Thank God I'm An Atheist! :-)

[noob]

I'm too tired to do this story justice but I just have to get it out before I go to bed tonight. I'll try to summarize.

 

My dad, who has not attended church for my entire life had a stroke on Tuesday. That has caused him to lose strength in his right arm and hand, but even worse the doctors have determined that he has a very weak heart. Right now he is refusing to wear the "life vest" that the cardiologist recommended. My mother also ended up in the hospital this week due to the stress and her own heart condition. They are both home now but they are requiring a lot of support and care.

 

However, the point of this story is that my mother keeps weeping and wailing because she can't stand the thought of my dad going to hell. Today, she and my sister decided to surprise him with a visit from their preacher so he could have a talk with my dad. Thankfully the preacher did not show up but I am stunned that the fireworks that resulted from the announcement that he was coming over did not kill my dad on the spot. It was extremely dramatic with my mother crying and screaming that she wished god would take her now so she wouldn't have to know that my dad was going to burn in hell.

 

She tried to talk to me about it and I calmly told her that I didn't have any problem with her beliefs but that I was confident that she didn't have to worry about my dad's soul. It was a lengthy conversation and I was amazed at my ability to stay calm and explain my point of view. At one point she was telling me that she could not understand how anyone could believe that we just evolved and I laughed and told her that I could not understand how anyone could believe Genesis.

 

I know she won't drop it but hopefully her desire to save my dad's soul won't drive him to another stroke or heart attack.

 

What a day!

[florduh]

[florduh]

Shit, man! I mean fuck!

[Margee]

Noob.........I am sooooo sorry my sweetheart, that both of your parents are sick at the same time like this!! HUGE HUG!

 

How has your parents dealt with the differing opinions about religion for so long? Have they been fairly happy? Has your mom always done this to your dad and if so - how does he normally react?

 

We both know you can't make people change but i know you would want your parents to be at least peaceful. This must be so hard on you? PM me if you want someone to vent to ..... I am hoping at least, for a good report on their health.

[oddbird1963]

That christian sense of ultimate doom makes them feel entitled to screw with anyone, anytime, "In the name of GawwwwDDD!"

[GardenerGal]

I am so sorry to hear about all this - that's a lot going on. How come he is refusing to wear the life vest?

[noob]

I am so thankful I have a place where I can express my dismay over this situation! Margee, my mother has always tried to get my dad to attend church but he has resisted. Since I am his favorite daughter she used to tell me that his salvation was in my hands. And then... drumroll, please... I stopped believing in god. I told her this in January of 2009 and I stopped attending church at that time. At one point today when I was trying to talk to her she said, "You mean you don't believe in the Bible?!?!?!?"

 

Bottom line, I guess she always thought she would be able to sway him before he died and she is totally freaked out that he is going to die without a full immersion baptism.

 

 

[noob]

I am so sorry to hear about all this - that's a lot going on. How come he is refusing to wear the life vest?

 

He tried it last night. It is not really a "vest" but more like a bunch of straps and a battery pack. He tried to get out of bed last night to go to the bathroom and the straps were all wrapped up in his blankets. He is almost blind and could not get himself untangled in time and he pissed himself. Also, he absolutely detested being in the hospital and if his heart failed and the vest shocked him the company that is monitoring would call 911 and he would go right back to the hospital. I think he is prepared to choose death over his other options.

[mcdaddy]

I'd just say "mom, have you ever considered, for one second, that YOU COULD BE WRONG?

 

or

 

"only Satan himself would send a good person like dad to eternal, neverending torture. An all loving god would never do such a petty childish thing".

 

or

 

"DAMN MOM YOUR THEOLOGY IS FUUUUUUUUCKED UP"

[noob]

I'd just say "mom, have you ever considered, for one second, that YOU COULD BE WRONG?

 

or

 

"only Satan himself would send a good person like dad to eternal, neverending torture. An all loving god would never do such a petty childish thing".

 

or

 

"DAMN MOM YOUR THEOLOGY IS FUUUUUUUUCKED UP"

 

I tried a kinder, gentler approach but I was basically saying the same thing!

[TrueFreedom]

What a mess! I'm sorry that this is such a difficult time for all involved. I ((hug)) all of you in your specific direction.

[mcdaddy]

I'd just say "mom, have you ever considered, for one second, that YOU COULD BE WRONG?

 

or

 

"only Satan himself would send a good person like dad to eternal, neverending torture. An all loving god would never do such a petty childish thing".

 

or

 

"DAMN MOM YOUR THEOLOGY IS FUUUUUUUUCKED UP"

 

I tried a kinder, gentler approach but I was basically saying the same thing!

