My Family Might Be Deconverting

[2Honest]

I'm sorry it's taken me so long to post about this. I haven't been feeling well for the past several days. But I want to write this before I forget the details, and besides it's a good diversion.

 

First, some background. My parents have been believers since they were young. They were active members (my mom taught women's bible study, dad was a deacon) in the Church of Christ for many years. When I was a teenager they got "spirit filled" and we attended a non-denominational (charismatic) church. They have not consistently gone to church for about 20 years but have openly been believers. My mom is a survivor of sexual abuse and because of that has had many issues over the years with depression and anxiety. She's "self-medicated" with alcohol off and on for the past 12 years or so. Despite this, she's one of the strongest and funniest women I know.

 

My dad has his own issues, but he's a sensitive person with a huge heart. He’s been there for my mom through thick and thin. He is very easy going, but can tend to be close-minded about certain things (especially religion). If things come up that rub him the wrong way, he might make a statement about it but then he clams up…he won’t really dialogue back and forth. He has to go away and mull something over for awhile, he’s very slow to change. In fact he really dislikes change and will avoid conflict at all costs.

 

We were always a pretty close family, but when I was a teenager I began to really pull away from my mom. At that time she had become agoraphobic (afraid to leave the house, or even her recliner at times). I started having my own issues with anxiety at that time. I realized recently that my anxiety was a result of my belief in "spiritual warfare" and also the result of watching god neglect my mom despite how much we prayed as a family. I felt so very helpless during that time of my life. Then as I got older and more serious about my faith and church involvement, I became judgmental of her and less tolerant of her issues.

 

In the past 6 months I've felt so much more open towards my mom and we've had several good conversations. I hadn't told her where I've landed with my faith but had been pretty open. She was really understanding and said she'd gone through a lot of questioning too, but still believed. Last week she called me b/c her and Dad had seen J's status on FB where he called out the people from our former church for ignoring us since we left the church. They wanted to know what had happened (we'd told them a little but not many details).

 

I told her the whole story and also told her where J and I are at "spiritually". I told her in a round about way that we aren't really believers anymore. She was really open and again said she'd been through a lot of questioning herself. She told me before we hung up that there was nothing whatsoever that J or I could ever say or do that would change how she and Dad feel about us – that they support us no matter what. I knew deep down that’s how they’d respond but hearing her say it meant so much to me. I told her how much that meant to me and how much I appreciated them and loved them. I said that we’d met some people online these past few months who have literally lost their families b/c of their loss of belief. So their support was really special to me.

 

Some background on my sister and her husband: My sister has been a believer since she was little and her husband since he was around 20 (he got saved when they were dating). They were only really active in church for short periods of time here and there. My sister is 5 years older than I am. From the time I was around 13 we were really close - best friends. That began to change about10 years ago. We had all (me and J, my parents, my sis and her family, and my bro and his family) moved to Arizona to be part of this church where my uncle was an elder. By the end of our time there our whole family was pretty disconnected. But that’s another story for another day. My relationship w/my sister was never the same after that. We’ve always loved each other and loved being around each other…we just couldn’t get past these walls that were there.

 

So back to the present…when I talked to my mom last week she asked if we could all get together (her and my dad and my sister and her family). I said that would be great and we had them all over last Saturday. (They all live about 45 minutes from us.) We hadn't all been together since Christmas.

 

We weren't planning to talk with them about religious stuff – just wanted to have a good time and see where things went. Well of course my bro-in-law (BIL) and my dad started talking about how evolution is BS and all this stuff. J and I just kept grinning at each other. Finally one of them said something about how there weren’t any contradictions in the Bible and J couldn’t take it anymore. He said something about how there are many contradictions and they wanted to know what he meant. So he talked about the account of the resurrection and a few others.

 

My dad asked if he thought the Bible was put together by people inspired by the Holy Spirit. He said no and explained why. Then off we went…I can’t really remember all that we discussed. They were surprisingly open. My sister said she’d been having doubts for a long time. She said she realized that other than praying at the dinner table they’d been basically living their lives like there was no god. But she was worried about the idea of not ever praying anymore and not having someone "protecting" them. My BIL had just watched part of the movie “Prometheus” and was having some internal questions because of that.

 

My mom said she’d come to a place of deep questioning many times. She said she's always had a really hard time understanding how god could have allowed what happened to her. She’s also dealt with a LOT of guilt for not being able to get herself together and be a “good Christian” for the past 20 years. She was the most open of all of them and I think the most ready to walk away.

 

Dad was harder to read. He seemed somewhat open, but he was pretty quiet through the conversation. I was a little worried about how he was feeling about all of it.

