Timclev Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 Hello all. I think I posted in here once before, but alas, life got in the way as it often does and I completely forgot I had an account here. To make a complicated and very long story as short as possible, I grew up in a home with a Pentecostal and Baptist background. My father was a pastor and everyone had expectations for me, as well. My childhood was carefree with the exception of my dad using the bible as punishment. I had to memorize passages upon passages, and if I didn't get them correct, more were added. I had many problems with sunday school as I had and extremely inquisitive mind, so I had questions the teachers and pastors couldn't adequately answer. In other words, I made them uncomfortable. During my teens I experimented with drugs and various different religions and cults, none of which satisfied me, either. This caused a spiral into a deep depression and a therapy institute which happened to be a Christian-based institution funded by a local collection of Baptist churches. During the process I rededicated my life to Christianity and decided I was going to attend seminary. So, I began by enrolling at Bryan College; named after the famous William Jennings Bryan and the Scopes Trial of Dayton, TN. The first several months were wonderful, as I suspect might be for many students attending a Christian college. No matter what you might believe, being a student at a Christian-based university / college can create a sort of protective and euphoric pocket that you wouldn't normally have in the "outside" world, since you're surrounded by emotional and like-minded peers. Moving on, during my 4th semester I started a class named "Biblical World View", which required many hours of reading from authors such as Dawkins and many other early to modern agnostic / atheist / freethought authors. This class was a beginning in a series in order to strengthen one's faith and defend against other "religions" and non-theist views. In fact, it had quite the opposite effect. It brought forward doubts I've always had and created new ones, leaving me in months of deliberation, prayer, sorrow and a slew of other emotions. I did what I could during the next few years, thinking I was perhaps weak in my faith. I spent much time apart from my classes with friends, my fiancé and a professor / best friend in prayer, conversations and reassurance that my doubts were the work of Lucifer to plant seeds of rebellion against God; but try as I might, agnosticism set it. Nevertheless, I marched on. I graduated with a degree in liberal arts and advanced religion studies, taking time before seminary to practice my preaching tongue and work off some of my school loans. However, I also continued to read books and papers from non-theist authors, and it was during this time I became an atheist, causing my fiancé and best friend to betray me before the entire staff at Bryan. Suffice it to say, I did not continue to seminary. The betrayal left me feeling defeated, and I began binge drinking. I personally knew no other non-theist or anyone else I could confide in, since my family was still in the dark, which is where I kept them. I was afraid the repercussions might be similar or worse than what I had already experienced, and living in the deep south at the time, it was not a risk I was willing to take. I actually feared for my life and well-being. So I lived a lie. Some years passed, I became involved in an awful relationship that resulted in 2 children, however after a few years, I quickly ended the marriage. She quickly became immensely abusive, which even though I could handle her, I could not keep all of her psychologically damaged behavior from my sons 24/7. More time passed, and I began noticing other non-theists coming out of the closet in areas near me as well as the new relationship I became involved in. I now decided it was time to tell my family. It was a complete disaster, and in some ways continues to be so today. They have all (minus my mother) but disowned me and always skirt around me, acting as if I’m not human. Ah, but even though I have been publicly shamed, disowned or betrayed by family and a great deal of friends, there is a very positive note to this. I view my world and universe in such a different and more fascinating way than I did before. Though my professional education has progressed little, due to finances and disasters, knowledge I have gained on my own shows a universe to me that is forever changing and opening to new possibilities, wonders and simply pure awe. That life could evolve and the physics our universe(s?) are so mathematical without an intelligent being to guide it / us makes it that much more precious and fascinating. I also have new and a few old friends that support me through step in my life, without any judgment or alternative motives for being my friends. This is not the end. Yes, I mourn the losses of certain friends and feel such saddening pity for the family members that cannot regard me without thinking of my eternity in Hell. But, I cannot force people to think a certain way, since after all, I came to my own conclusions by my own study; thanks be to the freethinking authors with their courage and hard work. Heh, I just realized that even after all these years, the speaker / pastor is still in me. ;-) 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JadedAtheist Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 Congrats on breaking free, I'm a former seminarian myself and we got a few preachers and pastors here so you're not the only one. Sorry that you've been through so much heartache though, I can't imagine all that you have gone through but can totally sympathize with the lost friends. I was excommunicated from my church and shunned so I totally get that. Best of luck, and enjoy your time on the forums here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
