Guest Xtech Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 Of course I am asking this on an ex-christian forum, but can you remember for yourself, or can you answer for how others you know seem to feel? I ask because 1) there have been studies (and like many studies, they are not perfect) that suggest that 'religious' people are happier than non-religious people and 2) some amount of self-delusion may make people happy. This is a big discussion, of source, but in general, an optimistic bias is both a happier place to live, and a bit off from reality. What's your experience with happiness? And is happiness the paramount good - or is truth? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marmot Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 Luke Galen, of Reasonable Doubts (and Grand Valley State University) did a study addressing this question. Previous research lumped all people with "low religiosity" together (and they were less happy than highly religious people). He basically created a new category -- for people that are low/not religious but are connected to a group that fills some of the social functions of church (CFI Michigan, I believe, was his sample group). What he found was something of a "fish hook effect". The people that were part of a group and felt fairly strongly about their convictions (both highly religious as well as non-religious) tended to be the happiest. People that were somewhere in the middle tended to be the least happy. At least, that is what I recall from his Podcast. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exevolt Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 I would say they typically are because they're insane. Many crazy people are very very happy. I was the opposite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lunaticheathen Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 I consider myself religious, simply for the fact that I do have a religion I believe in - but it's not Abrahamic. I don't like these studies, because generally, they only cover christians, sometimes jews and muslims. I'm none of those. A lot of studies about aspects of "religious people" base it on church attendance, and that's misleading, imo, because there are many ways to be "religious." Personally, I don't think overall happiness has much to do with belief. I know some christians have the "happy mask" and can use denial to say they're happy, but happiness is something so complex - no one aspect of a person determines if they are a happy individual. I'd say there are happy people and cranky/sad people, and religion doesn't necessarily have much to do with it, most of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zephie Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 Overall I am happier without Christianity although I am looking at various forms of paganism. What made me unhappy was the mask I had to wear as a Christian and the various rules/regulations. I think that in all honesty, those studies are not reliable simply because a Christian has been told that the only way to be happy is through Christ. Now if they did a test of happiness like who is content etc, and the people who seemed most happy marked a religious preference that it could be said. However, they would also need to factor in other things like social situation (religion usually provides a social background and people for the most part are social), job satisfaction, income, education, mental state, etc would also be a factor in happiness as well. Of course I haven't read this study so I wouldn't know what all they included to factor things in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will02 Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 I was miserable as a christian. I tried to live up to the standard, but I kept failing miserably. Of course they say that "all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of gawd" or some such nonsense, but if that's the case, why even bother trying to live up to the standard after you become a christian? Of course, the whole point of that is to create a negative feedback loop in someone and wear them down emotionally so the church will be able to control them. More than that though, I felt trapped, like I was only living that way because I had to and it is what I had always done. Most people would ask why I simply didn't leave, but that's what brainwashing can do to you... it can make you defend the very people who torture you. I was only able to wake up after I saw that all the bible's promises are lies and I was getting nothing out of the deal. After I got out, I felt free for the first time in my life. For too long I had suppressed parts of myself to try and live up to stupid bronze age morality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voice Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 I was more manic than happy. Had myself convinced I was happy. Happiness is relative. For some it's religion, for some partnership (love, marriage, etc.), for some money, for some... It's all relative. Within these, religion, love, money, etc.) are those who are happy and those who aren't. The numbers balance out. No, religious people are not happier than non-religious people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freeasabird Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 Porn is so much better when you realize that no one is actually watching you. That is unless you like being watched. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 Of course I am asking this on an ex-christian forum, but can you remember for yourself, or can you answer for how others you know seem to feel? I ask because 1) there have been studies (and like many studies, they are not perfect) that suggest that 'religious' people are happier than non-religious people and 2) some amount of self-delusion may make people happy. This is a big discussion, of source, but in general, an optimistic bias is both a happier place to live, and a bit off from reality. What's your experience with happiness? And is happiness the paramount good - or is truth? A christian is self-deluded into a state of happiness because he knows he will be in paradise when he dies. An ex-christian might be self-deluded into a state of happiness because he knows there is no hell to burn in forever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted May 29, 2012 Super Moderator Share Posted May 29, 2012 I guess there's a reason they say that ignorance is bliss. People should get at least something useful out of their religion. Too bad it causes others so much misery. Maybe that explains the results of the study. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackbauer Posted May 29, 2012 Share Posted May 29, 2012 I think it depends on the person and the beliefs. I think religion only appeals to people who are of a certain personality type. All religion tells you that you have to be a certain way to get into Heaven. Some people fit that mold so it's no problem for them, but other people do not so there are going to be at conflict between themselves and their beliefs. For those people, the more preasure there is to "get right with God", the more miserable they'll be. Of course, there are also some beliefs I can't imagine anyone being happy under unless they ignore the bad parts (which some preachers will not allow) or are completely insane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legion Posted May 29, 2012 Share Posted May 29, 2012 Happiness is fine and dandy, but at what cost? