Can't Enjoy Life

[openpalm45]

Christianity brainwashed me to question everything.

"It this God's will?"

"Will this open up doors to the enemy?"

"Is this glorifying to God?"

 

I dont trust my own judgment. I dont trust my own motives. I can't just enjoy things. I can't do something just because I WANT to do it. It has to be for the right reasons. I can't NOT do something, simply because I don't want to do it.

 

Recently, there was a wedding of an old Christian friend, that I was invited to. I was talking to my sister about how I should go, because of this and that, but it would be weird to be around all my old christian friends and I probably wouldn't enjoy it, and I didnt want to spend the $200 in gas money. But I felt like I should go because its the right thing to do, blah blah blah.

My sister said "Rachel, why can't you just let yourself NOT go, if you dont want to go. You don't need a reason."

I was stunned. "Oh. Wow. Yeah, I guess I could do that."

 

Why do I do this to myself? I dont trust myself. I dont trust my desires or my emotions. They mean nothing. Everything has to have a reason. Everything has to make sense. I can't do something, simply because I want to.

 

I am in a relationship with a wonderful man, and I question it all the time. Why can't I just enjoy him? Thankfully he is unbelievably patient, and he has been with me through my entire deconversion this last year. He lives in France and in a few weeks or months (depending on a few things) I will go there to be with him. Ill be with the man I love, in the country I have always wanted to go to. But I keep asking if its the right thing to do. Of course its the right thing to do! Why can't I just be happy for myself? Why can't I just be happy?

[TrueFreedom]

Questioning is wonderful! Paranoia is terrible! Enjoy your life! Be generous, but don't let guilt control you!

[Blue elephant]

When you were a Christian, you had some criteria by which to judge whether your actions were good or bad.

 

Maybe you need to consciously set up another set of criteria now.

 

The sort of things I am thinking of are those about whether to speak to someone or pass on information.

 

eg. Is it true?

Is it helpful?

Is it kind?

 

What are the things that are important to you now? Find yourself a whiteboard or a journal and write down what is important.

 

Going to live in France sounds great. From what you have said, your man sounds wonderful and supportive. And most importantly - you want to go and live in France. There is time in life to just go and do what you want to do, when you want to do it.

 

The Wiccans say something like 'if it harm no-one, do what you will'. Maybe that is the beginning of a good life standard for you?

[shadesofgray]

I dont trust my own judgment. I dont trust my own motives. I can't just enjoy things. I can't do something just because I WANT to do it. It has to be for the right reasons. I can't NOT do something, simply because I don't want to do it.

Me either. I lived for so long seeing the world through the lens of "spiritual warfare" that I still struggle to make decisions and interpret life based on what's best for me and not what will best advance god's kingdom or whatever. I'm always second-guessing myself, but I've gotten a lot better at forcing myself to make my own decisions without slipping into some bullshit Christian worldview. Ironically, one of the things that helped me on this step happened when I was still a Christian - I was struggling to make a couple of big life decisions several years ago and my mom gave me a book called (I think) Decision Making and the Will of God. From what I remember of it, one of the main arguments was that god doesn't necessarily have a specific will for you for every little detail of your life, but rather a general will for the kind of person you should be - and in the rest he gives us freedom to choose our own paths. This, more than anything, has helped me to break out of the "keep every thought [and decision and everything else] captive to Christ" mindset that I was stuck in my entire childhood. This made it ok for me to begin to think for myself and make my own decisions, and it actually helped start me on my road to deconversion because it delegitimized part of what was keeping me locked in fundamentalism.

 

My advice then would be to keep trying to do what's best for you, as best as you can. In my experience it gets easier over time, but it does take some deliberate practice. And congrats on getting to move to France! That sounds amazing, and that will be a great way to get away from jeezusland. Good luck!

[Guest wester]

Deterministic Newtonian physics suggests that doing X will result in Y.

And now we have come far past that. Einstein and quantum physics changed the picture entirely.

Most people feel comfortable with and live in the Newtonian mindset - probably because it is convenient and feels intuitive.

 

Freud would say you have an overactive superid - is that yours or your mom's mom's voice in your head telling you that you have to have a reason?

 

Qualitative Notions of right and wrong or good and bad are subjectively constructed.

Is your action really the right thing to do or were you taught that it would be right or wrong?

 

I was told that the opposite of love is not hate, but indifference. There are a whole lot of people, social situations, places, "teachings" and things that I could care less about these days and it has done me a world of good.

[Guest Valk0010]

I am for some reason reminded of utilitarianism. Its a nice way to come to decisions that, has that same sort of style, but its centered around the good of yourself and others, not, some despot.