 

J took my parents home (they both have poor eyesight so can’t drive at night). I sat and talked with my sis and BIL. My sister and I had a moment where we both realized that our religious beliefs were actually the cause of our disconnection all this time. She said she realized that her doubts about god were keeping her from talking to me b/c she saw me as this “spiritual guru” person and felt like I wouldn't understand. I told her that I was trying so hard to keep my head in that spiritual place and maintain my beliefs that I didn’t know how to connect w/her (b/c she wasn’t as hard-core as I was). We hugged and cried and expressed our anger at how that bullshit kept us apart. Then we jumped up and down and laughed and acted like goofballs b/c we were so excited to be back together. It was so funny, she stopped for a second and said, "Whoa, I'm only supposed to have this feeling when it's a "god thing"!" I was like, "I know! See!" It was awesome.

 

My BIL has always been pretty anti-gay and we got into a discussion about gay marriage. I tried to help him see all of that from a different perspective (one where the bible is not the moral compass). At one point as we were talking he said something like, “Wow I’ve always been pretty black and white on all my views about stuff but this is all really making me think.” That shocked me.

 

When J got back we all talked more and they continued to be very open. J said he talked w/Mom and Dad a lot on the way to their house. He said they both seemed more hopeful than they’d been in a long time.

 

I was amazed at how much closeness I felt with all of them that day. There’s always been a lot of love between all of us when we're together, but there was a realness and closeness that I don’t think we’ve ever had before. My dad called me the next day and wanted to let me know my mom was ok. He knew I’d be worried about how it all affected her. He also wanted to tell me that they felt more welcomed in our home and into my life than they’d felt in many years. He said it was good for us to talk about those things and that he was open to finding out the truth. He said it was so hard all those years watching mom struggle and praying for her countless times and it not helping…he knew something was wrong.

 

So since Saturday we’ve sent my mom some videos and her and Dad are watching them. She emailed me and said she talked to my sister and that she (sis) and Dad are still saying they believe in Jesus. She was kind of frustrated by that. We explained that this will take time and everyone goes through it their own way…and that even if they land on still believing, that’s ok. At least everything is out in the open and we’re all supportive of one another.

 

So that’s where things stand now. If anything big happens I’ll let ya know!

[TrueFreedom]

That's awesome, ((2H))! Thanks for sharing! Most of us can only hope to get it all out in the open and have it go so well with our families. Hope you feel better.

[openpalm45]

That was such a beautiful story, it brought tears to my eyes.

What a lovely family you have.

Thank you so much for sharing.

[mcdaddy]

Still unsure whether I should be celebrating someone's loss of faith (although it feels good to) but I'm so happy your family has come together. Mine - this would never happen. They'll go to the grave with Lard Jebus. So happy for you tho!

[openpalm45]

Still unsure whether I should be celebrating someone's loss of faith (although it feels good to).

You'll get there. Especially considering the fact that it seems faith wasn't doing their family any good!

[2Honest]

Wow, y'all sure commented fast! You were just sitting and waiting for me to post...staring like zombies at your computer screens, weren't you!? Busted!!!

 

Seriously, though, thanks for the support. I know how fortunate I am to have a family who is so open and loving. Actually I think part of the reason I hesitated to post this is that I know the majority of people here don't have that. The last thing I'd want to do is make that harder for anyone, or to rub it in anyone's face, ya know? But I also realize it does help when we can read the happy stories since there are so many bad ones out there (unfortunately).

 

Well anyway, thank you. Love you guys.

[TrueFreedom]

xxx ooo <3 <3 <3

[openpalm45]

Wow, y'all sure commented fast! You were just sitting and waiting for me to post...staring like zombies at your computer screens, weren't you!? Busted!!!

 

Seriously, though, thanks for the support. I know how fortunate I am to have a family who is so open and loving. Actually I think part of the reason I hesitated to post this is that I know the majority of people here don't have that. The last thing I'd want to do is make that harder for anyone, or to rub it in anyone's face, ya know? But I also realize it does help when we can read the happy stories since there are so many bad ones out there (unfortunately).

 

Well anyway, thank you. Love you guys.

You caught us!

 

It makes me happy to read stories like this. My situation isn't the best, and it's not the worst. But reading about good situations with loving, feeling, open human beings gives me hope. So really thank you for sharing.

I especially loved the part about your sister. Im so glad the relationship was restored. Religion really can be so poisonous and damaging to relationships. After I got back from the christian internship I went to for a year, I was so different. My own sister told her husband "I want my sister back." Its been better since I deconverted, but there is still damage. Of course, now SHE is the christian (although Im not sure to what degree) and she thinks I was just wounded by an overly legalistic branch of xianity, and thats the only reason I deconverted. Which sucks. But maybe she will be more open to my thoughts on religion someday.

You have a beautiful and special family.

We love you too! Thanks for being you, and for giving us hope!

[Peace]

That is so good to hear! I can only imagine how that felt.

