Still Hiding

[darwinfish]

I don't understand what it's like for other ex-religious people. I've been listening to the Recovering From Religion podcast and they have interviewed people from so many different backgrounds. And, it seems like when everyone else comes out, they tell everyone, and then their turn their lives upside down. But, then they're out and no longer keeping quiet.

 

When I came out to my wife, I thought that's pretty much what would happen to me. And, it kind of did for a little while. But, now, we go to church each week. Most people don't know I'm an atheist, and I don't get into it with anyone. I still haven't told any of my friends or family. And, it almost seems like nothing's really changed, other than now my wife knows that I really don't believe.

 

How do you decide to pick your battles? I haven't told my family because we never talk religion or politics, and it would feel awkward to make a point of it to them. I haven't told my friends because I see them 4-5 times a year, and I don't want to ruin our time out, by getting into it. I realized it feels like I'm still in the closet. There's so many times at work someone will say, "pray for me ..." or "I'm praying for you ..." and I don't want to turn that into some sort of argument.

 

So, now I feel like I don't talk to my atheism to anyone, and other than my recovery group. I don't even know any atheists, and it feels like I'm still in the closet. Am I the only one that feels like this?

[florduh]

You may already know some atheists, but if you all stay in the closet none will ever realize they are not alone.

[blackpudd1n]

Florduh's right, Illusion. Finding out that you have a friend who is in the exact same place in life is so totally awesome, but I have always come out first. I've never made a huge deal about it- a comment in passing (an ex of mine, who is ex-c, nearly spat his coffee all over the table when I told him- I was very, very, very fundy. I didn't know the extent of his own deconversion), or just wearing pro-atheist clothing is enough. Ex-C's will notice the clothing. You don't have to make a huge deal of it, just be open and make it casual. Essentially, just be yourself and say what you think.

[sjessen]

So, now I feel like I don't talk to my atheism to anyone, and other than my recovery group. I don't even know any atheist, and it feels like I'm still in the closet. Am I the only one that feels like this?

 

Hi illusion, you are way ahead of me. I don't even have a recovery group to go to. This site is the only place where I talk about my de-conversion. I do feel like I am still in the closet. The only thing that has changed for me is I don't go to church any more. My hubby never went with me. I don't know if he understands where I am at or not. I haven't said anything to my fundie brother. I put up a thread about my "coming out" and the advice I got was that you don't owe anyone an explanation or have to share your new mind-set with anyone. If you want to tell someone and it feels right, go ahead, otherwise it might be wise to keep it to yourself and spare yourself the abuse you may get from telling people. I must say that you continuing to go to church definitely gives the impression that nothing has changed for you. Nothing wrong with that, just FYI.

[darwinfish]

Well, maybe I some people are staying quiet, but I don't think that would apply to most of the people I know. And Sjessen, the recovery group is a good place to meet atheists, and talk about rational beliefs, you might try to look for one in your area. But, yeah, I'd thought I would be more open after I came out, and now I feel like, what's the point. No one will even listen to reason. And, worse case, they hate me for challenging their beliefs. I guess, maybe I shouldn't have come out at all. I sort of went through all that for nothing.

[sjessen]

Well, maybe I some people are staying quiet, but I don't think that would apply to most of the people I know. And Sjessen, the recovery group is a good place to meet atheists, and talk about rational beliefs, you might try to look for one in your area. But, yeah, I'd thought I would be more open after I came out, and now I feel like, what's the point. No one will even listen to reason. And, worse case, they hate me for challenging their beliefs. I guess, maybe I shouldn't have come out at all. I sort of went through all that for nothing.

 

I don't understand what you mean by "I sort of went through all that for nothing." Can you be more specific?

[darwinfish]

I don't understand what you mean by "I sort of went through all that for nothing." Can you be more specific?

 

Well, back in jan I came out to my wife, she didn't talk to me for three days and when she did respond to me she had so much anger that I thought for sure she was going to leave me. A few days later she calmed down. She told me how scared she was that I would leave her or that I would find an atheist woman and start cheating on her (because, of course, atheists have no morals). She started going through my emails and found some correspondence to Recovering from Religion. So, that started the conversation about me going to the recovery groups. now, when I come back from each meeting she expects a detail account. She, also, wanted to meet with people from the group. So, a few of us went out for drinks last time after the meeting, which I was a little nervous about but went well. Because it means so much to her to go to church as a family, I told her I would do that and let her put the kids in Christian school. Every month when the recovery meetings come around, I get anxious about a week before, because I'm afraid I'm going to ignite another fight. And, now that I sort of realized that I still do all of the Christian things I did before, I'm still raising my kids in the church, and I still keep my skepticism to myself, I sort of think that I created this huge rift between me and my wife, and gained absolutely nothing by doing it.