[florduh]

I dont trust my own judgment. I dont trust my own motives.

You should be used to using and trusting your judgment and motives as there was never anyone else performing those tasks. Nothing has changed. There never was a god directing the play. You made it this far using your own resources, don't stop now just because there's no imaginary friend to take the credit/blame for what you do yourself.

[Positivist]

I can relate. I used to go home and pray before I spent 37 cents on a pencil. Gawd. I was paralyzed by wondering what the will of God was for my life. I used to have to search my soul before doing anything, ranging from what I wore, to where I went for a dinner out. Out-fucking-rageous.

 

Pursue your freedom. Live with deliberateness and passion. A wide world awaits. Step into it.

[raoul]

Maybe my 2 cents will make sense? I think it might be also that sub-conscious thing that lurks and whispers "don't enjoy this (or him or her, et. al.) too much because crap is gonna hit the fan".

 

I know that's been my case off and on throughout my life. Christian doctrine only feeds that abnormal psychology with its harping about us dying to self, relying on a god for strength since we're so weak, this world causes all of the bad stuff because of sin, and a million other sick ideas.

 

On my path to deconstructing this crap I decided that even if crap does happen - there's no purpose to it other than crap happens. But the good things in my life far outweigh the bad so I can cope with just about anything. There isn't some epic freaking spiritual battle going on nor is there a specific purpose to my or anyone else's life except for one thing and only one thing - enjoy what you can when you can.

 

Regarding your being hesitant with your partner - if you love him and he loves you then that can take care of pretty much everything that comes your way. I speak from being with the only person I've ever trusted fully for over 45 years. It hasn't been all flowers and running along the sand but in the end it's been the only thing that has kept me sane.

 

I hope this has helped.

[hereticzero]

Part of deconversion is learning to trust your own judgement, learning who you are and being that person! You will do well in France.

[♦ ficino ♦]

 

I am in a relationship with a wonderful man, and I question it all the time. Why can't I just enjoy him? Thankfully he is unbelievably patient, and he has been with me through my entire deconversion this last year. He lives in France and in a few weeks or months (depending on a few things) I will go there to be with him. Ill be with the man I love, in the country I have always wanted to go to. But I keep asking if its the right thing to do. Of course its the right thing to do! Why can't I just be happy for myself? Why can't I just be happy?

 

I was wondering why France, and now I get it. Good reason to go there! Be happy, OP89!

[Kurari]

Happiness, like all emotions, is like a muscle. You can't just "be" happy just like you can't just "have" muscles. They are there, but if you don't use them, they atrophy and become very weak. Likewise, if you use them all the time, they become strong and prevalent, even at rest...Like a body builder is still a strong person, even if s/he's just relaxing and reading a book.

 

So it has gone here with your way of feeling. Your way of thinking is now like a strong muscle while others have weakened as a result.

 

Happiness takes a lot of practice, and you aren't going to feel it much at first. You need to set time aside every day for happiness training.

 

Set some time aside when you're alone and quiet. You can sit and work on a hobby, or you can just sit. Don't read a book or anything that will distract your mind. Think about times when you were really, truly happy. Maybe after a time you got some good news, or won a prize. Try to remember what that felt like.

 

Do this for five minutes. You can do it multiple times a day if you want. If you're sitting and waiting at a doctor's appointment, or at a red light, try to do this.

 

It WILL be a struggle at first, but the more you keep at it, the more it will start taking over.

 

You can do this with other things too, like making decisions. The more you practice, the easier it will become.

[openpalm45]

When you were a Christian, you had some criteria by which to judge whether your actions were good or bad.

 

Maybe you need to consciously set up another set of criteria now.

 

The sort of things I am thinking of are those about whether to speak to someone or pass on information.

 

eg. Is it true?

Is it helpful?

Is it kind?

 

What are the things that are important to you now? Find yourself a whiteboard or a journal and write down what is important.

 

Going to live in France sounds great. From what you have said, your man sounds wonderful and supportive. And most importantly - you want to go and live in France. There is time in life to just go and do what you want to do, when you want to do it.

 

The Wiccans say something like 'if it harm no-one, do what you will'. Maybe that is the beginning of a good life standard for you?

 

This has been incredibly helpful. Thank you, BE.

Deterministic Newtonian physics suggests that doing X will result in Y.

And now we have come far past that. Einstein and quantum physics changed the picture entirely.

Most people feel comfortable with and live in the Newtonian mindset - probably because it is convenient and feels intuitive.

