Metroplex Posted November 20, 2005 Share Posted November 20, 2005 It always striked me as odd that, since the Israelites saw God descend from heaven on the mountain and heard his sonic boom voice (thunder) they still turn around later on and worshipped a golden calf! I mean, IF I had seen God with my own eyes, there is NO WAY I am going to turn around and worship a man-made animal! Were the israelites NUTS!!! Silly buggers... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted November 20, 2005 Share Posted November 20, 2005 I agree. And the same goes for the "miracles" in the NT too. When Jesus supposedly died, dead people came out of the graves and walked through Jerusalem and preached the gospel. How come that didn't stir up every single Jew to become a believer? It would scare me enough to start believing if I saw zombies walking around and telling things. Or walking on water, healing sick, and so on. I doubt that people were more skeptical to miracles and supernatural back then than today. If we see such things today, we get impressed and start believing very easily, but the Bible describes people seing extreme super-miracles and still would be doubting! That's very fishy indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taphophilia Posted November 20, 2005 Share Posted November 20, 2005 I agree. And the same goes for the "miracles" in the NT too. When Jesus supposedly died, dead people came out of the graves and walked through Jerusalem and preached the gospel. How come that didn't stir up every single Jew to become a believer? It would scare me enough to start believing if I saw zombies walking around and telling things. Or walking on water, healing sick, and so on. I doubt that people were more skeptical to miracles and supernatural back then than today. If we see such things today, we get impressed and start believing very easily, but the Bible describes people seing extreme super-miracles and still would be doubting! That's very fishy indeed. The Ancients invented miracles to give meaning to their histories. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted November 20, 2005 Share Posted November 20, 2005 The Ancients invented miracles to give meaning to their histories. Of course I know that, silly! It was a rhetorical question, but you probably knew that. Thanks for the link. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taphophilia Posted November 20, 2005 Share Posted November 20, 2005 The Ancients invented miracles to give meaning to their histories. Of course I know that, silly! It was a rhetorical question, but you probably knew that. Thanks for the link. I'm not good with rhetorical questions! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regencybrougham Posted November 20, 2005 Share Posted November 20, 2005 It always striked me as odd that, since the Israelites saw God descend from heaven on the mountain and heard his sonic boom voice (thunder) they still turn around later on and worshipped a golden calf! I mean, IF I had seen God with my own eyes, there is NO WAY I am going to turn around and worship a man-made animal! Were the israelites NUTS!!! Silly buggers... He probably hardened their hearts so that he could fuck with them more... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythra Posted December 7, 2005 Share Posted December 7, 2005 Yeah, let's see now. Jesus raises Lazarus from the dead, everybody knows about it. But, what the Pharisees try to do is to kill Lazarus again, to destroy the evidence, rather than believe in Jesus. Now there's a credible part of the gospel story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asdf99 Posted December 7, 2005 Share Posted December 7, 2005 Yeah its not really fair if you think about it. The first hand experiences and miracles people got to witness in the bible is what I need to believe. I have prayed for this countless times and obviously never received it. Doesn’t the bible says ask and you shall receive and it will be given to you. I don’t think God coming down and sitting with me in my living room for 1 minute is to much to ask do you. I wanted desperately to believe the bible was true because that’s how I was raised. This is just one of the many reasons I stepped away from the faith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MQTA Posted December 8, 2005 Share Posted December 8, 2005 if he cured A person of blindness, WHY didn't he just CURE Blindness, Period? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythra Posted December 8, 2005 Share Posted December 8, 2005 Yeah its not really fair if you think about it. The first hand experiences and miracles people got to witness in the bible is what I need to believe. I have prayed for this countless times and obviously never received it. Doesn’t the bible says ask and you shall receive and it will be given to you. I don’t think God coming down and sitting with me in my living room for 1 minute is to much to ask do you. I wanted desperately to believe the bible was true because that’s how I was raised. This is just one of the many reasons I stepped away from the faith. Don't you know that a "wicked generation asks for a sign" ? Another way of God telling you to fuck off. "Jesus" "said" this right after he got done performing a bunch of miracles. To me, the only truly miraculous thing about any of it is that I bought off on it for as long as I did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asdf99 Posted December 8, 2005 Share Posted December 8, 2005 yeah I've thought about that. Like Pharoah and how his heart was harndened because he didn't believe. I say give me