scarfwearer Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Greetings all. I am a college student studying computer science and astronomy at a public college. I was home schooled in a christian home for all of my pre-college schooling. I recently had serious doubts and misgivings about christianity and am giving it up. I have been going to church for all of my life and that would almost be twenty three years. I have always lived around christians, but I always had slight doubts about it. Of course they were almost always quashed immediately when I would talk about it with my parents. I have especially vivd memories of refusing to read revelation because it was downright scary and just plain weird. I also never did Pokemon because everybody thought it was satanic. I wonder now, how many people are obsessed with stuff being of the devil? I was in the boy scout like thing in church and remember kids adjusting pins on their uniforms such they wouldn't align in a certain way and make a symbol of the devil. I even did the Vulcan salute once in sunday school and had that shot down as being a symbol of the devil. The only really blatantly unchristian thing my family has always done was let me enjoy Star Trek, especially The Next Generation. The first time I saw "Who Watches the Watchers" I was thoroughly caught up in the story. Then I think my doubts really began to set in in the last year or so. I guess it is because I have had actual interactions with non-believers at school, including some professors I admire greatly. I really had a wake up when I realized a few years ago that christmas isn't really all about christ, so what's the big deal about this holiday? To me it only exists so you can meet all your nerf herder relatives that think they are something because they moved to Texas and here them praise the virtues of using feet and gallons. I had an experience at church about a year ago. There was a man preaching/talking about when he was young. Keep in mind that the man talking appeared to be in his late forties. He was talking about how there was this boy he kept wanting to witness too, but never did. Ends up the boy accidentally died before the man could witness to him. Now the man still has nightmares because he didn't witness to him and the boy has gone to hell and it is his fault because he wasn't witnessed too. He actually broke down and was crying on stage because of this. The man wanted us to feel guilty because we were not witnessing. it had the opposite affect on me. I realized the whole argument was wrong because if we have not witnessed to everyone, then aren't we all guilty every time someone dies? This just doesn't make sense. Have you ever been to one of those churches were they make you stand every time the preacher reads from the book? If we should stand in respect of God's word, wouldn't that imply we should stand in the presence of anything he created? Meaning we should always be standing if he created the world? And then later on in the service the preacher reads more verses and no one is standing but him. A few months later, I am walking with my gf and she was talking about writing papers in her philosophy class. We eventually wander past a bus stop where one of her friends was waiting for a ride. They talk for a good half hour together about eastern philosophy in general and then we walk on. I go home and start googling this stuff because it was all very interesting to me, not in the sense that I wanted to believe it, but in let's find out more about this because I haven't looked into it before. This was the first time I think that it really hit that there are really other religions or belief systems that people believe in and don't really care about what you think and they might just be ok believing it. This sorta lay dormant until about a week ago when for some odd reason I decided to google arguments against christianity. I was of course shocked with what I read, but then the logicness of it all began to set in. I think one of the big ones is the differences of the nuke all the natives god in the ot vs the nt love 'n' joy except when I am judgmental god. I also have very low tolerance for fire and brimstone preaching. It's basically all emotional with no logical basis whatsoever. The other is the whole god works in mysterious ways thing. Please, this just means you can't answer the question because you just can't, so you bailout. Another one is, the bible is true because it says it is true. This is so wrong on many accounts, logical and factual. In other words: Note to christians, please stop trying to prove the bible using the bible. This argument is very bad, especially after I have taken umpteen science and math courses. I think really what nailed it, is when I looked at some creationists sites recently and was reading about stellar evolution. They were saying it doesn't happen because we don't see it happening. Please... Explain then about evaporating gaseous globules, the Pillars of Creation, and other examples of current observable star formation. And what about supernovae? This are all examples of stars in states of flux. Then there is the whole literalist thing. If the whole bible is true then what about the pi=3 business? Any sane mathematical person would know this wrong. Even in ancient time. If we can disregard that then the rest falls too. If we can ignore or reinterpret this and say that is outdated, then you may as well just take your scissors after it. If creationists say that the bible/church explains the world, I think I might say to look back at Galileo's experiences... I am also not going to go just act "wicked" because I am giving up. I still believe that man should have morals. The ability to choose his outcomes should should not be taken lightly. If anyone says that now I have nothing to