 

Freud would say you have an overactive superid - is that yours or your mom's mom's voice in your head telling you that you have to have a reason?

 

Qualitative Notions of right and wrong or good and bad are subjectively constructed.

Is your action really the right thing to do or were you taught that it would be right or wrong?

 

I was told that the opposite of love is not hate, but indifference. There are a whole lot of people, social situations, places, "teachings" and things that I could care less about these days and it has done me a world of good.

I think you meant super ego? And yes, I think you are right!

Maybe my 2 cents will make sense? I think it might be also that sub-conscious thing that lurks and whispers "don't enjoy this (or him or her, et. al.) too much because crap is gonna hit the fan".

 

I know that's been my case off and on throughout my life. Christian doctrine only feeds that abnormal psychology with its harping about us dying to self, relying on a god for strength since we're so weak, this world causes all of the bad stuff because of sin, and a million other sick ideas.

 

On my path to deconstructing this crap I decided that even if crap does happen - there's no purpose to it other than crap happens. But the good things in my life far outweigh the bad so I can cope with just about anything. There isn't some epic freaking spiritual battle going on nor is there a specific purpose to my or anyone else's life except for one thing and only one thing - enjoy what you can when you can.

 

Regarding your being hesitant with your partner - if you love him and he loves you then that can take care of pretty much everything that comes your way. I speak from being with the only person I've ever trusted fully for over 45 years. It hasn't been all flowers and running along the sand but in the end it's been the only thing that has kept me sane.

 

I hope this has helped.

Yes, it did help. I am already doing better at just accepting that "I want to be with him, and that is enough for me." It doesnt need to be explained. And if crap happens, it happens. At least I did what I wanted to do.

Part of deconversion is learning to trust your own judgement, learning who you are and being that person! You will do well in France.

Thank you heretic!!

I am in a relationship with a wonderful man, and I question it all the time. Why can't I just enjoy him? Thankfully he is unbelievably patient, and he has been with me through my entire deconversion this last year. He lives in France and in a few weeks or months (depending on a few things) I will go there to be with him. Ill be with the man I love, in the country I have always wanted to go to. But I keep asking if its the right thing to do. Of course its the right thing to do! Why can't I just be happy for myself? Why can't I just be happy?

 

I was wondering why France, and now I get it. Good reason to go there! Be happy, OP89!

Well, I actually wanted to go to France before I even met him. He was a happy accident!

[openpalm45]

Happiness, like all emotions, is like a muscle. You can't just "be" happy just like you can't just "have" muscles. They are there, but if you don't use them, they atrophy and become very weak. Likewise, if you use them all the time, they become strong and prevalent, even at rest...Like a body builder is still a strong person, even if s/he's just relaxing and reading a book.

 

So it has gone here with your way of feeling. Your way of thinking is now like a strong muscle while others have weakened as a result.

 

Happiness takes a lot of practice, and you aren't going to feel it much at first. You need to set time aside every day for happiness training.

 

Set some time aside when you're alone and quiet. You can sit and work on a hobby, or you can just sit. Don't read a book or anything that will distract your mind. Think about times when you were really, truly happy. Maybe after a time you got some good news, or won a prize. Try to remember what that felt like.

 

Do this for five minutes. You can do it multiple times a day if you want. If you're sitting and waiting at a doctor's appointment, or at a red light, try to do this.

 

It WILL be a struggle at first, but the more you keep at it, the more it will start taking over.

 

You can do this with other things too, like making decisions. The more you practice, the easier it will become.

Yes, I think you are right. I think the muscle that needs the most worked, is my "muscle" to let myself do things, simply because I want to do them. Like a child. Children dont ask why they enjoy ice cream, or if its the right thing. They just enjoy it! My need to over examine EVERYTHING saps my happiness away. Im working on it, and I am already doing better, thanks to all of your advice

[2Honest]

Some really good advice here. I'm taking some of this for myself!

 

I'm excited for you, OP. You have an amazing future ahead of you - I can see it. You're going to be just fine. It may not feel like it at the moment, but you are at such a good place in your life. You are learning these things in time to affect the course of your life in such positive ways. Adventure awaits!

[mcdaddy]

I can't believe you're leaving the Natural State for that dinky little no name country across the pond. What was it called again?

 

France you say?

 

Oh. WHY ARENT YOU GONE YET?? lol

[openpalm45]

I can't believe you're leaving the Natural State for that dinky little no name country across the pond. What was it called again?

 

France you say?

 

Oh. WHY ARENT YOU GONE YET?? lol

Haha.. Well, I was in a car accident. I have been going to the chiropractor and doing physical therapy and now Im tying up loose ends, finishing all the legal stuff, and will hopefully get a nice chunk of money.