 

I think for my part, I'm wondering if anyone else out there feels like they've been pushed back into a closet, or is still contently compromising to keep the peace. Or is this really just a different situation. Maybe I've comprised too much, maybe I haven't been outspoken enough, or maybe I really should just keep it all to myself because it's such an uphill battle.

[Blue elephant]

Hey Illusion

 

I think you are taking a wise and laid back approach with your wife about this deconversion stuff. Your wife really needs to know that you are the same person you always were and just get used to the idea so that she can relax with you again.

 

The relationship with your wife and kids is the most important thing in this world.

 

As for the rest of them, the only people you might wish to have an upfront conversation is the ones that rabbit on and on about religion.

 

Remember - not being religious is actually the normal state of affairs, although you wouldn't know it if you live in the US at the moment!

[Guest wester]

Anyone who makes you walk on eggshells like you described is propping a head trip on you.

In compromising to keep the peace, you are already light years ahead of your wife (morally, ethically, spiritually?) and she doesn't seem to realize it or doesn't want to acknowledge.

 

If I were you I would take a hard look at the relationship and demand at least as much respect for your ideas and feelings as your wife demands for hers.

 

In a similar situation I would leave, but that's just me. I was head tripped and guilt tripped and I had to swallow double standards to no end when I was young. Now I just don't have the energy or willingness to put up with the drama or the eggshells anymore.

 

Cheers and Best of luck to you.

[Serendipity Rose]

Illusion, I think I felt kind of you did for a while. I came out to my husband and it was hard but he didn't react as strongly as your wife did. But we did have the "tradition" of going to church together and I continued to go with him but it only took me a few weeks where I just couldn't stand it any more. I had already been getting angry by some of the things that the priest would say, mostly political. My husband was afraid that because I didn't believe in god, that I felt that I didn't have any purpose in life. I'm sure that's something christians of all denominations say about atheists and I'm sure it was difficult for him to figure out what it would be like for me to not have that "faith" to fall back on.

 

I do think that it is important that you be true to yourself. You sound like you must be a very considerate and thoughtful guy considering you are going to church with your wife still. But don't forget that part of what made you uncomfortable with religion and felt the need to come out in the first place mostly likely had something to do with the untruths that you were hearing in the church. You're feeling uncomfortable again because you are continuing to experience those untruths in your relationship with your wife. You sound like a patient person and there is nothing wrong with that and maybe that patience will pay off and help you to be able to continue your relationship with your wife. But not being true to your own feelings about being shoved back into the closet will not be good for you, your wife or your relationship. As hard as it may be you need to do something. Even if it is just a little thing that let's your wife know that while you are still the same person, that you don't find the rituals of religion to be of help to you and that you would like to find other ways and traditions that you do find helpful. Maybe you will find something that is truly helpful to you, or maybe it will just help you and especially your wife begin to see things in a different light.

 

What I'm thinking of are spiritual things like learning to meditate, learning about other religions by watching videos, reading or attending lectures, attending a Unitarian Universalist church alone, or together.

 

Coming out and getting everyone upset about it isn't for everyone. I haven't found it necessary to come outright and tell anyone (religious) I am an atheist other than very close friends and family. And then I did it carefully with a long discussion about philosophical matters rather than just blurting it out. You have to find what works for you but go ahead and try it out if you can. Sometimes I let people know by asking if the event will have any religious topics because I'm not interested in attending an event with religion intersected into it. (I live in the south, it's inevitable that most events will have someone praising or praying for something.)

 

At one point I began to feel really frustrated, mostly with myself, because I couldn't stop myself from doing the sign of the cross every time we would have dinner together. I respect my husband's religious needs because he just isn't going to change. It is too ingrained in him and his entire family is religious. But I wanted to let him know that I no longer wanted to say "grace" before dinner. Not because I wasn't thankful for what we had but because I WAS thankful. But I was thankful to him for working to provide for his family and thankful for my kids helping me get the dinner ready. So I just quit. Once in a while I will jump in and say I'm going to say the prayer and I just thank everyone involved, out loud.

 

You have to find what works and is right for you. But continuing to stay in the closet won't be healthy so please speak up in some small way. It's a process for some of us, over many years even.

 

Good luck!

Rose

[Adam5]

it seems like when everyone else comes out, they tell everyone, and then their turn their lives upside down. But, then they're out and no longer keeping quiet.