 

It reminds me that taking a risk and being open about where we are can make a big difference in someone else's life. I don't know how much longer my mind would have gone in circles if a friend hadn't told me she no longer believed. I needed to know that someone else understood!

 

I hope this is the beginning of better and stronger relationships for you and your family.

[Serendipity Rose]

Wow, y'all sure commented fast! You were just sitting and waiting for me to post...staring like zombies at your computer screens, weren't you!? Busted!!!

 

Seriously, though, thanks for the support. I know how fortunate I am to have a family who is so open and loving. Actually I think part of the reason I hesitated to post this is that I know the majority of people here don't have that. The last thing I'd want to do is make that harder for anyone, or to rub it in anyone's face, ya know? But I also realize it does help when we can read the happy stories since there are so many bad ones out there (unfortunately).

 

Well anyway, thank you. Love you guys.

 

Well, ya, I am a little jealous. Lol.

 

I'm glad you felt you could come here and share that. Maybe it will give comfort to some that hope for just ONE person in their family will begin to understand.

 

Two of my sons have deconverted with me though I can't say any of us were fundies. My oldest de-convert goes to the freethinker meetups with me.

[Positivist]

Wow!!! This is great news, 2H! I'm so happy for you! Authenticity and love are two key ingredients in a family, and yours has both in abundance!

[ToonForever]

I so loved reading this. It made me tear up Religion, esp. Christianity and it's patriarchal cousins, is so terribly divisive. It purports to be more important than your family, your relationships, and your own happiness. It warms my heart to see the open communication and the open hearts in your family.

 

It's amazing how much easier it is to relate when you're just dealing in reality and not conflicting fairy tales. Can't wait to hear more

[lilcoppertop]

This story makes me so happy! Thanks for sharing, 2H. It really is encouraging to hear the happy stories where godlessness leads to healing relationships instead of the other way 'round.

 

I admire your (and everyone else's) courage to come out to family and friends about your deconversion. My parents and siblings all know and are supportive. One sis is still a christian, but it's always been a very personal thing to her and she has never liked talking about it much. Some of my younger siblings (5, 6, and 8 years old) sometimes ask "Did God make beetles?" and other questions like that, but I think everyone else is some form of agnostic. OUTSIDE of my immediate family...I haven't really told anyone. At least, not anyone who has known me for more than a year except a few close friends who I have talked to about things during my deconversion. But I made those friendships during my deconversion and that's how they came to be so close!

 

Like so many here, I have family members in various positions in the church...pastors, teachers, kitchen help for every church function.....and most of my friends are still very religious. God is everything to them. I'm not sure how I would even break it to them.

 

Still, all that aside, I'm so VERY thrilled for you, 2H! Two atheist children and more family on their way!!!!!! You're quite the missionary!

[Thought2Much]

Actually I think part of the reason I hesitated to post this is that I know the majority of people here don't have that. The last thing I'd want to do is make that harder for anyone, or to rub it in anyone's face, ya know? But I also realize it does help when we can read the happy stories since there are so many bad ones out there (unfortunately).

 

I am a little jealous that your family seems to be moving away from Christianity while everyone on my wife's side of the family will probably always be fundagelical whackos, but I still like seeing good news from people here. Please don't stop telling us the good things that are happening with your family.

[stryper]

Still unsure whether I should be celebrating someone's loss of faith (although it feels good to) but I'm so happy your family has come together. Mine - this would never happen. They'll go to the grave with Lard Jebus. So happy for you tho!

 

 

People do change....so you never can tell.

[blackpudd1n]

Still unsure whether I should be celebrating someone's loss of faith (although it feels good to) but I'm so happy your family has come together. Mine - this would never happen. They'll go to the grave with Lard Jebus. So happy for you tho!

 

 

People do change....so you never can tell.

 

This is true... after all, how many of us ever expected to be on this forum right now?!

[Thought2Much]

This is true... after all, how many of us ever expected to be on this forum right now?!

 

So, so true. I mean, people always said they see me as stable and dedicated; I was always a rock while others floundered and flitted emotionally all over the place. Yet, here I am. And here are all of you.

[Adam5]

This forum is the rock. The house built on sand is the 40,000 denoms of xinsanity

[MrsRoper]

Wow, 2H, what a beautiful essay. Thank you so much for sharing this with us. I am so excited for you and your family. I was listening to Jerry DeWitt on the Angry Atheist podcast yesterday (it was really good by the way), and I really think that you and JBlue are a lot like him. You are going to be leaders helping the deconverted, just like you were leaders when you were still Xian. We are all lucky to have you guys as advocates.

 

You are so lucky that your family was open to listening to what you learned. That's one of the most disappointing things about my life, when I returned from seminary very damaged with a broken faith my brother and my mother had ZERO interest in what I learned. To them it's true because it's true. It felt like such a waste to get a degree that calls you a "master" of something, only to have your family think you're a know nothing.

