Helping The Emotional Side Break Free Of This Religion

[struggling]

Hi everyone,

I seem to be doing well with my deconversion from an intellectual perspective. When I read books, websites, etc. it helps me look at things from a different perspective and break away from the dogma.

 

However, the emotional side of me is not yet convinced. It's as if the logic and rationality simply can't reach that part, because it is the part that has shut out (or been shut out from) logic and reason when I was a "true believer." That side of me still *feels* like faith is for good people and doubt is for bad people. When this happens to me I'm not capable of the process of thinking because I'm overwhelmed with feeling.

 

It feels like the emotional/believer part of me is so deeply indoctrinated that even any small consideration that things aren't exactly as I believe them to be would be very threatening to me. Of course, it wouldn't actually be threatening; the only thing that would be threatened is the belief itself and this is the very thing I want to rid myself of. But it has lodged itself in my mind with quite a dose of self-preservation.

 

The other trouble is that this feeling seems to be what my mind reverts to automatically, without my control or permission. This is very upsetting to me.

 

I really want to let go of this belief system as it is holding me back in most aspects of my life. I've moved on already, but I keep unwillingly pulling myself back with this splinter that I can't extract.

 

Every time I see or hear anything to do with Xtianity or a related concept or word, my mind switches into true believer status. I keep trying to think my way out of it by reading things but if I can't change this core belief, I will keep coming back again and again.

 

Can someone with a little more perspective please give me some insight into how to work on this issue? I'm not opposed to hard work, it's just that everything I've tried isn't working.

[SusanStoHeli]

Who is better? Someone who does a good deed (caring for a sick child) with the promise of a reward (you'll be paid $3000.00 an hour!), and the threat of punishment (if you don't, you'll be reported to the board and lose your license to practice) - or someone who does a good deed just because they believe it's the right thing to do?

 

Atheists/agnostics, on average, are less likely to divorce, to be in prison, atheist countries have high standards of living and a great deal of social consciousness in their gov't (free healthcare for all, social programs, jails that focus on reform rather then punishment, etc.). We tend to be good people - and without the promise of heaven for it, nor the threat of hell if we fail. It's not about the reward.

 

My favorite tagline is "Atheists are good, for nothing. And proud of it!" - it's something I think is worth mentioning. It's something to be proud of. I tend to believe, being a bit of an optimist, that religious people are also like that, that they wouldn't go hurting people if they didn't believe there was a god that would punish them - but they don't seem to believe it. They say without god watching your every move, ready to punish and reward right and wrong thoughts and actions, people are horrible. That says a huge amount about them, nothing about us - they think you're only good for a reward.

[mcdaddy]

Don't worry about that too much- it happens to all of us to some degree. Part of the process. It's okay to feel that pull back- this isn't something you can get rid of quickly. Half your brain is emotional, half is logical. If you've vastly overused one side, it's like a muscle that has gotten very strong. It takes time to atrophy.

 

Whenever I feel like you do, I just think about the complete injustice of the hell doctrine, and then let all the other info ive learned swirl about for a few minutes, and I remember why it's insane to take all of it literally. I've been basically out for about 6-12 months and it doesn't really bother me anymore, only dealing with family sometimes is annoying.

[Positivist]

For me it was a process. To me it sounds like you are still deconverting. I think the mind and the 'heart' deconvert at different times and via different processes.

I didn't have emotional pangs but I do have mental pangs. I think my emotions were "cured" first, and then I had to sort out my conceptual framework for the world. Just trying to bend my brain to believe all the crap I used to believe actually hurts my brain. Christianity broke my brain!

Be patient and make a decision about what you're going to believe. Then, dial up the self talk.

[Guest wester]

Emotions are mental constructs. Rational, logical thoughts are also mental constructs.

Either can be used to interpret the external world.

 

Maybe you have been used to using emotion as an interpretive tool. Maybe this worked well for you for so long that you are resistant to not relying on it.

 

Look over the list of cognitive biases. Also make sure you understand logical fallacies. With these you can develop an ability to understand the aspects of your emotions that are irrational and then evaluate these emotions in ways that have beneficial outcomes for you rather than letting them sink the ship. Another thing to look at is behavioral economics too see how frequently and easily humans let their biases and emotions run wild on a daily basis.

 

"what my mind reverts to automatically"

This might be something like the unconscious. (The same sorts of processes that digest your food and grow your fingernails.) Or the unconscious reaching out to touch your frontal cortex. Part of having a frontal cortex is the ability to be a rational and/or conscious being. So you can let this process play itself out or deal with it however you choose to when it appears.

 

"Good and bad" are qualitative judgements (your interpretation) and not fixed qualities of external events. The external world has levels of existence that are separate from your ideas of good or bad and you should at least be aware of these possibilities when you decide to give something a thumbs up or thumbs down.

