secondtry Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 I always chuckle every time I remember that the first 3 people I came out to as an atheist went on still speaking to me like I still believed after some time passed.lol. Is this the price of being a "I'm not interested in deconverting you" type atheist or what? two of the three are my mom and her best friend. I outright used the word "atheist" coming out to them too.lol. yet, say a month later, in conversation, my mom would forcefully tack on a "god has been so good" or "isn't God good" whenever she had some good news or use it in the beggining of what she had to say. we had a small fight about it in which I let her know those statements are perfectly appopriate if there was one other person in the room or even on the phone along with us.lol. I think it has finally sunk in...she was holding out hope that my atheism is just a phase. She's a lot more considerate about her use of God in conversations with me now...and when she does honestly slip...she's catching herself mid-sentence or pausing more quickly to rephrase or not make the mistake in the first place. -her best friend- why did I have to come out to her in the first place? On, my mom's birthday, she wanted me "as the first son, to pray for her' .lol. many months later on the phone with her "god is good" or "thank God for that". are still used casually. lol.... I just play along with a 'yes' or "amen". and i chuckle inwardly to myself. -my own now closest friend(lost my bestie in car accident)- I never quite used the word 'atheist' with him but he knows I no longer go to church and while I never went into details, I did say something like, "what if u found out the one thing u ever thought was the surest thing was completely false" while telling him about problems with accuracy of the bible and the efficacy of prayer but not trying to go into too much details. this was before I decided upon a policy of never going into details when asserting my atheism. maybe a month later, after sleeping over at his house and having to decline his family's church invitation (which was more like an expectation, assuming i was a christian...I left very early sunday morning to avoid the awkwardness.lol...all this as a baby atheist 2-3 years ago...oh the stress...lol.) I wonder if they were having a little fun with me because there was some tell that my friend had exposed my atheistic leanings to his sisters and mom. (i.e his mom randomly recommending me a bible phone app she uses...lol). My friend could not catch his knee-jerk response to my declining their church invitation...he said something with a slightly ruffled/angered tone, "common, what do you mean...'are you a pagan?" which was a bit bizzare to hear as it occured to me that I too once must have thought pagans or atheists as inferior even if I could've never said it out loud carelessly like he did. it was said in the same tone that a school bully would ask his victim "are you gay?' or "are you weak?" Many more months would pass. Its like I never came out to him..he stil references 'God' to me in conversation like he would a christian. As both budding non-established musicians/people in our twenties hoping for musical/general success for example, he would talk about how "we" the children of 'god' are suppose to be... and I'm wondering how is it "we"...how did he forget completely about my "what if you woke up one morning to find out things you thought were the surest were completely dismantled" conversation in which I hinted enough in my disbelief as best as i could without leading him through the same painful process. (hope I'm not breaking any rules...more a lurker than poster). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackpudd1n Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 Hey Secondtry Your mate probably thinks you were just going through a phase, and as such, are still a christian, maybe just a backslidden one. Maybe start wearing some atheist t-shirts; he'll get the hint more loudly, potentially avoiding an awkward conversation if he doesn't wish to confront the issue. By the way, you didn't break any rules. You didn't even swear!! Swearing's permitted here. And this is the forum for having a bitch about whatever's going on in your life. It's nice to meet you- I hope you decide to post more often Love, Pudd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted May 18, 2012 Super Moderator Share Posted May 18, 2012 I don't care what phrases they use. It's their belief and habit. I expect people to say 'God is good' or 'Thank you Jesus' or 'I feel so blessed' or even 'It wasn't in the stars' or 'This must be Karma'. Speech patterns are habit, and I don't feel such phrases are directed at me. It's just babble. Now, if someone asks me to say 'grace' at a meal then I must decline. I have no problem with someone else praying to Jesus, Krishna, Allah or L. Ron Hubbard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackpudd1n Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 Now, if someone asks me to say 'grace' at a meal then I must decline. I have no problem with someone else praying to Jesus, Krishna, Allah or L. Ron Hubbard. How long did it take you to break the grace habit? I still feel strange sometimes when I don't say grace, particularly in formal situations like christmas dinner. I still hold back a moment, even though I don't go through the motions. It just seems kind of weird still. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted May 18, 2012 Super Moderator Share Posted May 18, 2012 How long did it take you to break the grace habit? I don't actually remember; it was quite a while ago. Probably not long, as I was 'blessed' with an uneventful deconversion. I realized my error, left the religion and didn't look back. I know others have complications, but I pretty much dropped everything once I realized the religion was a crock. That realization was preceded by years of study, but it culminated in an epiphany. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackpudd1n Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 How long did it take you to break the grace habit? I don't actually remember; it was quite a while ago. Probably not long, as I was 'blessed' with an uneventful deconversion. I realized my error, left the religion and didn't look back. I know others have complications, but I pretty much dropped everything once I realized the religion was a crock. That realization was preceded by years of study, but it culminated in an epiphany. Yeah, I had an epiphany after quite a bit of research and walked away, too. It just feels weird, though. I'm 26 years and seven months old, and for the first 26 years and one month of my life, I said grace before every meal, and freaked out if I didn't. Like, if you spent your whole life wearing undies, and then suddenly decided to start going commando, it would feel a bit weird at first, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YellowJacket Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 I never did the grace thing except for show to family, and at TGiving I don't mind reciting what I'm thankful for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SusanStoHeli Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 What are you a pagan? No, I'm not that cool! Plain old agnostic atheist for me. So no need for that phone app - by me it's all a scam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
