Positivist Posted May 27, 2012 Share Posted May 27, 2012 Whether to appease the fundy-in-laws or to find a place of community (that I realize now I don’t need), in a weakened emotional state after a rough day I thought I’d look into a local church. I’ve heard a few folks here talk about the Unitarian / Universalist church and so I thought I’d look it up online. They certainly don’t seem to nickel and dime each other on minutiae of doctrine or Biblical TruthTM, but rather it’s a community who believes: The inherent worth and dignity of every person Justice, equity and compassion in human relations Acceptance of one another and encouragement to spiritual growth in our congregations A free and responsible search for truth and meaning The right of conscience and the use of the democratic process within our congregations and in society at large The goal of world community with peace, liberty, and justice for all Respect for the interdependent web of all existence of which we are a part. Seems cool, right? And they have various speakers so pastoral power is distributed to lay leaders. Whatever, I could live with that. So, I looked further into the website, and they had a roster of members who were coordinating individual services and who the main speaker was. I was shocked to discover that I knew several of these people! I live in a small community (<100,000) and the ‘congregation’ is 10-20 people. Of these: One of them is a lunatic (and I mean this in the psychiatric sense) who is into woo and wicca; she has a grade 9 education and tends to go into trances midconversation. One of them is a neo-hippy who I actually really, really admire and respect because he is true to his convictions. One of them is from the neighbouring community I worked in for five years. She made my life a living hell for all of those five years, through no fault of mine and despite the numerous olive branches I extended. Her cruelty finally drove me to resign, after her last shitstorm that caused me to question my very purpose and my career. (I gave, and I gave, and I gave; I fucking bled for this community, and it just takes one hateful bitch to be the cancer cell that finally brings you down.) I was surprised to see the range of individuals who attend this faith community, and fascinated that the Mean Bitch is clearly not in this community for the purpose of becoming a nicer person (read: FAIL). But most of all, it affirmed that I do not need a structured faith community, full of people I love, like, hate or merely tolerate. I don’t need the drama. I don’t want to have to watch my back constantly. I don’t want to have to mend fences on Sunday as well as the rest of the week. I don’t need a structured faith community to know what is right, to feel like I belong, or to find friends. If I were to be spiritual, it would be limited to a private endeavor of meditation. I strive to be a good person and show kindness, compassion and generosity whenever I can. Isn’t this one’s religion? 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator TrueFreedom Posted May 27, 2012 Moderator Share Posted May 27, 2012 We certainly haven't missed the church experience, though it would be nice to attend a gathering of like-minded people and meet new friends... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackpudd1n Posted May 27, 2012 Share Posted May 27, 2012 I don't miss church. And I really don't like schedules. It's enough having to schedule your weeks without scheduling your weekends, too. The problem with any group is that there will always be bad eggs among the crowd. Like my dad's motorbike club. It's a social riding club for people over the age of forty, but anytime anyone starts talking about how much better they are than other groups, dad reminds the person that in any large group you will have the good and the bad, and guarantees that they probably have members who use drugs, sell drugs, molest kds, and bash their wives or other people. I can't remember if there are 10,000 or 30,000 members nationally, but to think that a group that size would only consist of good, law-abiding, nice people is ludicrous. So I can't say I'm really surprised, Positivist. But I find a coffee shop to be a good place to find some community, if you go there regularly. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted May 27, 2012 Share Posted May 27, 2012 Whether to appease the fundy-in-laws or to find a place of community (that I realize now I don’t need), in a weakened emotional state after a rough day I thought I’d look into a local church. I’ve heard a few folks here talk about the Unitarian / Universalist church and so I thought I’d look it up online. They certainly don’t seem to nickel and dime each other on minutiae of doctrine or Biblical TruthTM, but rather it’s a community who believes: The inherent worth and dignity of every person Justice, equity and compassion in human relations Acceptance of one another and encouragement to spiritual growth in our congregations A free and responsible search for truth and meaning The right of conscience and the use of the democratic process within our congregations and in society at large The goal of world community with