live for, I would say I like to live for the betterment of human society, not glorification of some invisible sky thing. My only problem now is I don't think I could possibly tell my parents as I cannot properly gauge their reaction. I think they have always known that I have been rather reluctant to go to church, but I think they think it is because I just don't like get up in the morning. I really don't want to hurt their feelings, but I just don't want to go to church anymore as feel it's just a sham. I also am starting a summer job and am not looking forward to my dad pestering me about tithe. I guess I could say that I have not found a church/organization that I can give to in good conscience. The only thing he has really confronted me about was that I shouldn't read my copy of Carl Sagan's cosmos because Sagan is an atheist. I think I might just read it again and see what happens. Live long and prosper. (Insert Vulcan Salute here) 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcdaddy Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 I promise I'll read your whole extimony later. But for now, I'll just say welcome out of the madness! What you'll find is that ex-C's are just about the most honest and caring people there are, contrary to what the church may say. Glad to have you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjessen Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Hi and Welcome! After reading your extimony, I must say that Spock would be proud. You have used some excellent logic in your pursuit of the truth. Good luck dealing with your parents and I look forward to reading more of your posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Margee Posted May 24, 2012 Moderator Share Posted May 24, 2012 Welcome scarfwearer! So glad you joined Ex-c. I read your story...thank you for sharing this. You're amonst friends here!! We share this commom belief that christianity is bullshit right from the beginnings of Genesis!! What i picked up onin your post was this man you were speaking about that didn't witness to the young boy. The guilt that this poor brainwashed man has to carry!! If father, son and holy ghost are for real..they made the whole universe!! If they could magically do this, then why can't 'they' come down and witness to humans in person so we didn't have to go on with this concept of 'faith'!!! Stupid plan ............ Really Good to have you with us!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Positivist Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 Welcome to Ex-C! I envy that you found your way out of the Christian maze in your early 20s! I do find it fascinating that you were home-schooled, probably with the intent to keep this very thing (deconversion) from happening, and yet here you are. I hope you find your feet soon and it sounds like you are well on your way to knowing what you believe to be true. Keep learning, and hang out with us! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Droptail Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 The only really blatantly unchristian thing my family has always done was let me enjoy Star Trek, especially The Next Generation. The first time I saw "Who Watches the Watchers" I was thoroughly caught up in the story. I actually saw that episode the other day! The storyline (and the series as a whole) has probably compelled more than a few people to think more critically and rationally. I also got to watch TNG when I was younger despite growing up in a fundie family. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam5 Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 What is ironic here is that the vulcan salute actually has its origins in a blessing guesture used by jewish priests The hand salute forms the letter Shin which stands for Shaddai, meaning Almighty God. So far from being a symbol of the devil is actually somekind of god salute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam5 Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 I just told people I know that I find the sermons boring, and am taking a break. Not that I dont intend ever going back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackpudd1n Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 Welcome to Ex-C, Scarfwearer. Your post was just so inspirational, beautifully articulated and logical. I really hope you stick around, because I would love to read more of them. Welcome home 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jblueep Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 Welcome to EX-C! My wife (2honest) and I love TNG Stick around and make some friends! Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darklady Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 your story shows how level headed and logical you are, no wonder you always had some questions, even as a child. Re going to church, you could try the 'im searching for the truth, need to sort things out in my head' tact. Sometimes the head on approach works, other times people need to just slide out, you know your family. Peace and welcome Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2Honest Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 Welcome, scarfweaver! I'm so glad you've found your way out at such a young age. Now you are free to enjoy your life, learn, grow and have a kick-ass time doing it! Good for you! Glad you found us. Hope you can stay awhile. I know there are many young people here your age who could use your knowledge and support. 