[jblueep]

This is true... after all, how many of us ever expected to be on this forum right now?!

 

So, so true. I mean, people always said they see me as stable and dedicated; I was always a rock while others floundered and flitted emotionally all over the place. Yet, here I am. And here are all of you.

 

T2M, the last Sunday we went to church, we basically just stood/sat there quietly while everyone else did the normal yelling/jumping around. At that point, we knew it was over for sure. After worship, the husband of a sweet couple friend of ours came over, put his hand on my shoulder, and whispered in my ear "You guys are our rock. Thank you for being an example." I didn't know whether to laugh or cry knowing that we were never come back there.

[Thought2Much]

This is true... after all, how many of us ever expected to be on this forum right now?!

 

So, so true. I mean, people always said they see me as stable and dedicated; I was always a rock while others floundered and flitted emotionally all over the place. Yet, here I am. And here are all of you.

 

T2M, the last Sunday we went to church, we basically just stood/sat there quietly while everyone else did the normal yelling/jumping around. At that point, we knew it was over for sure. After worship, the husband of a sweet couple friend of ours came over, put his hand on my shoulder, and whispered in my ear "You guys are our rock. Thank you for being an example." I didn't know whether to laugh or cry knowing that we were never come back there.

 

It's things like this that show me that all of that "seeing things in the spirit" talk is just bullshit. If people could really "see in the spirit," they would know what you were going through without you telling them. They would see that the deconversion had happened. No one saw it in me, except through some really vague hints I dropped at my nephew in the sound booth. No one had a clue that I no longer believed. No one even had a clue that I had doubts. No one saw that your entire family was on the verge of falling away from the faith. That says volumes about Christianity.

[atkegar]

Glad to hear this story. Hope everyone is able to follow through on their doubts, but all in good time.

[2Honest]

This story makes me so happy! Thanks for sharing, 2H. It really is encouraging to hear the happy stories where godlessness leads to healing relationships instead of the other way 'round.

 

I admire your (and everyone else's) courage to come out to family and friends about your deconversion. My parents and siblings all know and are supportive. One sis is still a christian, but it's always been a very personal thing to her and she has never liked talking about it much. Some of my younger siblings (5, 6, and 8 years old) sometimes ask "Did God make beetles?" and other questions like that, but I think everyone else is some form of agnostic. OUTSIDE of my immediate family...I haven't really told anyone. At least, not anyone who has known me for more than a year except a few close friends who I have talked to about things during my deconversion. But I made those friendships during my deconversion and that's how they came to be so close!

 

Like so many here, I have family members in various positions in the church...pastors, teachers, kitchen help for every church function.....and most of my friends are still very religious. God is everything to them. I'm not sure how I would even break it to them.

 

Still, all that aside, I'm so VERY thrilled for you, 2H! Two atheist children and more family on their way!!!!!! You're quite the missionary!

 

Thanks, Copper. Yeah, I think it was a wake-up call for my family - "Wow, so unbelief is making our relationships BETTER!?"

 

I'm really glad you have that with your immediate family. That's so great for you to be able to be so authentic and have family support at a young age. It is really hard dealing with fundie friends, but it sounds like you're making some freethinking friends, too - so that's awesome. Don't feel bad for a minute about not being more open with the fundies. It will all unfold in time as you feel comfortable...and there will probably be some you never feel the need to tell at all. You're gonna have a great life, cutie pie.

[2Honest]

I was listening to Jerry DeWitt on the Angry Atheist podcast yesterday (it was really good by the way), and I really think that you and JBlue are a lot like him. You are going to be leaders helping the deconverted, just like you were leaders when you were still Xian. We are all lucky to have you guys as advocates.

 

Thank you, that's really sweet of you to say. If you are from a charismatic background you will understand this: I feel like you just gave us a WORD!

[2Honest]

This is true... after all, how many of us ever expected to be on this forum right now?!

 

So, so true. I mean, people always said they see me as stable and dedicated; I was always a rock while others floundered and flitted emotionally all over the place. Yet, here I am. And here are all of you.

 

T2M, the last Sunday we went to church, we basically just stood/sat there quietly while everyone else did the normal yelling/jumping around. At that point, we knew it was over for sure. After worship, the husband of a sweet couple friend of ours came over, put his hand on my shoulder, and whispered in my ear "You guys are our rock. Thank you for being an example." I didn't know whether to laugh or cry knowing that we were never come back there.

 

It's things like this that show me that all of that "seeing things in the spirit" talk is just bullshit. If people could really "see in the spirit," they would know what you were going through without you telling them. They would see that the deconversion had happened. No one saw it in me, except through some really vague hints I dropped at my nephew in the sound booth. No one had a clue that I no longer believed. No one even had a clue that I had doubts. No one saw that your entire family was on the verge of falling away from the faith. That says volumes about Christianity.

 

VERY GOOD POINT!