peace, liberty, and justice for all Respect for the interdependent web of all existence of which we are a part. Seems cool, right? And they have various speakers so pastoral power is distributed to lay leaders. Whatever, I could live with that. So, I looked further into the website, and they had a roster of members who were coordinating individual services and who the main speaker was. I was shocked to discover that I knew several of these people! I live in a small community (<100,000) and the ‘congregation’ is 10-20 people. Of these: One of them is a lunatic (and I mean this in the psychiatric sense) who is into woo and wicca; she has a grade 9 education and tends to go into trances midconversation. One of them is a neo-hippy who I actually really, really admire and respect because he is true to his convictions. One of them is from the neighbouring community I worked in for five years. She made my life a living hell for all of those five years, through no fault of mine and despite the numerous olive branches I extended. Her cruelty finally drove me to resign, after her last shitstorm that caused me to question my very purpose and my career. (I gave, and I gave, and I gave; I fucking bled for this community, and it just takes one hateful bitch to be the cancer cell that finally brings you down.) I was surprised to see the range of individuals who attend this faith community, and fascinated that the Mean Bitch is clearly not in this community for the purpose of becoming a nicer person (read: FAIL). But most of all, it affirmed that I do not need a structured faith community, full of people I love, like, hate or merely tolerate. I don’t need the drama. I don’t want to have to watch my back constantly. I don’t want to have to mend fences on Sunday as well as the rest of the week. I don’t need a structured faith community to know what is right, to feel like I belong, or to find friends. If I were to be spiritual, it would be limited to a private endeavor of meditation. I strive to be a good person and show kindness, compassion and generosity whenever I can. Isn’t this one’s religion? Better to know ahead of time the wack jobs you might meet at church than slowly discover that new people you've met at church are wack jobs. lol. Unfortunately, I doubt I would know anyone at ours and have to find out the hard way about their craziness. The problem with church is other people want you to believe what they believe and I have no use for that anymore. The only useful aspect for any church is socialization but you can get that at an Atheist meetup or a family dinner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eugene39 Posted May 27, 2012 Share Posted May 27, 2012 I don’t need a structured faith community to know what is right, to feel like I belong, or to find friends. If I were to be spiritual, it would be limited to a private endeavor of meditation. I strive to be a good person and show kindness, compassion and generosity whenever I can. Isn’t this one’s religion? IMO, this ^ ^ ^ is true religion. If there is a decent God, It would be happy with that. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoneTarus Posted May 27, 2012 Share Posted May 27, 2012 Sound's a lot like my local UU meeting. I've only just come back from my second one so far. but it truly is as diverse and open as you say it is. Thankfully I don't know any toxic people from my life that are a part of it. As far as I can tell aside from those 7 principles its all about asking your own questions and figuring out your own path. and sharing that with others. I don't know if I will continue going or not but it has been rather interesting so far. my group has a lot of ex-christians in it that have stories similar to mine. I kind of see it as a real life version of the ex-c spirituality forum. as far as I know there are no genuine theists in my group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted May 27, 2012 Share Posted May 27, 2012 I don't miss church. And I really don't like schedules. It's enough having to schedule your weeks without scheduling your weekends, too. The problem with any group is that there will always be bad eggs among the crowd. Like my dad's motorbike club. It's a social riding club for people over the age of forty, but anytime anyone starts talking about how much better they are than other groups, dad reminds the person that in any large group you will have the good and the bad, and guarantees that they probably have members who use drugs, sell drugs, molest kds, and bash their wives or other people. I can't remember if there are 10,000 or 30,000 members nationally, but to think that a group that size would only consist of good, law-abiding, nice people is ludicrous. So I can't say I'm really surprised, Positivist. But I find a coffee shop to be a good place to find some community, if you go there regularly. I agree. The problem with clubs is you slowly discover the diversity and begin to dislike certain morons. A friend used to talk to a group of local people on his ham radio. Then they would go to the coffee shop to talk in person. Pretty soon it was a club with meetings and officers and dues. Then some people became irritated at the way it was run. Then after a few years the whole thing was disbanded. I think any social meetup that becomes an 'official' organization is going to experience schism. Why not just leave things as the friendly meetup at the coffee shop? