Adam5 Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Hi Friends, one of the things that used to worry me as a Christian was whether my behaviour was selfish. Looking back on it, Christianity made me more of a selfish person. Even though its supposed to do the opposite. Christianity for me was quite a self centered experience. I wasnt going out helping people. And I think most were like this. Looking after number one. I mean arent there a billion of starving people in the world, and lots of worthy charities out there. Charities that actually support good causes, and not pay it all to themselves. Why the hell are we all happy clappy and signing songs to ourselves. Its bullshit. Raising money for church buildings. Praying to imaginary friends. Jesus. I mean why? Why does "God" >>need<< prayer. Answer. He doesnt. An all powerful God needs no-one. He doesnt need our advice. If we are talking the supposed all powerful loving God. This God could if he wanted fix the worlds problems. But what do we find? WW2 60 million people died. 6 million Jews were gassed. And God did nothing. He chilled with Jesus and did nothing to help any of them. He will sit by and let all these dreadful things happen. Every day in the newspapers we read horror stories. This is the thing. An all powerful good God is going to do the right thing whatever we ask for. It doesnt matter if we go to church or pray or whatever. Prayer is totally pointless. We arent going to change Gods mind. In fact we could be asking him to do the wrong thing. This is what they wont tell you in church, that prayer is essentially a selfish act. And worse that that it is pointless cause if there is a good God he will do the right thing anyway and you or I wont change his / her mind. Lets face it. The reason the clergy and the laity are there is cause they are feeding their egos. They do it to increase their self worth and delude themselves in thinking the universe revolves around them. It doesnt. So lets be honest here. Religious behavoiur is deluded, selfish and self centered. Your thoughts? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam5 Posted May 23, 2012 Author Share Posted May 23, 2012 Hi Folks, can you edit or delete your posts after you make them? I just fired off this rant, and now think, man, i could soften the language somewhat. But what the hell i find this rant forum therapeutic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjessen Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Hey Adam5, yes you can edit your post after you post it. Just click on "Edit" at the bottom of the post and it will reload and you can change whatever you want. I find this forum therapeutic too. Regarding prayer, I think prayer to God is pointless if you are thinking it is going to move some all-powerful being to act on your behalf. I have heard of studies, however, where prayer has been shown to be of benefit to the one praying and the one receiving the prayer. I still believe there are mysteries and personally, I think there is a spiritual/energetic aspect to life and our being and somehow prayer gets us in touch with that. Perhaps science will one day explain this. They are now being able to photograph the energy of a person, so there are things going on that we can't see. BTW, rant away! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GothiCat Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 I agree that Christians are extremely selfish and self centered for the most part. I had some very negative experiences with church friends of my Step-moms a few years back. If they did anything to help anyone at all it wasn't really to help that person, they were "doing it for Jeebus" They even admitted that it was for scoring brownie points for the afterlife. What a crock. Mostly though, they did nothing, except "pray" for people, which essentially is them doing nothing and being a smug bastard while sitting on their asses feeling superior. Yes this kind of behavior "is" deluded, selfish and self centered. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CDFree Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 And the preachers and church leaders are the worst example of selfcentredness, they only want folk to bolster their egos!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjessen Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 And the preachers and church leaders are the worst example of selfcentredness, they only want folk to bolster their egos!!! I suppose this is true of some, but I think there are others who are sincere believers and go into the ministry to serve God and be ministers to people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcdaddy Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 If god won't help someone unless I petition him to, then that's dickishness of the highest order. "I wanted to help your son, Johnny, I realize he was in tremendous pain and agony, but you didn't ask. So he's fucked, sorry. It's your fault really". Oh, and lest we forget, you say god did nothing while 60 mil were killed in ww2.....I say he prevented it from being 60 BILLION. So he is a good god, see!??? IT'S SO DAMN CLEAR!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exevolt Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Christianity is selfishness disguised as unselfishness. Personally I would feel more comfortable aiding a non-profit SECULAR humanitarian group rather than a religious one. Secular group gives them food, medical aid, education, free of charge. Religious ones usually aren't around long as it's most the times small movements made up of missionaries who'll be there for not too long just hoping to get their conversion badge for scout master Jesus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcdaddy Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Christianity is selfishness disguised as unselfishness. Personally I would feel more comfortable aiding a non-profit SECULAR humanitarian group rather than a religious one. Secular group gives them food, medical aid, education, free of charge. Religious ones usually aren't around long as it's most the times small movements made up of missionaries who'll be there for not too long just hoping to get their conversion badge for scout master Jesus. That's a pretty good way of putting it. Once the tribe has converted to the white mans religion, what else is there left to do? They got their bus ticket to unlimited cheese fries and Icees. Let em starve for all we care. They'll thank us in the afterlife. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
