oh how I can relate to it!

[Mitzer]

Whenever I am in a group and the topic of spirituality or religious beliefs comes up, anyone paying attention would notice that I instantly get very uncomfortable, and that my participation in the discussion drops off immediately. This isn't because I have no thoughts on spiritual matters — quite the opposite, in fact, is true.

 

I like everything you write T2M, but the part that struck me the most this time is this. Oh how I can relate to it!

 

When we're indoctrinated some things can kinda hang around in our psyche. I wonder...could it be the Christian/religious indoctrination that the thought of spirituality=existence of God is lurking there? Could that be where discomfort of spirituality comes from for you guys? I'm one who finds it quite sensible that spirituality can (and does) exist without a creator, overseer or superior being.

[Blue elephant]

Hi T2M

 

This was a really interesting post because of the way you still identified yourself as a Christian, but all of your comments and criticisms were fully "Ex-Christian".

 

When do you think you crossed the line from Christian to Ex-Christian in your own mind?

[Denyoz]

Whenever I am in a group and the topic of spirituality or religious beliefs comes up, anyone paying attention would notice that I instantly get very uncomfortable, and that my participation in the discussion drops off immediately. This isn't because I have no thoughts on spiritual matters — quite the opposite, in fact, is true.

I like everything you write T2M, but the part that struck me the most this time is this. Oh how I can relate to it!

When we're indoctrinated some things can kinda hang around in our psyche. I wonder...could it be the Christian/religious indoctrination that the thought of spirituality=existence of God is lurking there? Could that be where discomfort of spirituality comes from for you guys? I'm one who finds it quite sensible that spirituality can (and does) exist without a creator, overseer or superior being.

 

Not exactly Mitzer. I feel more like: a rape victim in a group of people who talk about sex. I don't know about T2M.

[Crow]

 

I'm just tired.

 

I'm not sure exactly why I'm posting this. I'm not really looking for advice, ...

 

No advice here, but I really get feeling tired. Especially running to service, dealing with people at the chuch, meeting their expectations, giving the proper response.

[Positivist]

OMG YES!!!!!

 

T2M, you know I love everything you write, but this is brilliant. This was exactly it for me too! I am saving this in my special file. I'd like my hubby to read it too; he's between moderate Xian and agnostic, and he might just be able to relate...

 

Thank you for sharing this writing with us!

[Thought2Much]

Hi T2M

 

This was a really interesting post because of the way you still identified yourself as a Christian, but all of your comments and criticisms were fully "Ex-Christian".

 

When do you think you crossed the line from Christian to Ex-Christian in your own mind?

 

I couldn't tell you, exactly. There was no one moment where the light went on and I said, "I'm not a Christian anymore."

 

EDIT: Thinking about this some more, I think when I originally wrote my "Tired" post, I believe I was just tired of all of the things that Christianity has become, but I still wanted to be a Christian. This was me just grasping at straws to try to convince myself to hold on to what little faith I had left.

[Akheia]

Once you took away all that crap, though, what was left? A faulty book full of shit about a made-up Jesus who probably never said *anything* his writers said he did. There's nothing to hold onto but hot air.

 

I identified with this entire post so much. Thank you for posting it here. It's heart-rending what Christianity does to people.

[electech98]

T2M, please tell me that you are going to be on this board for a LONG time, because you are such an awesome contributor and you really understand how to get your message across to people in such a relate-able way. Please keep your thoughts coming, and hopefully we can be of some encouragement to you.

 

Dang, I wish I could meet you all in real life!

[Thought2Much]

Thanks to everyone that has said they enjoy my writing. It really means a lot to me.

 

While I have no plans to leave this board anytime soon, I do wonder how much writing I will do in the future now that everything is out in the open with my wife. I doubt that I will write many posts that are as lengthy as some of what I have already written; to some extent, I feel like I've gotten most of what I have to say about deconversion out of my head. If I continue to not go to church, then the only real stories I may have to tell will have to do with family gatherings with the in-laws, I suppose. I do plan to keep responding to posts when I have anything to say, and to encourage anyone else who may be in similar situations and let them know that it doesn't have to end in disaster.

 

This site, and all of you who participate in it, have helped me immensely in my journey. Without your continuous encouragement and empathy, I have no idea how long I may have remained "trapped." Thank you so much, all of you. You have done more to help my peace of mind than decades of Christianity could, and for that I will always be grateful.

[mcdaddy]

Plenty left to talk about, dude! You a historical jesuser or a myther? lol

[Thought2Much]

Plenty left to talk about, dude! You a historical jesuser or a myther? lol

 

Snort!

 

Eh. I don't know. There are plenty of good points on both sides of that debate (although I think it's pretty safe to say that all of the miracles and the whole virgin birth thing were myth).

[jdog]

I loved the "tired" rant. You really did cover it all and said it so well.

You really have come a long way since then. And you notice what you said about your wife? and look where you are now. You got past the 'coming out' and It didn't destroy your marriage.

 

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I'm not sure exactly why I'm posting this. I'm not really looking for advice, since there isn't much I can do to change my situation. If I were to tell my wife how I really feel it would destroy our marriage, which is something I don't want to do; if I were to try to leave our church denomination, I would be accused of destroying the family.

 

And so, I just continue from day to day, trying to avoid any of the deeper discussions in life, and trying to pretend that I'm still a devout believer when our family goes to church every Sunday. But I know I can't pretend forever.

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.

 

No and you didn't pretend forever. And I am happy for you that you don't have to hide. Your story is inspiring and I know it can help others who come here.