I am SO ready to leave this place. Too many christians. Im surrounded. The French don't really like religion. Sounds like heaven to me!

[openpalm45]

Just wanted to update you guys:

This thread helped me a lot. Thanks for your advice and encouragement everyone. I am doing much better in this regard, in large part to you guys. You're the best.

[mcdaddy]

You rock OP!

[Margee]

Christianity brainwashed me to question everything.

"It this God's will?"

"Will this open up doors to the enemy?"

"Is this glorifying to God?"

 

I dont trust my own judgment. I dont trust my own motives. I can't just enjoy things. I can't do something just because I WANT to do it. It has to be for the right reasons. I can't NOT do something, simply because I don't want to do it.

 

Recently, there was a wedding of an old Christian friend, that I was invited to. I was talking to my sister about how I should go, because of this and that, but it would be weird to be around all my old christian friends and I probably wouldn't enjoy it, and I didnt want to spend the $200 in gas money. But I felt like I should go because its the right thing to do, blah blah blah.

My sister said "Rachel, why can't you just let yourself NOT go, if you dont want to go. You don't need a reason."

I was stunned. "Oh. Wow. Yeah, I guess I could do that."

 

Why do I do this to myself? I dont trust myself. I dont trust my desires or my emotions. They mean nothing. Everything has to have a reason. Everything has to make sense. I can't do something, simply because I want to.

 

I am in a relationship with a wonderful man, and I question it all the time. Why can't I just enjoy him? Thankfully he is unbelievably patient, and he has been with me through my entire deconversion this last year. He lives in France and in a few weeks or months (depending on a few things) I will go there to be with him. Ill be with the man I love, in the country I have always wanted to go to. But I keep asking if its the right thing to do. Of course its the right thing to do! Why can't I just be happy for myself? Why can't I just be happy?

 

OP, I'm going to say the same thing I wrote to Zephie today. You were indoctrinated not to depend on yourself, but god and god alone. We were told that we were as 'filthy rags' and 'born in sin' and that the only thing that could save us was this jesus person. So, most of us spent a good part of our lives doing the exact same thing as you.......depending and waiting on 'another' to give us direction. Then you wonder why after deconversion it's hard to think that you ... and YOU alone are intelligent to enough to make your own decisons now.??

 

OP....every decision we make hon - we are taking a chance... a chance that it will work and a change that it might not work. Take those chances hon and you will find that a few things you plan in your life, won't go the way you wished, but lots will work out in life because you follow your gut, your heart and use your intelligent mind....it will show you what to do!

 

When we make choices in life....I find you must always look at the consequences of those decisions and choices. I always ask myself; ''What is the worst thing that can happen if I choose to go this 'this way' and it dosen't work?''

 

For example....the wedding you are talking about. It is fully your right to say 'no' to this wedding and stay home. Fully your right. But how much approval do you still need from friends and family? Are you prepared that they may talk about you? Can you handle this? How much do you need these people?. These are some of the questions I ask myself before making a final decision about going to 'affairs' that i really don't want to go to. If I think it worth the effort because I love and respect certain people, (at the social event) I may choose to 'put up with it' and go for 'peace sake'..

 

Even right down to why you can't enjoy your wonderful man is because everything is a chance you take....even on a wonderful man. Relationships are a chance you take, so if it;s going real good....just enjoy. You are allowing the fear of the future (of the unknown) scare you. Go to France girl and have fun with this wonderful man. What's the worst thing that can happen? It won't work out..you'll come back home...dust yourself off.... and take another chance!!! So go - and enjoy the present minute and put the future fears up on the shelf for awhile!!

 

Hug for you tonight!

[TrueFreedom]

It's good to hear that things are going well for you, OP. You'll have to keep us up to speed on your European adventure!

 

XXX OOO

TF

[Akheia]

So happy to hear things are working out!

[raoul]

OP, I'm going to say the same thing I wrote to Zephie today. You were indoctrinated not to depend on yourself, but god and god alone. We were told that we were as 'filthy rags' and 'born in sin' and that the only thing that could save us was this jesus person. So, most of us spent a good part of our lives doing the exact same thing as you.......depending and waiting on 'another' to give us direction. Then you wonder why after deconversion it's hard to think that you ... and YOU alone are intelligent to enough to make your own decisons now.??

 

OP....every decision we make hon - we are taking a chance... a chance that it will work and a change that it might not work. Take those chances hon and you will find that a few things you plan in your life, won't go the way you wished, but lots will work out in life because you follow your gut, your heart and use your intelligent mind....it will show you what to do!