secondtry Posted May 21, 2012 Author Share Posted May 21, 2012 Hey Secondtry Your mate probably thinks you were just going through a phase, and as such, are still a christian, maybe just a backslidden one. Maybe start wearing some atheist t-shirts; he'll get the hint more loudly, potentially avoiding an awkward conversation if he doesn't wish to confront the issue. By the way, you didn't break any rules. You didn't even swear!! Swearing's permitted here. And this is the forum for having a bitch about whatever's going on in your life. It's nice to meet you- I hope you decide to post more often Love, Pudd Thank you very much for the warm welcome, pudd. I'll be sticking around 4 sure. This forum is a god-send. My swearing vocab never really developed much thanks to christianity.lol. I'm surprised I'm able to let out a few tourretes-like f-bombs once in a while but I still look to make sure no one's around. haha. My friend probably won't be needing any more hints as I finally disclosed to his younger sister too a couple of days ago. She's like family too and she's also in her twenties. As I've been considering a major outing of myself, I've been particularly concerned about how she'll take it because she's so into 'God.' she's all about gospel music and she's serious about becoming a gospel artist when we talk music. I'm usually supportive of her musical drive since I'm able to filter out the god part. it sucks knowing too well that if she should ever lose 'God', the very same original songs she hopes to use to inspire others will be part of the emotional baggage she will have to deal with.I'm glad she knows where I stand now too since I'm suppose to help her with an instrumental or two in the future. Naively, the goal was to disclose to her without having to go into details. I had figured I'd just give general answers like "let's just say I've read too much" when probed for more or ask non-shattering questions like if she'd still be christian if born into a different faith.I think I was doing okay although it was testing to try to nudge her away from assuming personal misfortune had much to do with why people ultimately become atheists as she tried to make a case for God. Once she referenced reading a book she recently bought from a woman who had visited hell 24 times though, my resolve was gone.lol. I couldn't help but ask why she believed this woman trying to sell a book and help her reassess her answer to that question and so on. There was lots of giggling on my end and I'm glad she did some laughing too. I asked her if God can ever forgive satan to which she replied laughing, "what type of question is that?" Sometimes she talked to me like I had never strongly believed in a personal Jesus. I had to remind her how serious I had been about the faith and how though i did not want to be boxed in as a gospel artist, my christian faith often did seep into my music. Apart from the usual "who are we to question God" and "because the bible says" type answers, the hardening of pharaoh's heart gave her a real pause only after retelling the story with her in pharaoh's shoes and asking her why the need to harden his heart if God knew he would not let his people go anyways or if a good god would do that. she had her longest pause since we started; I panicked in the silence. So much for me not elaborating when disclosing. She admitted she couldn't explain but that she'll get back to me on that one. Before then, I had periodically been urging her that we shouldn't continue and ofcourse being confident in her faith, she thought she could handle the reasons. I reminded her that losing 'God' was a painful development I once never expected could happen to me too. She seemed to get my concern finally but still expressed hurt to hear me say she was taking a big risk discussing these things with me because it pains her to know that I am missing out on the same wonderful relationship she knows. At the end, she reaffirms her strong faith in God and I breathe a sigh of relief. My policy of not elaborating when disclosing to a religious loved one may have failed me but her own indoctrination did not. I think we probably won't be talking about religion again and I'm glad. The goal was just disclosure afterall. I would not want her strong christian parents to rein down curses on me.LOL. It seems our friendship won't be affected much. She mostly just wishes for me to know God personally like she does even as I maintain that I did for the longest time and yet now don't believe. The most i hope for is that the little we discussed leads her towards being considerably less invested in religion incase she should find herself unable to continue a christian oneday. Now who wants to predict how much time will pass before she continues talking to me like I still believe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
secondtry Posted May 22, 2012 Author Share Posted May 22, 2012 I don't care what phrases they use. It's their belief and habit. I expect people to say 'God is good' or 'Thank you Jesus' or 'I feel so blessed' or even 'It wasn't in the stars' or 'This must be Karma'. Speech patterns are habit, and I don't feel such phrases are directed at me. It's just babble. Now, if someone asks me to say 'grace' at a meal then I must decline. I have no problem with someone else praying to Jesus, Krishna, Allah or L. Ron Hubbard. I know. I can usually tell when its a speech habit and I don't care much about those. With my mom strategically leaving christian pamphlets around the house for a while with commentary on atheism that only people still in the church would buy, I figured she was hoping testimonies could do something. Especially at the end when she would tack on an unnatural/forced "praise God" to end it even after finishing her good news and pausing.she certainly wasn't that unnatural about relaying good news like that when I was a christian. I could just tell and I made sure that that was what it was before calling her on it. lol. my mom's awesome anyways. I suspect she can finally see that I am happier and more resilient as a secular humanist than I ever was as a christian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedStar Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 On, my mom's birthday, she wanted me "as the first son, to pray for her' Since she knew you had deconverted this was a very manipulative thing to do. I can't stand people like that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
secondtry Posted May 22, 2012 Author Share Posted May 22, 2012 On, my mom's birthday, she wanted me "as the first son, to pray for her' Since she knew you had deconverted this was a very manipulative thing to do. I can't stand people like that! oh no. she didn't know yet. That was when I had to come out to her. She must have known I was agnostic at least as she knew i had stopped attending church for at least 2 years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedStar Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 oh no. she didn't know yet. That was when I had to come out to her. She must have known I was agnostic at least as she knew i had stopped attending church for at least 2 years Ah, that's ok then. Even when I was still in the religion I hated it when people asked me to pray for someone out loud in front of everyone. No thanks! Haha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaiser01 Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 My mom still talks to me like im a christian and so does my father, i think its becuase they refuse to accept that i dont accept their god anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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