Kaiser01 Posted June 3, 2012 Share Posted June 3, 2012 For most of our existence as the human race we have been on a quest to understand and control the reality around us, today we have advanced scientific understanding of the universe but for much of our history it wasn’t so. Today we have discovered that no star ever needed a god to form and neither did a planet, if you look at the progress on the origins of life you would probably find the answer just as we have found it in all other fields. I often hear Christians tout that God not only created the universe but sustains it, but it appears to me that the only God is the physical and chemical laws that govern our universe. They claim that there is much evidence for God but what would a universe with God really look like? What scientific proof would there rally be? Can we even imagine a world where the only conclusion is God? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Babylonian Dream Posted June 3, 2012 Share Posted June 3, 2012 Well... we can start by analyzing what God is like, and what his creations are like. He makes things out of dirt and acts like a human in every other way. Also, he commands things to get done and be created. He's like a CEO of a corporation, except the workers are his voice and his slaves that are angels and other humans. The angels too are humanlike. So I'd say, imagine a universe created by humans. The entire universe would look alot like earth, which it doesn't in the ways that it counts. There are no roads on Ganymede yet, nor on Mars. There are on Earth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted June 3, 2012 Share Posted June 3, 2012 First of all, humans wouldn't have the same biological needs or design as animals. For instance, why do we need to sleep if we're really just spiritual beings with the same nature as God? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Babylonian Dream Posted June 3, 2012 Share Posted June 3, 2012 First of all, humans wouldn't have the same biological needs or design as animals. For instance, why do we need to sleep if we're really just spiritual beings with the same nature as God? The answers are in genesis, God had to rest on the seventh day. He needs rest too. He's just a human. See that's the problem though with it, how can a spiritual being, give rise to a physical universe? How can you bring about a deterministic system from one that is utter chaos, without even probability!?! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrotherJosh Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 If there were a god/s you would think there were inexplicable things that we couldn't explain, like real actual magic, communing with dead, talking animals, sorcerers, demons, angels, shape-shifting etc...basically, all the things in Lord of the Rings The Bible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaiser01 Posted June 4, 2012 Author Share Posted June 4, 2012 If there were a god/s you would think there were inexplicable things that we couldn't explain, like real actual magic, communing with dead, talking animals, sorcerers, demons, angels, shape-shifting etc...basically, all the things in Lord of the Rings The Bible. Thats a good answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wester Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 The Sims 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaiser01 Posted June 4, 2012 Author Share Posted June 4, 2012 The Sims Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwc Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 Every time a black hole opens...that's god using the toilet. mwc 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freeasabird Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 I wrote this a year ago during my deconversion. It's more from a Christian god perspective rather than a deist god, but you'll get the idea. I think I was intending to put it on a Christian apologetics website as a plea for help, but when I got done writing it and re-read it I realized I was too far gone to post it anywhere close to those places. How would the world be different if we knew beyond the shadow of a doubt that there was in fact a god? We as human beings have been arguing and killing each other over our gods for millennia without any concrete physical evidence that there existed even one god. I want you to stop and think for a minute. I’m not asking you to abandon your belief system, but rather to put yourself inside a hypothetical scenario where we live in a world where there is 100% concrete, indisputable evidence that he does exist, and he does the things which the bible say are true to which people attribute to him today. How would our world be different? There would be one true religious text, not dozens. You really could move a mountain from ‘here’ to ‘there’ just by calling upon God. Science would support the Bible rather than unravel it. In the history of man no one would have ever worshiped a ‘false’ god because it would be so painfully obvious which one was correct. Amputees would be healed without the need of medical care. Genuine sorcery would exist. The Holy Spirit would have touched Australian Aborigines, Ancient Incans, Native Americans, and many more non Middle Eastern cultures without the need for proselytizing. Science would date the Earth to about 6,000 years, or if you prefer the Bible would have a different account of creation which would be supported by modern scientific understanding. Modern medicine would not exist. Instead of hospitals you would have prayer centers to go for complete healing. If you didn’t get healed then it would be part of God’s plan. To believe such would not be ridiculed as it is today because healing would happen everywhere, literally in front of your eyes. People with faith as strong (or even stronger) than the faith of Jesus’ disciples would be able to walk on water. Religious leaders would be excited over new science reports which at every turn would help us understand God that much more, rather than pushing him into a corner. Those who pray would in every measurably way be more healthy, successful, and happy than those who don’t. Intelligence and religious belief would have a positive correlation. Homo sapiens would not continue to be born (however rarely) with bona fide tails which would illustrate a guided evolution rather than an unguided one. We would not see 20% of embryonic fertilizations resulting in immediate miscarriage. Science might even identify the exact moment when the soul is infused into a human embryo. There would be no holy wars as there would only be one indisputable truth. There would be genuine pictures and videos of real angels and demons found all over the web and on YouTube. We would not have medical explanations for what was previously attributed to evil spirits and demons. We would not be able to create rainbows with a garden hose in our backyard on sunny days. Leviathan and other mythical creatures of the bible would be known about and documented. It would be easy to distinguish the godly from the godless. There would never have been slavery (or at least there’d be laws against it), since it’s always been wrong. There would never have been stoning (or at least there’d be laws against it), since it’s always been wrong. There would never have been misogyny (or at least there’d be laws against it), since it’s always been wrong. There would be evidence of the one true God being with us from the beginning of our transition from primitive man over 100,000 years ago, rather than arbitrarily coming onto the