 

When we make choices in life....I find you must always look at the consequences of those decisions and choices. I always ask myself; ''What is the worst thing that can happen if I choose to go this 'this way' and it dosen't work?''

 

For example....the wedding you are talking about. It is fully your right to say 'no' to this wedding and stay home. Fully your right. But how much approval do you still need from friends and family? Are you prepared that they may talk about you? Can you handle this? How much do you need these people?. These are some of the questions I ask myself before making a final decision about going to 'affairs' that i really don't want to go to. If I think it worth the effort because I love and respect certain people, (at the social event) I may choose to 'put up with it' and go for 'peace sake'..

 

Even right down to why you can't enjoy your wonderful man is because everything is a chance you take....even on a wonderful man. Relationships are a chance you take, so if it;s going real good....just enjoy. You are allowing the fear of the future (of the unknown) scare you. Go to France girl and have fun with this wonderful man. What's the worst thing that can happen? It won't work out..you'll come back home...dust yourself off.... and take another chance!!! So go - and enjoy the present minute and put the future fears up on the shelf for awhile!!

 

Hug for you tonight!

The more I read your stuff the more I'm convinced you should be a psychological counseller if you're not already one. The words/advice that come from your key board have not only helped the persons you're writing to but they've encouraged me, and I'm sure, many others as well. Example: just the thing about filthy rags, helpless without god, etc. - all point, without a doubt, to the freaking brainwashing I and others underwent without ever realizing we did. But then again, this points back to that other thing you wrote in which you referred to a psychological report which said, among many things, that people who are brainwashed NEVER realize it.

Thank you so very much for being part of this family over here.

r.

[Margee]

OP, I'm going to say the same thing I wrote to Zephie today. You were indoctrinated not to depend on yourself, but god and god alone. We were told that we were as 'filthy rags' and 'born in sin' and that the only thing that could save us was this jesus person. So, most of us spent a good part of our lives doing the exact same thing as you.......depending and waiting on 'another' to give us direction. Then you wonder why after deconversion it's hard to think that you ... and YOU alone are intelligent to enough to make your own decisons now.??

 

OP....every decision we make hon - we are taking a chance... a chance that it will work and a change that it might not work. Take those chances hon and you will find that a few things you plan in your life, won't go the way you wished, but lots will work out in life because you follow your gut, your heart and use your intelligent mind....it will show you what to do!

 

When we make choices in life....I find you must always look at the consequences of those decisions and choices. I always ask myself; ''What is the worst thing that can happen if I choose to go this 'this way' and it dosen't work?''

 

For example....the wedding you are talking about. It is fully your right to say 'no' to this wedding and stay home. Fully your right. But how much approval do you still need from friends and family? Are you prepared that they may talk about you? Can you handle this? How much do you need these people?. These are some of the questions I ask myself before making a final decision about going to 'affairs' that i really don't want to go to. If I think it worth the effort because I love and respect certain people, (at the social event) I may choose to 'put up with it' and go for 'peace sake'..

 

Even right down to why you can't enjoy your wonderful man is because everything is a chance you take....even on a wonderful man. Relationships are a chance you take, so if it;s going real good....just enjoy. You are allowing the fear of the future (of the unknown) scare you. Go to France girl and have fun with this wonderful man. What's the worst thing that can happen? It won't work out..you'll come back home...dust yourself off.... and take another chance!!! So go - and enjoy the present minute and put the future fears up on the shelf for awhile!!

 

Hug for you tonight!

The more I read your stuff the more I'm convinced you should be a psychological counseller if you're not already one. The words/advice that come from your key board have not only helped the persons you're writing to but they've encouraged me, and I'm sure, many others as well. Example: just the thing about filthy rags, helpless without god, etc. - all point, without a doubt, to the freaking brainwashing I and others underwent without ever realizing we did. But then again, this points back to that other thing you wrote in which you referred to a psychological report which said, among many things, that people who are brainwashed NEVER realize it.

Thank you so very much for being part of this family over here.

r.

 

raoul... I have to take a sec to thank you from the bottom of my heart for that wonderful compliment. WOW!

 

You know raoul...the Only reason I am where I am today, is because of Ex-c. I have lived here for a long time now. It is my second home.

 

It was all the members who taught me all this stuff in the last 17 months. I was a total mess when I got here. Look back at some of my desperate posts!! You hang around long enough and you and I and all the rest will open our own 'EX-c Councilling Services' and teach the world how to really live!! Thank you again my friend. It is so wonderful to have you here!!

[Akheia]

We love you Margee