2H Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scarfwearer Posted May 25, 2012 Author Share Posted May 25, 2012 Thank you all for your responses! Welcome to Ex-C! I envy that you found your way out of the Christian maze in your early 20s! I do find it fascinating that you were home-schooled, probably with the intent to keep this very thing (deconversion) from happening, and yet here you are. I hope you find your feet soon and it sounds like you are well on your way to knowing what you believe to be true. Keep learning, and hang out with us! I think the other reason I was homeschooled was to keep me out of the drama of public schools. I am rather thankful of that. What is ironic here is that the vulcan salute actually has its origins in a blessing guesture used by jewish priests The hand salute forms the letter Shin which stands for Shaddai, meaning Almighty God. So far from being a symbol of the devil is actually somekind of god salute. I had found out about that and do find it rather amusing. your story shows how level headed and logical you are, no wonder you always had some questions, even as a child. Re going to church, you could try the 'im searching for the truth, need to sort things out in my head' tact. Sometimes the head on approach works, other times people need to just slide out, you know your family. Peace and welcome I have said some things like that and usually get the come to church and it will help you sorta thing. I usually go along anyway because I don't really want to upset anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaiser01 Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 Greetings sir you are amoungst the inteligent have no fear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConureDelSol Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 You like Star Trek, used the term "nerf herder", AND you're reading Cosmos? I think we're going to get along FAMOUSLY. I haven't come out to my parents yet either. They already know how disenchanted I am with church though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thought2Much Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 You like Star Trek, used the term "nerf herder", AND you're reading Cosmos? I think we're going to get along FAMOUSLY. I haven't come out to my parents yet either. They already know how disenchanted I am with church though. I give him points off for not using "scruffy looking" in connection with "nerf herder." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcdaddy Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 What is a nerf herder? I'm going to guess its in the genus of "perjorative". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thought2Much Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 What is a nerf herder? I'm going to guess its in the genus of "perjorative". It's from The Empire Strikes Back. Princess Leia chews out Han Solo, calling him, among other things, "scruffy looking," and a "nerf herder." After listening to her vent, Han just looks at her and says, "Who's scruffy looking?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
♦ ficino ♦ Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 Hello scarfwearer, welcome to this site! It's great to read your story. I note that you are studying astronomy. One of the stalwarts on this site, Born Again Athiest (that's how he spells it) is very up on astronomy. I envy your seeing through the cult in college. That's the age when I fell into it (aargh). What does your girlfriend think about your new perspectives? Is/was she a Christian? BTW tell us more about your scarves lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scarfwearer Posted May 25, 2012 Author Share Posted May 25, 2012 You like Star Trek, used the term "nerf herder", AND you're reading Cosmos? I think we're going to get along FAMOUSLY. I haven't come out to my parents yet either. They already know how disenchanted I am with church though. I give him points off for not using "scruffy looking" in connection with "nerf herder." It's not the scruffiness that bothered me... Hello scarfwearer, welcome to this site! It's great to read your story. I note that you are studying astronomy. One of the stalwarts on this site, Born Again Athiest (that's how he spells it) is very up on astronomy. I envy your seeing through the cult in college. That's the age when I fell into it (aargh). What does your girlfriend think about your new perspectives? Is/was she a Christian? BTW tell us more about your scarves lol She approves. I think from what I have gathered from her, she never was and doesn't want to ever be. She is a very literate person, but refuses to read the bible. She knows that all religion is, well, I won't use the word she used... She is one of the few people I can consider a renaissance person. Fourth Doctor scarf... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShackledNoMore Posted May 26, 2012 Share Posted May 26, 2012 Given some of the crazy benign things that some xians get bent out of shape about, it amazes me that relatively few of them seem to have a problem with Star Trek. There are other examples of things that might bother them, but I agree, "Who Watches the Watchers" has to be the prime candidate. (It is also one of my favorite episodes.) I've marveled that fundies didn't seem to go into widespread convulsions the moment it came out. I think those who are OK with it are so indoctrinated that theirs is the real god, and The Picard is not (it's just a science fiction show), that it flies right over their heads. It's ironic that "Plato's Stepchildren" from TOS caused the biggest stir, although it was about race rather than religious memes. It was the bible belt where it caused all the uproar (Nichelle Nichols ancestor saw his father naked 4000 years ago, dontcha know). I have to say, batshit crazy as my house and church were, and they were batshit crazy, there wasn't a taboo against the Vulcan salute. Welcome Scarfwearer, live long and prosper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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