scene 94,000 years into our humanity. All of mankind could, with a straight face, follow the Bible as the absolute moral code of conduct from the beginning to the end of time without having to explain away and make excuses for two thirds of it. What is written in the bible would be so absolutely profound, utterly absent of any contradictions or evil, and so full of goodness that no rational human being could in their right mind ever say that it was authored by anyone other than the almighty. There would be many fewer distinct species on earth, few enough that could actually fit on Noah’s ark. Secular science would support rational explanations for the story. Naturalistic explanations for the transition from ape to human would not be found. The Gospels would be the largest part of the Bible rather than the smallest, since Jesus came to be the core foundation of Christianity. Most of the Epistles would be unnecessary. Enough about Jesus, what he did, and what he had to say would have been documented that after the resurrection little else would need to be said. As scientific progress improves and we get closer to seeing God, scientists would as whole, become stronger in their faith rather than weaker. The greatest most profound arguments over God would be debating just how truly awesome he is. Research studies would try to put mathematical figures and formulas on the insanely high number of concretely verifiable miracles which get attributed to him. No one would ever question whether they are loved by God or not. His Omni benevolence would literally be omnipresent. We are taught that the one thing God wants from us more than anything else is for us to love him. Now please ask yourself a question, in which world would God earn more love? 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eugene39 Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 Freeasabird - I would vote that up more than once if I could. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam5 Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 Hi kaiser, it could look like this one if God is an impersonal God. An impersonal God gets round the problem of evil and suffering. But is no of course God of the bible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Babylonian Dream Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 You know what the problem with you atheists is? You think too much. That's the response I'd expect to here if you asked the original question to many a believer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freeasabird Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 Freeasabird - I would vote that up more than once if I could. Thank you. I think writing that and one or two other similar things helped fast track my deconversion, because it helped me realize just how far away religion is from reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcdaddy Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 You know what the problem with you atheists is? You think too much. That's the response I'd expect to here if you asked the original question to many a believer. I get that ALL THE TIME on FB re my theological responses and pithy musings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 You know what the problem with you atheists is? You think too much. That's the response I'd expect to here if you asked the original question to many a believer. I get that ALL THE TIME on FB re my theological responses and pithy musings. Trying to destroy their illusion are you? No thinking allowed. lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcdaddy Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 Only encouraging synaptic activity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Babylonian Dream Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 I get that ALL THE TIME on FB re my theological responses and pithy musings. I get that all the time on FB too, and I used to get it all the time at home when I lived with my parents, as well as at church when I went. Not just on the topic of religion. People think that thinking is somehow a bad thing. Or as if its too difficult, and by thinking, you're making things harder than they need to be. When in reality, we're using very very simple logic and reasoning, they're just using none at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akheia Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 The Sims SHENS. I'm way nicer to my Sims than God is to any of his people. I've played since the original Sims 1, and to this date haven't yet felt capable of hurting them, killing them, or even ignoring their needs. I've only had 1 Sim who had the "Evil" trait and it bugged me enough that I changed it later (I just wanted to see what paintings she'd make). I shower them with presents and good things and keep them healthy and whole. I defy any Christian to say their God is anywhere near as active, obvious, and clearly good to them as I am to my Sims. Freeasabird - that was an AMAZING essay. If I still believed, I sure as fuck wouldn't after reading that. It was powerful and perfectly succinct. You've shown that Christians need to ask more questions about just why the world looks like God completely abdicated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Babylonian Dream Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 I've tortured my Sims, by having one locked into a room without a door. I did change it. It was too cruel. Did something similar on minecraft. So I guess I can be bad when its not reality, but I"m still not as cruel and evil as God, not even in a video game. Guess I just don't have it in me to even play that evil, let alone be 1/1,000,000,etc...,000th as evil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaiser01 Posted June 5, 2012 Author Share Posted June 5, 2012 The Sims SHENS. I'm way nicer to my Sims than God is to any of his people. I've played since the original Sims 1, and to this date haven't yet felt capable of hurting them, killing them, or even ignoring their needs. I've only had 1 Sim who had the "Evil" trait and it bugged me enough that I changed it later (I just wanted to see what paintings she'd make). I shower them with presents and good things and keep them healthy and whole. I defy any Christian to say their God is anywhere near as active, obvious, and clearly good to them as I am to my Sims. Freeasabird - that was an AMAZING essay. If I still believed, I sure as fuck wouldn't after reading that. It was powerful and perfectly succinct. You've shown that Christians need to ask more questions about just why the world looks like God completely abdicated. I enjoy killing my Sims... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaiser01 Posted June 5, 2012 Author Share Posted June 5, 2012 I get that ALL THE TIME on FB re my theological responses and pithy musings. I get that all the time on FB too, and I used to get it all the time at home when I lived with my parents, as well as at church when I went. Not just on the topic of religion. People think that thinking is somehow a bad thing. Or as if its too difficult, and by thinking, you're making things harder than they need to be. When in reality, we're using very very simple logic and reasoning, they're just using none at all. This has been thrown at me several times and i was never able to come up with a logical response, i really need to muster one out, i geuss ill throw in a little touch of duchebagery, logic and condencinding tone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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