MrsRoper Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 I am reading the book, Plato and a Platypus Walk into a Bar.... They have a chapter on the Philosophy of Religion and I thought this was good: Philosophers agreed long ago that it is fruitless for believers and atheists to argue with each other. This is because they interpret everything differently. In order to argue, there must be common ground, so one of the participants can say, "Aha! If you concede x, they you must concede y!" Atheists and believers never find an x they can agree upon. The argument can never begin, because each sees everything from his own point of view. Now, I think it is possible to find an intellectual believer that you can establish some ground rules with and have a real debate. But I think most of us deal, day to day, with lay people; who truly are unable to have an actual argument. I find most of the arguments I have with believers are in my head anyway, because I am fortunate to not have many TrueBelievers left in my life. And my Mom seems to be abiding by our truce and hasn't harassed me lately. I guess my point is, maybe it is a good boundary to just not engage with people who can't compromise anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stryper Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 walks in expecting a joke...... An Aheist and a Christian walk into a bar. The Atheist gets up and says "that was stupid. I should watch where I'm going". The Christian say "the Devil put the bar in my way.God is testing me". Jesus appears and tells the christian "you should listen to your friend". ON TOPIC: The biggest issue is that many christians cannot see beyond their box. Those of us who have seen both sides can understand that. I can understand where my sister is coming from. It doesn't mean I argee with it. It does get rather funny when she thinks she caught me in something and I completely shut down her point by explaining in detail how my point conceded nothing. So I keep trying to show her that there is another way to see the world. we'll see if it takes. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Positivist Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 Philosophers agreed long ago that it is fruitless for believers and atheists to argue with each other. This is because they interpret everything differently. In order to argue, there must be common ground, so one of the participants can say, "Aha! If you concede x, they you must concede y!" Atheists and believers never find an x they can agree upon. The argument can never begin, because each sees everything from his own point of view. That is so true! This quote is going in my quote file! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted June 19, 2012 Super Moderator Share Posted June 19, 2012 One might as well argue about the moon. "The Magical Book of Everything tells me the moon is made of green cheese." "No, we actually have samples of the moon's surface that our scientists have examined. It's not cheese." "The book says green cheese, so your scientists must be lying to discredit the book." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrsRoper Posted June 19, 2012 Author Share Posted June 19, 2012 walks in expecting a joke...... An Aheist and a Christian walk into a bar. The Atheist gets up and says "that was stupid. I should watch where I'm going". The Christian say "the Devil put the bar in my way.God is testing me". Jesus appears and tells the christian "you should listen to your friend". ON TOPIC: The biggest issue is that many christians cannot see beyond their box. Those of us who have seen both sides can understand that. I can understand where my sister is coming from. It doesn't mean I argee with it. It does get rather funny when she thinks she caught me in something and I completely shut down her point by explaining in detail how my point conceded nothing. So I keep trying to show her that there is another way to see the world. we'll see if it takes. This is exactly the issue I have with my Mom. I understand both sides of the coin, but she still treats me as if I truly don't understand Christianity, or like I am just being rebellious. It really hurts my feelings too. I feel like she should give met the credit of someone who honestly explored Christianity and gave it up for honorable reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 Now, I think it is possible to find an intellectual believer that you can establish some ground rules with and have a real debate. I think the quote points to that it's more than just having some shared ground rules. In a productive debate (as in, it will change people's opinions), there has to be common ground, not just rules, but common ideas that both parties share and agree on. They can have different opinions about many things, but it's only within a very thin area of disagreement between a set of agreements that they can find answers. The quote is stating that a theist and an atheist disagree on pretty much everything when it comes to understanding the world or express how it works, so the gap is too big. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrsRoper Posted June 19, 2012 Author Share Posted June 19, 2012 Now, I think it is possible to find an intellectual believer that you can establish some ground rules with and have a real debate. I think the quote points to that it's more than just having some shared ground rules. In a productive debate (as in, it will change people's opinions), there has to be common ground, not just rules, but common ideas that both parties share and agree on. They can have different opinions about many things, but it's only within a very thin area of disagreement between a set of agreements that they can find answers. The quote is stating that a theist and an atheist disagree on pretty much everything when it comes to understanding the world or express how it works, so the gap is too big. I still think it's possible. There were intellectually honest believers at my seminary. Granted it's the exception to the rule, but not impossible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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