♦ ficino ♦ Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 Hello Timclev, welcome here. You have had a hard row to hoe. I am saddened by the losses you have suffered, especially that Christianity caused many of them, but I am glad that you have maintained your integrity and found a way not based on a lie. Do you have custody of your children? It's great that some of your friends have stuck by you and that you have made new ones. I'm confused about your home. It sounds as though you were in the American South, but you list Norway as your location. Are you an American Southerner or a native Norwegian or...? Anyway, glad to see you on here. I had one year of seminary at a Calvinist place and later after becoming Catholic came close to entering a religious order, so I too can understand the Christian higher-ed experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcdaddy Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 What's worse in the South (Arkansas here): to be a gay Christian, or atheist straight? Yep, religion sucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timclev Posted May 13, 2012 Author Share Posted May 13, 2012 Thanks everyone. To clarify, I grew up outside Chicago and spent about 12 years in west / east TN. I've met a Norwegian and have been here since 2000. Have any among you heard of The Clergy Project? I've spoken with Jerry DeWitt and have contemplated starting a closed and hidden group on FB, however I know so few ex-pastors or priests. Granted, I never held the official title of pastor, but I don't think that would matter much, do you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asanerman Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 This is not the end. Yes, I mourn the losses of certain friends and feel such saddening pity for the family members that cannot regard me without thinking of my eternity in Hell. But, I cannot force people to think a certain way, since after all, I came to my own conclusions by my own study; thanks be to the freethinking authors with their courage and hard work. Heh, I just realized that even after all these years, the speaker / pastor is still in me. ;-) Greetings, Timclev, from an old has been! What a trip! Your resiliency is an astounding tribute to the human spirit. Your gratitude is humbling. Your journey encourages my confidence in Ken Wilber's notion that "evolution in all forms has started to become conscious of itself...as Eros connects the previously unconnected, and pulls together the fragments of a world too weary to endue." Your are right Timclev, this is not the end. It is beginnings without end! Many thanks for your post and welcome! saner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marmot Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 Have any among you heard of The Clergy Project? I've spoken with Jerry DeWitt and have contemplated starting a closed and hidden group on FB, however I know so few ex-pastors or priests. Granted, I never held the official title of pastor, but I don't think that would matter much, do you? I don't think they will. You have to be a practicing or former pastor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2Honest Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 Thanks everyone. To clarify, I grew up outside Chicago and spent about 12 years in west / east TN. I've met a Norwegian and have been here since 2000. Have any among you heard of The Clergy Project? I've spoken with Jerry DeWitt and have contemplated starting a closed and hidden group on FB, however I know so few ex-pastors or priests. Granted, I never held the official title of pastor, but I don't think that would matter much, do you? Funny, I was going to suggest The Clergy Project to you. I saw some similarities between your story and Jerry DeWitt's. I don't think it matters that you weren't "actually" a pastor. My husband and I didn't go to seminary or hold official positions, but we were in church leadership for many years. We've considered starting a "Recovery from Religion" group. I think there are certain things you go through as leaders that are different than just the average church-goer. One thing that is difficult for those of us who were leaders is that we got into those positions b/c we sincerely wanted to help people. Even though we've left Christianity it is still our desire to be there for people and help them. You said "after all these years, the speaker/pastor is still in me" and that is true in a sense. So I think it would be great for you to find an outlet to use those talents and desires you have to do some good in the world. Your unique experience could be a huge help to people who are coming out of Christianity. Are you also considering starting a local Recovering from Religion group? Anyway, I'm glad you found your way back to the forum. Good luck with your recovery process and with your new opportunities. I hope you can stick around, this is a great place! 2H Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Positivist Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 Welcome to Ex-C! What a journey. My heart breaks for everyone who has been caught in the claws of Christianity. Welcome out of the fold! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timclev Posted May 14, 2012 Author Share Posted May 14, 2012 Again, thanks for the replies and warm welcomes. Saner and marot: I know Clergy Project won't use me, as Jerry DeWitt has kindly told me as much via telephone and with good reason. It wasn't anything personal, but for the "backbone" that is being built, they need to at least have the appearance of having as many long-term experienced clergy as possible while addressing the public. The private forum remains private. Jerry and Teresa McBain have suggested that I could start a local RR in Norway, however there just isn't that strong of a need for it here. Statistically, Norwegians are non-theists, despite the fact there isn't a separation of church and state; this is something that is just fading away because of the populations general lack of belief systems. Perhaps I am wrong, since I know there exist small pockets and a Jehovah's Witness here and there, but the Humanist have strong public support. It's a start. I myself have been out awhile (10 years now) and have a psychologist supportive enough to tackle the specifics I deal with concerning the trails and pain religion has left behind, including the general treatment I receive from family members. No, what I had in mind was a FB group, however thus far I've been unable to find but one or two that are willing. This certainly wouldn't attempt to take away the importance of ex-christian.net. I wouldn't dream of doing such a thing. I simply want to create or have a forum that specifically aimed towards the general clergy; or such as you and I, 2honest. People that held the pulpit