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackpudd1n Posted May 27, 2012 Share Posted May 27, 2012 I don't miss church. And I really don't like schedules. It's enough having to schedule your weeks without scheduling your weekends, too. The problem with any group is that there will always be bad eggs among the crowd. Like my dad's motorbike club. It's a social riding club for people over the age of forty, but anytime anyone starts talking about how much better they are than other groups, dad reminds the person that in any large group you will have the good and the bad, and guarantees that they probably have members who use drugs, sell drugs, molest kds, and bash their wives or other people. I can't remember if there are 10,000 or 30,000 members nationally, but to think that a group that size would only consist of good, law-abiding, nice people is ludicrous. So I can't say I'm really surprised, Positivist. But I find a coffee shop to be a good place to find some community, if you go there regularly. I agree. The problem with clubs is you slowly discover the diversity and begin to dislike certain morons. A friend used to talk to a group of local people on his ham radio. Then they would go to the coffee shop to talk in person. Pretty soon it was a club with meetings and officers and dues. Then some people became irritated at the way it was run. Then after a few years the whole thing was disbanded. I think any social meetup that becomes an 'official' organization is going to experience schism. Why not just leave things as the friendly meetup at the coffee shop? Yeah, my dad's too apathetic to become a dictator, and he's the president of the local branch lol. I'm a bit of a loner, myself- too much of a goat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
par4dcourse Posted May 27, 2012 Share Posted May 27, 2012 Me in a church? It would cause a rip in the fabric of reality. I was sitting with mom on her front porch today. Across the street in the mini strip mall, there was a church (I think it's mandatory here) with 5 cars in the parking lot, one of which was the preacher's. The narcissistic bastard had to broadcast himself to the world via outdoor speakers. The sound of it make me physically ill, and I cut my visit short. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator buffettphan Posted May 27, 2012 Super Moderator Share Posted May 27, 2012 I don't need the drama. That pretty much sums it up for me! Drama queens/kings and their (mostly self-induced) drama make me sick. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcdaddy Posted May 27, 2012 Share Posted May 27, 2012 I don't need the drama. That pretty much sums it up for me! Drama queens/kings and their (mostly self-induced) drama make me sick. As someone famous said, "save it fo' yo momma". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator buffettphan Posted May 27, 2012 Super Moderator Share Posted May 27, 2012 I don't need the drama. That pretty much sums it up for me! Drama queens/kings and their (mostly self-induced) drama make me sick. As someone famous said, "save it fo' yo momma". Yeah, people working through real issues is one thing -- in any way they need to do it -- venting, ranting, raging, crying, discussing, etc. Creating their own petty little dramas (which are mostly in their own minds!) then ranting and raging on about them, is another. That's the typical modus operandi of church-attending christians I know. They can "save it fo' you momma" cause they won't find me in church to listen to their BS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deva Posted May 27, 2012 Share Posted May 27, 2012 Sound's a lot like my local UU meeting. I've only just come back from my second one so far. but it truly is as diverse and open as you say it is. Thankfully I don't know any toxic people from my life that are a part of it. As far as I can tell aside from those 7 principles its all about asking your own questions and figuring out your own path. and sharing that with others. I don't know if I will continue going or not but it has been rather interesting so far. my group has a lot of ex-christians in it that have stories similar to mine. I kind of see it as a real life version of the ex-c spirituality forum. as far as I know there are no genuine theists in my group. I attended a UU church a couple of years. I think that different UU congregations differ quite a bit. The one I was at emphasized social action and they were for the most part very politically liberal. I was unable to connect deeply with that part of it as I don't really have an activist -type personality. They were also just as bad as Christians at trying to get your money. I did not leave because I had a problem with the people there. I am sure other UU Churches are different. Yes, they are like a real life version of the Ex-C spirituality forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Positivist Posted May 28, 2012 Author Share