some miracles to see and then I'll determine if its really god or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duderonomy Posted December 9, 2005 Share Posted December 9, 2005 Man, are YOU guys in trouble now!! Oh, and don't forget Doubting Thomas. Three years at least walking and seeing and being sent, and Tom still didn't get it! If God is no respector of persons, than can I stick my hand in Jesus' holes to see if He's really not dead? It was OK for Thomas to not believe it until he saw it. How are we so 'blessed' for believing it without seeing it? Shouldn't those of us who doubt be given at least the same chance? Hell, I'll fry up some Catfish right now if God will swing by and have it for breakfast with me! I'd bring up the fact that I was naked on my boat once and dove overboard and God told me where to cast my net, but that's another story that goes back to Genesis, and the seed bearing herbs, and all that. And I don't even own a boat!! Y'all realize, I hope, that I can give Chapter and Verse for the above, if needed... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwc Posted December 9, 2005 Share Posted December 9, 2005 It wasn't just Thomas. Read the gospels. How many times did jesus admonish the disciples for not believing? I don't know personally but quite a few. They still were in shock the day he "rose" from the dead. They didn't believe anything jesus said even though they performed miracles in jesus' name. I guess when you're walking around with a guy that doesn't exist it's hard to keep reminding yourself that he's really real. mwc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACKGRAVITY Posted December 9, 2005 Share Posted December 9, 2005 if he cured A person of blindness, WHY didn't he just CURE Blindness, Period? design flaw i guess.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eccles1:2 Posted December 9, 2005 Share Posted December 9, 2005 The Ancients invented miracles to give meaning to their histories. Of course I know that, silly! It was a rhetorical question, but you probably knew that. Thanks for the link. I'm not good with rhetorical questions! Where would we be without rhetorical questions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duderonomy Posted December 10, 2005 Share Posted December 10, 2005 mwc, Good point. There are so many stories of the very 'twelve' not believing, even though they were there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted December 10, 2005 Share Posted December 10, 2005 The part with the doubting disciples always bothered me, even as a Christian. How could they not believe, seeing what they saw? And considering that it was 2000 years ago, when people were more guillable than now. Just look at how people start crying and praying to God, because a stain in a building wall looks like a head of Mary. People are so easily duped and conned in our time, so how can 12 people 2000 years ago be described to be so skeptical and cynical and not believe when someone walked on water, made food from nowhere, healing thousands of sick people. There's no chance that we have become less skeptical in our world, but we have become more skeptical, so those stories are false just by the way the disciples supposedly reacted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All Gods Fail Posted December 10, 2005 Share Posted December 10, 2005 I guess when you're walking around with a guy that doesn't exist it's hard to keep reminding yourself that he's really real. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joyous1 Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 It always striked me as odd that, since the Israelites saw God descend from heaven on the mountain and heard his sonic boom voice (thunder) they still turn around later on and worshipped a golden calf! I mean, IF I had seen God with my own eyes, there is NO WAY I am going to turn around and worship a man-made animal! Were the israelites NUTS!!! Silly buggers... Do you believe that Sylvia Browne is psychic? She is right sometimes, after all. Why stop believing just because 99% of her predictions are wrong? I've seen some pretty miraculous things happen over my lifetime as a Christian. But their occurence is so random and unreliable that I can only conclude that the "miracles" I witnessed were a combination of serendipity and gullibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MQTA Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 Man, are YOU guys in trouble now!! Oh, and don't forget Doubting Thomas. Three years at least walking and seeing and being sent, and Tom still didn't get it! If God is no respector of persons, than can I stick my hand in Jesus' holes to see if He's really not dead? How come they weren't all puking up their guts? Could you imagine seeing someone walking around with obviously NO BLOOD, holes in each hand and a big piercing gash in his side? I can't even think about that kind of vision. And what about his head with all those thorns digging at him. It was OK for Thomas to not believe it until he saw it. How are we so 'blessed' for believing it without seeing it? I think "John" has it be Thomas because "John" was probably written with emphasis to denounce the Gospel of "Thomas". Shouldn't those of us who doubt be given at least the same chance? Hell, I'll fry up some Catfish right now if God will swing by and have it for breakfast with me! I always thought it was strange when they spelled it Holy Jesus. I ALWAYS heard HOLEy Jesus. Surely not Wholey Jesus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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