or held strong positions within the church, missionaries, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2Honest Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 I myself have been out awhile (10 years now) and have a psychologist supportive enough to tackle the specifics I deal with concerning the trails and pain religion has left behind, including the general treatment I receive from family members. No, what I had in mind was a FB group, however thus far I've been unable to find but one or two that are willing. This certainly wouldn't attempt to take away the importance of ex-christian.net. I wouldn't dream of doing such a thing. I simply want to create or have a forum that specifically aimed towards the general clergy; or such as you and I, 2honest. People that held the pulpit or held strong positions within the church, missionaries, etc. Yeah, I do think that's a good idea. Let us know if you start one up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator TrueFreedom Posted May 14, 2012 Moderator Share Posted May 14, 2012 Welcome, Timclev! It looks like you've found a haven in Norway! Congrats on escaping religious tyranny! I would join a private FB group for ex-c pastors and leaders, if you would have a former worship, youth, and children's leader. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timclev Posted May 14, 2012 Author Share Posted May 14, 2012 Well, I actually didn't expect such quick and willing responses! Great! Ok, well, I will be out of commission for some days (minor surgery), but I already have the group up; it's just waiting and doing nothing. In the time being, here is the link: https://www.facebook.com/groups/xclergy/ 2honest, you're not by chance a Sheldon fan, hmm? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timclev Posted May 14, 2012 Author Share Posted May 14, 2012 That was new. Won't do that again - that's certainly never happened before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2Honest Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 Well, I actually didn't expect such quick and willing responses! Great! Ok, well, I will be out of commission for some days (minor surgery), but I already have the group up; it's just waiting and doing nothing. In the time being, here is the link: https://www.facebook...groups/xclergy/ 2honest, you're not by chance a Sheldon fan, hmm? Hey, look the pic showed up! Yep, definitely a Sheldon fan. Edit: Ok it only showed up when I was writing the post but won't actually publish it. Weird! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timclev Posted May 16, 2012 Author Share Posted May 16, 2012 Sorry, everyone for the group confusion. If you have a Facebook acct., as I'm assuming most among you do, adding me to your friends list is the nature of gaining access to the "secrecy" of the group. Non-members cannot view whom the members might be, content or even that the group exists from doing searches. So, if you wish to join, which I hope some do, add me: https://www.facebook.com/tim.clev3r Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akheia Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 2honest, you're not by chance a Sheldon fan, hmm? Oh, that was totally neat how the pic showed up when I hit "quote." What an absolutely incredible journey. I think it must have taken a lot of courage to move yourself forward like that even through the reactions of your family. I was reading your description of Bryan College and thinking how similar it sounded to the little Bible college in my hometown of Houston, some UPC thing whose name escapes me ("Texas Bible College"? But the site shows it's not in Houston now.. Hmm.. http://www.texasbiblecollege.com/page.php?p=academics PS Oh sweet fancy jeezus, that poor girl on the header image...). The one I associated with had such a bubble of groupthink around it that it was hard to imagine any real knowledge coming out of there alive. I didn't go, but I saw more than enough from the folks who did. Ick! Glad you're out of that environment and somewhere that's a little more rational and humanistic. I can see Jerry's viewpoint on the Clergy Project, but still, it seems like there must be somewhere, somehow, for you to use that incredible gift you have with communication. I hope you find it. Many many kind welcomes to the site! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FeelHappy Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 I had a similar story to yours, grew up Word of Faith, got hooked on drugs, got sober, became a devout chrisitan again, was reading up before going to seminary, accidentally got into some historical/critical scholarship and it was during that time I lost my faith. I feel lucky that I stopped believing right before I took that next big step. Anyways welcome to this site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timclev Posted May 16, 2012 Author Share Posted May 16, 2012 Akheia: I appreciate the sentiment, though I don't think it was as much courage as it was exhaustion. I was exhausted for putting on the show, and apparently my mind gave out. To add to the "knowledge" you spoke of, Bryan has taken the last straw of mis-education: http://www.bryan.edu/core and http://www.bryancore.org/ shows the level of fraud they're willing to push forth into every willing young mind. It sickens me and actually fills me with guilt knowing I had a part in it at one time. FeelHappy, I know exactly what you mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serendipity Rose Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 I hope more Christian schools attempt to strengthen their students "faith" by requiring the reading of Dawkins and others books! I didn't look at your facebook group but I did want to share this option with you that was also an offshoot of the clergy project. I hope to start one of these here where i live sometime in the next year or so. http://www.recoveringfromreligion.org/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wester Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 Your fiance and best friend betrayed you? This makes me cringe at the pervasive superficiality and conditionality of christian so-called relationships and friendships. Every christian my mum brought home was a social basket case. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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