Popular Post inorbit Posted June 28, 2012 Popular Post Share Posted June 28, 2012 As some of you know, I'm still in ministry and still in the closet about my deconversion. I tell part of my story under the "testimonies" category. Anyway, I'm planning on coming semi-clean tomorrow afternoon. Things have been culminating for me lately. The sense of hypocrisy is great, the tensions, etc. I love what I do and am in a role where the others really depend on my skills. I know that from a practical standpoint, they really wouldn't want me to leave. But, there was a meeting this afternoon in which it was mentioned "as a reminder" that general ministry staff rules still applied and that things like "social drinking" were still prohibited. (Drinking alone, or in your own home--with family only--is still okay.) It was sort of a "last straw." I cannot live by the outward, arbitrary rules of a ministry whose doctrines and reasons I don't even believe anymore. I see nothing wrong with "social drinking." And, actually, even their Bible supports social drinking. It is their culture that is against it, or how they want others to see them. Or something. It's like that for much of "cultural Christianity." I just can't play along anymore. It's not just that, obviously. As I said, it was a "last straw." The bigger premise of them assuming I believe and feel a certain way when I certainly don't is another. In their mind, anything I say or do is a representation of their ministry and of God himself. It's like... It's like I'm still playing an ambassador of a nation when secretly I've revoked my citizenship months ago. Anyway, I realized i can't keep "pretending." I also don't want the stigma and "exile" that would come with being branded as no longer a believer. They would look at me different, even though I'm no different. I would be excluded and/or preached at. They would say and do "kind" things with a manipulative purpose (conversion). I have a meeting with my supervisor in ministry tomorrow afternoon. I'm not sure what to say to them yet. Do I come completely clean? Or make some semi-BS excuse about time management or being "burned out" (classic ministry line)? Whatever happens, you guys here and knowing this website and this community even exists is giving me a lot of courage. I don't feel like I'm going into this meeting alone. The support here has been phenomenal. *group hug* My entire path of deconversion began with a desire for honesty and truth. But now I find myself living a life of secrecy, as the "truth" I uncovered wasn't what I was wanting or expecting, nor what would be socially acceptable. I just want to be me, and to be honest with where I'm at and what I believe. Maybe I should do this and fuck the consequences? 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chikirin Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Yeah the being a "bad witness" thing, I read how Rick Warren instructed his followers not to follow certain accounts on Twitter because it would be a bad witness. Well in my eyes it is a 'bad witness' to have to obey some pastor's orders about what you can and can't do. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Good for you! You deserve the life you choose. And clearly this is not going to make you happy. I think what you tell them is really up to how you feel about what they need to know. Personally it's not really any of their business why you have decided to pursue another path in life. And if it were me I would just say that I have chosen to do something else with my life. If they press it, I would clearly state that I have no intention of discussing the matter further. I'm gonna guess that telling them that you no longer believe and why is just gonna get them all amped up about trying to "keep" you in the cult. A nice challenge for them, and they intend to win. Not that they would. You could tell them that god told you to do something else and it's really between you and god, it's a secret for now. But that might make you look crazy. Regardless of how you handle it, I would really suggest as little drama as possible, you will feel better in the end. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator TrueFreedom Posted June 28, 2012 Moderator Share Posted June 28, 2012 Do what will bring you peace, inorbit. We feel for ya. I've been leaving clues all over the place but leaving everything up to interpretation. That's been enough to keep me sane. If I can't shake everybody out of their delusion at least I can make a subversive point once in a while. I enjoy being an iconoclast who can still participate on the fringe of the in-group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeverAgainV Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Good luck! Let us know how it all pans out.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marmot Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Good luck. There have certainly been a few times when I have realized that you only live once (YOLO!) and I have been tempted to come completely clean and blow things sky high. The biggest thing stopping me from doing that is my relationship with my wife -- I think I would have likely told my family and quit my job and explained the truth (or semi-truth) to them. If I were you -- I would probably be vague and tell them that my values have been changing and no longer fit the organization. You can explain what you feel Jesus' true message was (not a cultural thing) and that you can't be in a position of leadership with the convictions you have right now. Just my two cents on the tack I would take. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Positivist Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 I guess it depends how much you need to tell them. Maybe you could say something along the lines of, "I need to take a step back from my position while I sort through my beliefs. It's been a pleasure ministering with this group and I look upon this time with fondness for the relationships I've developed. I feel it best that I step away now." Something like that. Maybe choose 3 key messages and play broken record... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Positivist Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Be strong! Keep us posted! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inorbit Posted June 28, 2012 Author Share Posted June 28, 2012 Thanks, guys! I think tact is definitely the way to go. I have my own internal confusions and conflicts. No sense dragging the whole group into that. I will keep you posted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lunaticheathen Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 My entire path of deconversion began with a desire for honesty and truth. But now I find myself living a life of secrecy, as the "truth" I uncovered wasn't what I was wanting or expecting, nor what would be socially acceptable. I just want to be me, and to be honest with where I'm at and what I believe. Maybe I should do this and fuck the consequences? This stood out for me, especially what I bolded. This is how I have always been. I didn't last in secret. I'm a bad liar, and when my mother confronted me, I said everything I thought and felt, flat out, with no sugar-coating. I picked the "fuck the consequences" path. My mother picked me up by my hair and threw me out of the house. I was 17. But I don't regret it. Not for a second, and I feel far more at peace with myself, being honest. I should also add that my mother has since calmed down, and everyone in my life is either fine with my non-christianity, or is no longer in my life. I am very happy. I doubt anyone in your ministry will assault you (at least I hope not!) if you tell them you don't believe any longer, and I would hope they would applaud your honesty for no longer representing something you don't believe in. Of course, in my experience with christians, none of them appreciated my honesty - they thought it "rebellion." But the most important thing is how you think of yourself. You are the one you will have to live with the longest - your whole life. These people in the ministry, though you obviously care for them, will move on to other stages in their lives, as you will, and you will part ways. In the end, what they think of you means jack shit. What you think of you will stick with you a hell of a lot longer. Be someone you like. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaphod Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 A boss I hated working for once (just once) had some genuinely wise words for me. He said that when people make a tough choice, they have a way of taking the decisions they've made and turning them into the right decisions. We choose our path, plunge headlong into it, and make the best of it in such a way that when we look back it appears that this was the only choice we really could have made. Best of luck, and I look forward to your updates! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post inorbit Posted June 28, 2012 Author Popular Post Share Posted June 28, 2012 It went very well! I simply said that I was giving my two weeks/month notice (my position will be very hard to fill and I know it), and that I would help them find a replacement. My supervisor's first response was to say how much of a blessing I had been to the ministry, how grateful they all were for my service, and that she wished me the best for whatever was in store for me next, offering any help she could during the transition. She then asked, delicately, what the reason was--saying I didn't have to say if I didn't want to or feel like I could--and if there was anything on her end that she could improve upon. I hesitated, faltered, and then rambled for a few moments about how I was in a time in my life when I was doing a lot of soul searching and felt like I needed to step back from ministry. I mentioned how I had been in ministry my entire adult life, out of a sense of reflex, but was at a point of doing a lot of questioning and was no longer sure that was what I really wanted to be doing. I mentioned that in the midst of my questioning and inner turmoil, it didn't feel honest or right to be in ministry, and that being in ministry wasn't giving me the breathing room for this season of questioning. All of that is actually very true. And I was in no way trying to give "half-truths." I just didn't want to give the whole truth, and I told her so. She was super supportive and encouraging, again stressed that I had been a blessing, and that she had a good feeling about whatever was next for me, that she felt this was a positive move on my part, and thought it was good that I followed my convictions. The meeting wrapped up with technical details (finding a replacement I could train over the next month), and of course she prayed for me. It was a very genuine expression of love and support on her part, and I certainly wasn't offended by it. This is the sort of caliber of Christian I've been working with in this particular ministry, which is why sticking with it over the last year of my deconversion process hasn't been all that terribly terrible. Haha... Terribly terrible? Wow, awesome writing skillz. Anyway, I have to repeat this process again this evening, as there is another separate group in this ministry that I also work with. Let's hope that goes just as well. One of my leaders there is "FUNDY FRIEND #1" from this post (LINK). As you'll see in that post, they're capable of reasoning and compassion as well-- though we would obviously come to different conclusions. The other leader from that group is just as awesome of an individual. You know that scene from "Children of Men" where Clive Owen's character and is sitting inside with one of the other female leads and they watch through the window as one of the very "spiritual" characters is doing some sort of ritual out in the front yard? The female lead asks Owen, "Does she look posh to you? Or gawky?" He watches out the window for a moment as the woman in the yard stumbles through her ritual, loses her place, and begins again with increased fervor. He turns back to the female lead and says, "Earnest." That's how I feel about many of my coworkers and friends in ministry: I may disagree with them, but I do not find them to be either suave, or repulsive; the quality I have admired the most in them is that they are sincere. It feels good to be stepping down on such good terms. 12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackpudd1n Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Damn, I'm out of rep points today. I just wanted to say that I'm glad it all went so smoothly for you You sound very relieved Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inorbit Posted June 28, 2012 Author Share Posted June 28, 2012 Thanks! I'm super relieved. I don't know why I doubted the caliber of people I work with here. I guess it was all the horror stories so many of you have shared on this forum. Heh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
openpalm45 Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Glad it went well! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jblueep Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Yay! Good for you. I'm glad it went well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Positivist Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Wow! Talk about a best case scenario! I am so glad to hear it went well. I hope you are forming plans for the next chapter of your life! Cheers--to good changes, courteous farewells, and smooth transitions! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rain Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Good luck with your journey forward ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 So happy it went so well. I have one question, do you think she suspected your actual reason? I am guessing she did by your account of the situation. Still, very happy for you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam5 Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 Thanks! I'm super relieved. I don't know why I doubted the caliber of people I work with here. I guess it was all the horror stories so many of you have shared on this forum. Heh. Glad it went well, without any drama. Maybe God gave you a way out. As you say you can't keep pretending any more. Thats how I think all of us felt at that time. Cheers, Adam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConureDelSol Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 So happy that it went well and best of luck with the next one! Based on what you've said, I don't suspect any problems from them either. I'm in a position myself where I may be able to break away from my job working at a church soon and begin following the path I'm meant to follow. I know what you mean about the guilt or the feeling that it is "wrong" to be in ministry and yet questioning your faith. If you're in ministry, you're supposed to be a mentor of sorts and reinforce the faith of others. You can hardly do that when you're questioning things yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjessen Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 Thanks for sharing your journey with us and I am so pleased for you that the 'best case scenario' occurred. That's fantastic! Good luck now as you move forward. You must be incredibly relieved to have this burden off your shoulders. I know I would feel better in your situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lunaticheathen Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 I'm very glad they were kind to you. I've honestly not really seen that out of christian communities around me, but I'm probably just around a lot of shitty people. Now to create your own life! Enjoy, and bon chance! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigile Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 What are your plans now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaphod Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 I'm so happy things went well. I hope some day you have the opportunity to tell these folks that their positive and affirming reaction spoke well of them through you to a bunch of non-believers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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