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Positivist Posted May 29, 2012 Share Posted May 29, 2012 For me, the constant disappointment in Christianity caused great psychological pain. I am much happier living in the real world, knowing that my life is not part of some big cosmic web of causation that centres on God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaiser01 Posted May 29, 2012 Share Posted May 29, 2012 People who feel secure in their lives will feel more happy over those that dont, religion is a natural security mechanism and so people in it have a higher chance of being happy but it by no means is a argument for religion for this very reason. ignorance is bliss... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoneTarus Posted May 29, 2012 Share Posted May 29, 2012 In my experience most of the people around me were totally miserable. but had to keep putting on an act like they were happy (it was easy to see through) If you don't have "the joy of the lord" in some circiles that means there is something wrong with your faith and we can't have that. I doubt the accuracy of the study because I suspect most religious people will outright lie and say they are happy and their lives are full of fulfillment because they are required to do so by their religion and to admit to themselves that they are, in fact miserable would be harmful to their continued belief. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam5 Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 I think religion gives people some comfort, kinda like a comfort blanket for grown ups. So in a sense it can give some people happiness. Like most here I found that religion did not bring any more happiness than I already had. I need reality in my life not imaginary friends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Xtech Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 Super cool interactive vid about happiness: who do YOU judge to be happy or unhappy? See how values effect our judgments about others' happiness or unhappiness. "Experimental philosophy, called x-phi for short, is a new philosophical movement that supplements the traditional tools of analytic philosophy with the scientific methods of cognitive science. So experimental philosophers actually go out and run systematic experiments aimed at understanding how people ordinarily think about the issues at the foundations of philosophical discussions." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voice Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 Super cool interactive vid about happiness: who do YOU judge to be happy or unhappy? See how values effect our judgments about others' happiness or unhappiness. Experimental philosophy, called x-phi for short, is a new philosophical movement that supplements the traditional tools of analytic philosophy with the scientific methods of cognitive science. So experimental philosophers actually go out and run systematic experiments aimed at understanding how people ordinarily think about the issues at the foundations of philosophical discussions. Well I broke the mould on this one. I like the study. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Xtech Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 Luke Galen, of Reasonable Doubts (and Grand Valley State University) did a study addressing this question. Previous research lumped all people with "low religiosity" together (and they were less happy than highly religious people). He basically created a new category -- for people that are low/not religious but are connected to a group that fills some of the social functions of church (CFI Michigan, I believe, was his sample group). What he found was something of a "fish hook effect". The people that were part of a group and felt fairly strongly about their convictions (both highly religious as well as non-religious) tended to be the happiest. People that were somewhere in the middle tended to be the least happy. At least, that is what I recall from his Podcast. Big fan of RD and remember his study. Makes sense to me. As Galen pointed out, the studies I referred to (by Florida State University - ? IIRC) were self-report which is problematic. However, studying happiness is in itself difficult - how is happiness defined and how can it be measured? Most fascinating is a seventy year long study of happiness by Harvard which was recounted in this article: http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2009/06/what-makes-us-happy/7439/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Xtech Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 Happiness is fine and dandy, but at what cost? And that, indeed, is the question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjessen Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 I was happy when I was young and I believed God was good and loving and kind and everyone was going to heaven. I got older and started seeing all of what the Bible says God is. I got all kinds of untruths and impossibly high standards heaped on me by the Bible and my pastor. I was miserable trying to live up to these standards. I hit bottom when my pastor convinced me I was evil. I couldn't take it and I had a nervous breakdown (helped along by prescription medication I was taking at the time). Life was terrible. I couldn't even look up 'cause God was up there in the sky and I thought he hated me. Then I grew up and started thinking for myself. I started to see how things weren't adding up. How XG was a "do as I say, not as I do" god and that just didn't make sense to me. I saw that real life didn't support the scriptures. I educated myself about the Bible and read other points of view and then I decided finally that the Bible was not the Word of God like I had been told. Things slowly fell apart after that. I was still miserable, but on the right path. It has taken many years of slow recovery, but today I am so much happier. I found some answers that satisfied me as to who we are and what happens to us when we die. Life adds up now and makes so much more sense. So much confusion and guilt is gone. The only thing is I wish we could feel safe being who we are. Maybe that day will come. I think truth is more important than happiness. For me, the truth has lead to happiness. I don't think that living a lie, which I was doing as a Christian, can lead to happiness. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam5 Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 I think truth is more important than happiness. For me, the truth has lead to happiness. I don't think that living a lie, which I was doing as a Christian, can lead to happiness. Nicely put. Great post, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam5 Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 "then I decided finally that the Bible was not the Word of God like I had been told. Things slowly fell apart after that." That was the turning point for me too. Once you accept the Bible is simply man made, Christianity is no longer a valid belief system. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjessen Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 I think truth is more important than happiness. For me, the truth has lead to happiness. I don't think that living a lie, which I was doing as a Christian, can lead to happiness. Nicely put. Great post, Thanks Adam5! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chikirin Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 I am less happy since deconverting, but "the truth hurts" as they say. It's been just under a year so perhaps this is to be expected. I accept evolution but I hate reading about it. I feel robbed of my ability to feel awe and wonder, that magicalness that I used to get from religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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