 

I might recommend Kierkegaard's books, and his thesis of the "leap of faith", where he posits that Christianity is illogical, but he says he's going to go ahead and believe it anyway.

 

OK - I hope this helps. Cheers.

[mcdaddy]

I might recommend Kierkegaard's books, and his thesis of the "leap of faith", where he posits that Christianity is illogical, but he says he's going to go ahead and believe it anyway.

 

 

WTF?? Why does he continue to believe!? Warm fuzzies, fire insurance and social peace?

[florduh]

It's brainwashing. Overcoming that takes time, and sometimes professional help. You'll get there, hang in.

[VacuumFlux]

The other trouble is that this feeling seems to be what my mind reverts to automatically, without my control or permission. This is very upsetting to me.

 

I really want to let go of this belief system as it is holding me back in most aspects of my life. I've moved on already, but I keep unwillingly pulling myself back with this splinter that I can't extract.

...

Can someone with a little more perspective please give me some insight into how to work on this issue? I'm not opposed to hard work, it's just that everything I've tried isn't working.

 

Long term habits are hard to break. Think of it like smoking; there's a huge difference between the instantaneous decision to quit and the (for many people) long and difficult process of actually quitting. It's going to take time. Don't be too hard on yourself about that.

 

Since it sounds like the emotions are bothering you enough that you want to speed up the process, maybe try to think through the emotional side of the intellectual things that you know? Like if you're afraid of god being mad at you, stop and think about how unjust that is... and then let yourself feel angry. Emotions often have good reasons behind them, even if our emotional responses are out of proportion; christianity seems to mess that up by trying to tell you what to feel. So when those emotions you don't like come up, ask yourself what they're really saying. Ask yourself what purpose that emotion was supposed to serve and think about how it's malfunctioning. Like guilt... it's good in small doses when it pushes you to make restitution after you've done something wrong. So if you're feeling guilty, ask yourself who you think you've hurt and what you can do to make up for your mistake. If you find out that there's some real human relationship that could use some mending, that's great! Patch things up and move on. If you find out that you're feeling like you ought to patch up a relationship with an entity (like god) that doesn't exist, then there's nothing there to patch and you tell the guilt that you don't need it any more. If you find out you feel guilty because other people have told you you're supposed to feel that way over something that isn't your fault and you have no responsibility to fix it, then be mad at the people who lied to you. That sort of asking myself what functions my emotions serve helps me to get some use out of them instead of fighting them all the time.

[Margee]

struggling, I posted this back in November and some of the the members really liked it. I know it helped me.!

It may help you in this very normal process of deconverting from religion. It takes some time..... I can totally relate to you.

 

'De-programming your own mind'.......Hope it helps a little.......

 

http://www.ex-christ...__fromsearch__1

[TrailBlazer]

It can feel at times like your beliefs have been uprooted, chewed up, spit out, and backed over several times, but it does get better. You might even have to mourn your religion the same way you would morn a lost friendship.

 

What about Christianity is emotionally beneficial to you and how might you include those good concepts into a new belief system? Or do you want to hold onto xianity and live with your intellectual doubts?

 

Beliefs are personal. Christianity, like many religions, has some fundamentally good ideas at its core; throw out the bad, keep the good, and keep on searching pal.

[Eugene39]

Hi, Struggling. I agree with what others have said - it takes time. Don't know if you struggle with this aspect of it or not, but hell was a huge one for me. Even after I learned where the concept for hell came from, the valley of Gehenna, it took me probably a couple of years for the fear to mostly subside, but I'm fully aware that if I was forcibly placed in a church to listen to one of my former pastor's "hell sermons", it would be hard for me not to be a mess for a couple of days. Just be encouraged that while it's a slow process, better days are certainly coming.

[electech98]

I count myself a little lucky in that, because of how my church ran and how fundamentalist, literalist, and stuffy it was (there was sort of an anti-emotional thing going on in my denomination), my emotional ties to the church started to break down even before my intellectual ties did. I would have to say that if I was going somewhere else that fueled a much more emotional grip on Christianity, it would have been a WHOLE lot harder to break free from Christianity itself.

 

Struggling, are your emotional ties there mainly because of a certain church or movement that you were a part of?

 

I would try to see if there was some sort of counseling you might be able to go to, or if there is a Recovering From Religion group meeting near you (http://recoveringfromreligion.org/pages/findgroup), that might help you voice your struggles to other people who know what you are going through. Since there is not one near me, I'm thinking about contacting that site to start one up. In a conservative town like mine, I'm sure there are a number of people who need support groups while they go through the ordeal of leaving a religion.

[Legion]

You have emotions?

 

It took me years to realize that I did. Now I see how valuable and relevant they are. Not quite reflex, not quite cerebral, they're just right.

[struggling]

Wow, thanks for all the support everyone!