 

Hi Illusion, I personally dont think its often like that. If you could interview a random selection of "Christians" and if they were to give honest answers, you would find that they believe in a whole bunch of different things

 

There are a lot of people in the pews who are skpetical and many who are in fact can be classed as apostates or unbelievers. In fact christians are always complaining that people dont believe the fundie doctrines anymore i.e. no longer so brainwashed

 

Personally when I am asked about why Ive stopped believing I avoid discussion, and this is presently the only place I have a rant about it Adam

[mcdaddy]

I don't understand what you mean by "I sort of went through all that for nothing." Can you be more specific?

 

Well, back in jan I came out to my wife, she didn't talk to me for three days and when she did respond to me she had so much anger that I thought for sure she was going to leave me. A few days later she calmed down. She told me how scared she was that I would leave her or that I would find an atheist woman and start cheating on her (because, of course, atheists have no morals). She started going through my emails and found some correspondence to Recovering from Religion. So, that started the conversation about me going to the recovery groups. now, when I come back from each meeting she expects a detail account. She, also, wanted to meet with people from the group. So, a few of us went out for drinks last time after the meeting, which I was a little nervous about but went well. Because it means so much to her to go to church as a family, I told her I would do that and let her put the kids in Christian school. Every month when the recovery meetings come around, I get anxious about a week before, because I'm afraid I'm going to ignite another fight. And, now that I sort of realized that I still do all of the Christian things I did before, I'm still raising my kids in the church, and I still keep my skepticism to myself, I sort of think that I created this huge rift between me and my wife, and gained absolutely nothing by doing it.

 

I think for my part, I'm wondering if anyone else out there feels like they've been pushed back into a closet, or is still contently compromising to keep the peace. Or is this really just a different situation. Maybe I've comprised too much, maybe I haven't been outspoken enough, or maybe I really should just keep it all to myself because it's such an uphill battle.

 

I know exactly what you're talking about. I'm in the same boat, but I haven't come as far out the closet as you have. I still go to church, I'm not bothered by it, and I like the people (and free coffee!). My wife's free to believe what she wants and I just encourage my girls to think critically an don't just believe stuff with no proof. It's probably gonna be this way for a loooong time. But I'm ok with that.

[darwinfish]

The relationship with your wife and kids is the most important thing in this world.

 

My main goal is to do what I can to create a healthy environment for my kids, and do my best to have a loving relationship with my wife. There are times when I feel like I'm putting into the relationship more than what I'm getting, but I'm sure that she would say the same of me. She's not a bad person, but it's very difficult for her to see things from other people's perspective.

 

[quote name=wester'

timestamp='1337839796' post='763679]

If I were you I would take a hard look at the relationship and demand at least as much respect for your ideas and feelings as your wife demands for hers.

 

Depending on my mood, sometimes I do. But, now a days, I'm feeling defeated. I don't want to have to report to her everything that we talk about in my recovery group. I don't mind bringing her to hang out for drinks afterwards, but to do that, we have to have the in-laws watch the kids. And, we're very careful not to say that it's for an atheist group meeting, because my mother-in-law would probably fly off the handle (although, my wife told both of them I'm an atheist, they just don't talk about it when I visit). It's starting to feel like I have to make all sorts of compromises just to have a conversation with another atheist. I keep my "incognito mode" on when visiting this website to avoid any fights on the matter.

 

 

What I'm thinking of are spiritual things like learning to meditate, learning about other religions by watching videos, reading or attending lectures, attending a Unitarian Universalist church alone, or together.

 

 

I see a lot of other atheists promoting meditation and things like that, for my part, I don't really understand what that is or what they are getting out of it. As for attending a Unitarian church, I see the appeal, but I don't think I'd get as much out of a church as I would from just a group of atheists that want to talk about their experiences.

[darwinfish]

Sometimes you can use your hidden status to manipulate the religious idiots.......it CAN work to your advantage...

 

that's devious. I like it

 

There are a lot of people in the pews who are skpetical and many who are in fact can be classed as apostates or unbelievers. In fact christians are always complaining that people dont believe the fundie doctrines anymore i.e. no longer so brainwashed

,

 

I'm still looking for that person. I'll keep my eyes open.

 

 

 

I know exactly what you're talking about. I'm in the same boat, but I haven't come as far out the closet as you have. I still go to church, I'm not bothered by it, and I like the people (and free coffee!). My wife's free to believe what she wants and I just encourage my girls to think critically an don't just believe stuff with no proof. It's probably gonna be this way for a loooong time. But I'm ok with that.

 

thanks, Mcdaddy. And, good luck to you, with your situation.