Posted May 28, 2012 Thank you for sharing in my musing. Well, I certainly will lay off the church notion for a loooooooooong time, if not indefinitely. I really don't need to throw myself into such an environment. Life is too short to hang out with people you can't stand (and who won't accept olive branches) and besides, I'm an introvert, and it's bloody painful to have to be all social with people who aren't close friends. Meh. I'll get my fix of humanity over good food and good wine with good friends. I will weep with those who weep, I will dance in the moonlight, I will participate in the neighbour's drum circles, and I will live out my life mission through acts of compassion and activism. And BTW, for the first time in my life, I don't hate Sundays. Why the hell would I wreck that????? Fuck church. I'm done! Thanks friends for the ongoing support in this journey of deconversion. Love you all! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marmot Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 I don't blame you for thinking about it, Positivist. I have occasionally considered it as well. I hated the actual service but I always enjoyed the chance to chat it up with friends and meet new people. There was only one year of my life that I ever actually looked forward to the sermons...and I think I was trying to brainwash myself then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Positivist Posted May 28, 2012 Author Share Posted May 28, 2012 I don't blame you for thinking about it, Positivist. I have occasionally considered it as well. I hated the actual service but I always enjoyed the chance to chat it up with friends and meet new people. There was only one year of my life that I ever actually looked forward to the sermons...and I think I was trying to brainwash myself then. I hear you. The thing with the UU church is it's certainly not about brainwashing....one week the speaker is on Wicca and the next it's on Unitarian hymnology (an academic lecture). One must wonder why frequent attendance at any fundagelical church is so important, if not for brainwashing and trying to convince ourselves that the earth is, in fact, flat. Nope, I guess I'm not missing any of it, then! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoftIce Posted May 29, 2012 Share Posted May 29, 2012 I think many UU and Unity churches have different styles and such. The Unity church I go to fits me pretty well. I might have some issues with beliefs, but I have a lot of great friends that I've made there, and everybody is really laid back. I've met people through my unity church that converted to humanistic judaism from christianity, as well as others that are agnostic, and a few that are wiccan. I still love the idea of magic of whatever, so I fit right in. Not all of these guys go to my church, but they are friends with people that do, so I met them through the grapevine. I like having diversity with my friends in general I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Positivist Posted May 29, 2012 Author Share Posted May 29, 2012 I think many UU and Unity churches have different styles and such. The Unity church I go to fits me pretty well. I might have some issues with beliefs, but I have a lot of great friends that I've made there, and everybody is really laid back. I've met people through my unity church that converted to humanistic judaism from christianity, as well as others that are agnostic, and a few that are wiccan. I still love the idea of magic of whatever, so I fit right in. Not all of these guys go to my church, but they are friends with people that do, so I met them through the grapevine. I like having diversity with my friends in general I guess. That type of situation definitely sounds optimal, SoftIce: being able to be who you are around people of diverse mindsets and belief systems, on a foundation of respect. I too have a diversity of friends--ranging from atheist to fundy, LDS, and New Age Shopping Cart (little of this, little of that). I am proud of my personal growth that whereas as a fundy I only had close fundy friends, now my best friends are: an atheist, a fundy, an agnostic, and a Buddhist. Nice! Although I must admit, it makes our big annual parties quite interesting (to which all of our friends and acquaintances are invited) and half the people will be asking everyone "Oh, what church do you go to?" while the other half is asking, "What's your sign?" and we have uptight fundies mixing with neo-hippies and lesbians. Gawd. I love my life! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kruszer Posted May 29, 2012 Share Posted May 29, 2012 I miss having a place to meet decent family-minded men who weren't just interested in getting into bed with me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrailBlazer Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 I went to a UU for a bit in Philly. When I moved back home I went back to my old church, but it wasn't the same and I found myself longing to be back in a UU for nothing more than the intellectual conversation and contact with like-minded individuals. The people there were quite tolerant. I met a few wack-jobs, (but I'm in psychology so I don't mind that) a few gossipers, a few homosexuals scarred from homophobia... but I also met several ex-rabbis, ex-priests, ex-christians, ex-jews- all highly educated in religion and yearning for something more in spirituality to fulfill their intellectual cravings; I stuck with these people and was able to learn quite a lot from them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Positivist Posted May 31, 2012 Author Share Posted May 31, 2012 I went to a UU for a bit in Philly. When I moved back home I went back to my old church, but it wasn't the same and I found myself longing to be back in a UU for nothing more than the intellectual conversation and contact with like-minded individuals. The people there were quite tolerant. I met a few wack-jobs, (but I'm in psychology so I don't mind that) a few gossipers, a few homosexuals scarred from homophobia... but I also met several ex-rabbis, ex-priests, ex-christians, ex-jews- all highly educated in religion and yearning for something more in spirituality to fulfill their intellectual cravings; I stuck with these people and was able to learn quite a lot from them. That's exactly what I was hoping to find at a UU! I find Ex-C dot net so cool, I thought maybe a UU church would be like this site but IRL... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoneTarus Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 I went to a UU for a bit in Philly. When I moved back home I went back to my old church, but it wasn't the same and I found myself longing to be back in a UU for nothing more than the intellectual conversation and contact with like-minded individuals. The people there were quite tolerant. I met a few wack-jobs, (but I'm in psychology so I don't mind that) a few gossipers, a few homosexuals scarred from homophobia... but I also met several ex-rabbis, ex-priests, ex-christians, ex-jews- all highly educated in religion and yearning for something more in spirituality to fulfill their intellectual cravings; I stuck with these people and was able to learn quite a lot from them. That's exactly what I was hoping to find at a UU! I find Ex-C dot net so cool, I thought maybe a UU church would be like this site but IRL... that's basically what I found locally. although most of the people there are quite a lot older than me. it's still interesting. no idea if i will continue to go over the long term. but for the moment it's not a bad way to spend some time twice a month. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lilcoppertop Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 So I can't say I'm really surprised, Positivist. But I find a coffee shop to be a good place to find some community, if you go there regularly. Or work there! I'm new in town and of course don't have church now as an option for meeting people. Well, I guess I do, but I'm not going because those just are not the kind of people I really want to be hanging out with. The cafe I work at has a number of community groups that meet there both officially and more informal and impromptu. It's awesome! I get to eavesdrop...and sometimes throw in a comment or two if they're open to it and I know enough people. =D 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lilcoppertop Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 Meh. I'll get my fix of humanity over good food and good wine with good friends. I will weep with those who weep, I will dance in the moonlight, I will participate in the neighbour's drum circles, and I will live out my life mission through acts of compassion and activism. AMEN! Actually, I quite like how you put that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwc Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 Whether to appease the fundy-in-laws or to find a place of community (that I realize now I don’t need), in a weakened emotional state after a rough day I thought I’d look into a local church. I’ve heard a few folks here talk about the Unitarian / Universalist church and so I thought I’d look it up online. They certainly don’t seem to nickel and dime each other on minutiae of doctrine or Biblical TruthTM, but rather it’s a community who believes: The inherent worth and dignity of every person Justice, equity and compassion in human relations Acceptance of one another and encouragement to spiritual growth in our congregations A free and responsible search for truth and meaning The right of conscience and the use of the democratic process within our congregations and in society at large The goal of world community with peace, liberty, and justice for all Respect for the interdependent web of all existence of which we are a part. Seems cool, right? It does seem cool. All the churches I know, no matter the type, usually just have something similar, like: We promise not to brainwash you.* We love everyone.+ Walk-ins welcome.^ *"promise not to brainwash" is in no way an actual promise. We will attempt to brainwash you. +any "love" experienced is purely coincidental. "Everyone" are those approved by us and may not include everyone. ^Give us your money. mwc 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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