[struggling]

Thanks, mcdaddy. Yes, I believe I have vastly overused the emotional side. Since it's taken over, it doesn't trust the thoughts that the rational side has. I'm glad you're feeling much better about it now!

[struggling]

Positivist, yes, I am still deconverting. Even though I haven't been to church in a long time, the church is still with me.

 

Interesting suggestion to make a decision about what I'm going to believe. Okay: "I'm only going to believe things that I can learn about, question, and actually verify." That's the rational side of me saying that of course! I was so trained to just have belief for belief's sake, that I learned to close myself off to the facts even when the facts went against it. The believing part is so cut off from the thinking part. This is why it's so difficult to use facts to get out of it.

 

What do you mean by dial up the self-talk? Reminding myself of what I'm choosing to believe? Reassuring myself that it's okay to want proof of what I'm believing in?

[mcdaddy]

Thanks, mcdaddy. Yes, I believe I have vastly overused the emotional side. Since it's taken over, it doesn't trust the thoughts that the rational side has. I'm glad you're feeling much better about it now!

 

Basically we're just left with 2 options: 1) it's not real, or 2) it's real, but bible god is the most illogical, irrational, temperamental, barbaric, juvenile person I can think of. If this is true, how could we call that "God"???

 

So I stick with #1.

 

Besides all the other stuff I know that basically proves its all bullshit, this is the quickest way to remind myself I did the right thing. Once you're out looking in, it's SO EFFING OBVIOUS.

[struggling]

VacuumFlux, thanks! I like the idea of thinking about it from the perspective of the emotions themselves. Right, I'm angry that I have this fear, guilt, connection, obligation, and that I'm wrapped up in it.

 

When I'm feeling emotionally about this, I can try to stop myself and feel angry that someone taught me this was true. I had a nonsensical thought recently and after trying to unsuccessfully convince myself it wasn't true, I sat and thought about how angry I am that someone convinced me of this nonsense. At least it helped take the focus off of it for a bit.

[struggling]

Wester, I think you've hit the crux of the problem. I must have been using emotion as my interpretive tool. I think I was influenced to do this because my parents are both emotional people, and because the indoctrination I received taught me to trust my emotions and to distrust people who needed evidence and such. I received so much criticism when I asked questions or thought about things differently - in many different aspects of my life not just the religion.

[Guest wester]

Just ran across this older video today - Critical thinking brief overview:

 

Cheers

[mcdaddy]

Wester, I think you've hit the crux of the problem. I must have been using emotion as my interpretive tool. I think I was influenced to do this because my parents are both emotional people, and because the indoctrination I received taught me to trust my emotions and to distrust people who needed evidence and such. I received so much criticism when I asked questions or thought about things differently - in many different aspects of my life not just the religion.

As the song says, "Just trust and obey". Also, "Don't lean on your own understanding".

 

IDJUTS F'ER CRYST!!!!!! ME NO WANT UR "WERLDLY WIZDUM!!!"

[♦ ficino ♦]

Struggling, you pose a question that lots of us deal with/have dealt with, and there are good suggestions here. I think you hit part of your own nail on the head when you talk about being criticized when you sought to think things through or think differently. Fundy Christianity has powerful mechanisms to train its adherents to devalue their own reason and to try to have emotions they are told to have.

 

VacuumFlux and Trailblazer, I notice that VF talks about mending a relationship, and TB talks about mourning a lost one. Do you guys have insights about trying to repair a friendship but the other person remains unresponsive?

[VacuumFlux]

VacuumFlux and Trailblazer, I notice that VF talks about mending a relationship, and TB talks about mourning a lost one. Do you guys have insights about trying to repair a friendship but the other person remains unresponsive?

 

Relationships are about the intersection of two people; one person alone can only do so much. The other person's response is not under your control. I've hurt myself way too many times trying to force a bad relationship to continue. Sometimes it's best just to let it go. So if you need to apologise to someone, do so, and you can request the relationship to continue, but after that it's not really up to you. Also, if it's a relationship you want to have, but the other person doesn't, at some point it can become selfish of you to try to force your wants onto someone else. On the other hand, if this is someone you interact with (perhaps a coworker or family member) on a regular basis, or an ex where kids are involved, and you'd rather those interactions improve, it can occasionally work to say "look, I know you don't like me, and I'm not asking you to, but can we at least work out some mutually beneficial compromise where we feel neutral towards each other instead of combative?"

 

I guess the short version is that the other person is only likely to respond if they think they'll get something out of it. If they don't think it's worth their effort to do their half of the relationship, well, the only thing you could do would be to convince them that the relationship would be a net benefit to them.

 

Edit: Sometimes it may just take time. I know sometimes when I feel hurt I need some time alone to recover, but once I've taken care of myself then I've got the strength available to work with other people.

[♦ ficino ♦]

Thanks for the answers, VF. What you say is consistent with what I tell myself (heh heh), so it helps to hear it from someone else.