59strat Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 I'm with you. It's very selfish. I'm amazed how it messes with your motives. None of your motives are pure as a christian. You're trying to please god, trying to convert people, trying to make up for "sin" and atone for guilt. These are not healthy motives. i'm so glad to be free of all that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcdaddy Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 I like to ask Xians, who would god be more pleased with: the Christian who feeds the hungry, expecting a reward in heaven, or the atheist who expects nothing in return?" They know the answer. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CDFree Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 And the preachers and church leaders are the worst example of selfcentredness, they only want folk to bolster their egos!!! I suppose this is true of some, but I think there are others who are sincere believers and go into the ministry to serve God and be ministers to people. I used to think there were one it two, but I've been proved wrong! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjessen Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 I'm with you. It's very selfish. I'm amazed how it messes with your motives. None of your motives are pure as a christian. You're trying to please god, trying to convert people, trying to make up for "sin" and atone for guilt. These are not healthy motives. i'm so glad to be free of all that. I am sure there are Christian programs that help those in need without expecting anything in return. And I don't agree that doing something to please God is an ultimately selfish motive. You can desire to please him out of love and appreciation, not for personal reward. Some people give up a lot to serve a God of love and compassion and they want to help those in need. I have known some good pastors who genuinely want to help their flock. I agree some aspects are selfish, especially those who are trying to work their way into heaven or earn jewels for their crown, but if you believe you have a free pass through the death of Jesus, there is no need to do anything else but sit on your butt and wait to die. You're covered. I just don't think you can lump all Christians together like it sounds to me like you are doing. IMO, some are motivated by personal gain, but others are not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjessen Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 And the preachers and church leaders are the worst example of selfcentredness, they only want folk to bolster their egos!!! I suppose this is true of some, but I think there are others who are sincere believers and go into the ministry to serve God and be ministers to people. I used to think there were one it two, but I've been proved wrong! It sounds to me like we have had very different experiences! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
59strat Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 I am sure there are Christian programs that help those in need without expecting anything in return. And I don't agree that doing something to please God is an ultimately selfish motive. You can desire to please him out of love and appreciation, not for personal reward. Some people give up a lot to serve a God of love and compassion and they want to help those in need. I have known some good pastors who genuinely want to help their flock. I agree some aspects are selfish, especially those who are trying to work their way into heaven or earn jewels for their crown, but if you believe you have a free pass through the death of Jesus, there is no need to do anything else but sit on your butt and wait to die. You're covered. I just don't think you can lump all Christians together like it sounds to me like you are doing. IMO, some are motivated by personal gain, but others are not. I can only speak from my experience, so you are right that I shouldn't try to generalize for all christians. In the church i went to, the pastors were always trying to keep people motivated to do good, be it giving money, volunteering, etc. To me the result was motivation out of guilt or compulsion. Now when I help someone out or donate money to a cause, I do it because I wanted to do it. Not because it was strongly suggested to me several times, not because so-and-so is doing it and if i am not there it might look bad, not because i will feel guilty if i don't do it, etc. Other churches might be different. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjessen Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 I am sure there are Christian programs that help those in need without expecting anything in return. And I don't agree that doing something to please God is an ultimately selfish motive. You can desire to please him out of love and appreciation, not for personal reward. Some people give up a lot to serve a God of love and compassion and they want to help those in need. I have known some good pastors who genuinely want to help their flock. I agree some aspects are selfish, especially those who are trying to work their way into heaven or earn jewels for their crown, but if you believe you have a free pass through the death of Jesus, there is no need to do anything else but sit on your butt and wait to die. You're covered. I just don't think you can lump all Christians together like it sounds to me like you are doing. IMO, some are motivated by personal gain, but others are not. I can only speak from my experience, so you are right that I shouldn't try to generalize for all christians. In the church i went to, the pastors were always trying to keep people motivated to do good, be it giving money, volunteering, etc. To me the result was motivation out of guilt or compulsion. Now when I help someone out or donate money to a cause, I do it because I wanted to do it. Not because it was strongly suggested to me several times, not because so-and-so is doing it and if i am not there it might look bad, not because i will feel guilty if i don't do it, etc. Other churches might be different. The last church I attended was really good at using guilt to manipulate. I understand what you are saying. It is so much nicer to be free to do or not do as you please without a thought of reward or losing out on a reward that you might have been given. One pastor shared a story that some guy dies and goes to heaven and is shown a room full of all the reward he might have gotten if he had done the things he was supposed to do. Ugh! I do agree that that tactic can be used by preachers and it is pretty effective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam5 Posted May 24, 2012 Author Share Posted May 24, 2012 Christianity is selfishness disguised as unselfishness. Personally I would feel more comfortable aiding a non-profit SECULAR humanitarian group rather than a religious one. Secular group gives them food, medical aid, education, free of charge. Religious ones usually aren't around long as it's most the times small movements made up of missionaries who'll be there for not too long just hoping to get their conversion badge for scout master Jesus. Nicely put that expresses it perfectly. Secular humanitarian and animal charities are more effective than religious ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spherr Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 And the preachers and church leaders are the worst example of selfcentredness, they only want folk to bolster their egos!!! I can SO agree with that statement! (Although not all of them are that way...some do have a heart and care for others) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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