 

You're telling me option number three doesn't fall into the "kill em with kindness" category!?

[hereticzero]

I am always of the opinion the patient is always right when deciding their own treatment or by opting out of treatments. My dad had two major heart attacks and a series of strokes in a day and survived and is still living, though frail. he would not take their bypass surgery. He is 81 and said he did not want to spend the rest of his short life recovering from traumatic surgery. The doctors gave him three years with or without surgery. He has lived almost six years now since his heart attacks and strokes. No one has an experation date--I got that from a cancer commercial--and it is true, though we all do die but not one prayer or screaming doctrines will cause us to live one more day beyond what we can endure and when we will die is anyone's guess. I have never met a Christian who claimed he was being healed by the power of god and actually believed what he was saying because he was taking chemo and radiation at the same time he was praying to god to cure him. If your father does not want to wear his vest, don't push it--my opinion. I would tell your mother that your father may live longer without the stress and heartache of his wife screaming her faith at him and getting him upset too. Love can and will make people live longer than being nagged at every day.

[Vigile]

I'm really sorry Noob. If anything can be learned from your experience, it's that belief in fairy tales does not in fact provide peace for believers against the unknown; just the opposite.

 

We talk here often of red pill/blue pill and fear of removing that peace from our loved ones who are believers. I don't think we should actively go after their faith, but we shouldn't be afraid our own actions and opinions might harm the faith of our loved ones either because it is not the source of comfort to them we might imagine it is.

[TrailBlazer]

Suck. Might I point out the flaw in the idea that xians will one day spend eternity in heaven with only their saved loved ones? If, for instance, your mother went to heaven and your father, *eh-hem, well wouldn't your poor mother just be heartbroken, but how can that be so in heaven? The perfect happy place where there will be no more sorrow and no more tears?

 

DEBUNKED!

 

I do hope your parents get better soon tho noob. {HUGS}

[SusanStoHeli]

What is really twisted, is that from her perspective, she is right - doing anything to save his soul is more important than his life. When you worship a vindictive child of a god who cares more about his ego (being worshipped) than whether a person is good or bad - then you must do these insane things. And thinking that you could be wrong is a sin - you cannot consider it.

 

It's a sick and twisted little trap. I hope your mom can give it up soon.

[buffettphan]

So sorry noob. I hope your parents can live their remaining years in peace.

 

Be sure to take care of yourself during this stressful time. Hugs.

[Deva]

Sorry to hear about the situation, Noob. I think you handled the conversation with your mother very well. I doubt I could have done it if I were in your situation. I don't usually do too well with talking to people who are super emotional.

[noob]

Thank you for all of the kind words and support. I am in total agreement that my dad should be allowed to determine what treatment he will and will not accept.

 

I'm not sure my mom is going to hear anything I say regarding his eternal life. When we were talking about it yesterday and I was trying to explain that a "loving' god would not punish his "children" for eternity she asked if I had a small child and I told them that they shouldn't go in the street, wouldn't I punish them if I saw them in the street? I replied that yes, I would spank their ass but I wouldn't throw them in a BBQ pit and burn them for even a hour, much less eternity.

 

I got up very late today from sheer exhausion and now I must race to get to work. Thanks again for all of the encouragement. I might have to pull from this thread and write mom a long letter. I want to see dad live whatever life he has left surrounded by love and not being treated like he is not acceptable to god. What an abomination that is.

[stryper]

I am so sorry to hear about all this - that's a lot going on. How come he is refusing to wear the life vest?

 

He tried it last night. It is not really a "vest" but more like a bunch of straps and a battery pack. He tried to get out of bed last night to go to the bathroom and the straps were all wrapped up in his blankets. He is almost blind and could not get himself untangled in time and he pissed himself. Also, he absolutely detested being in the hospital and if his heart failed and the vest shocked him the company that is monitoring would call 911 and he would go right back to the hospital. I think he is prepared to choose death over his other options.

 

noob, So sorry to hear about this.

 

Having watched my FIL succumb to liver failure, it's not a fun situation. Sometimes at the end of life the best thing you can do is to allow them the dignity to die where they wish. I doubt you'll be able to but perhaps you can convince your mom to see it as trying to make him comfortable. That this time right now is about him and not her.

 

I could be wrong and usually am, but that's my $1.20

[Birdwatcher]

Hi Noob, just sending hugs your way. Caring for aging parents can be so stressful and heartbreaking. I hope your mom can calm down and just show your dad love and kindness. We're all here for you.

[florduh]

I should mention that Mom has done her job by witnessing to him. Whether Dad believes the tale or not is now in the hands of the Holy Spirit. She can back off from the altar calls and minister to his practical, worldly needs. The rest is in the hands of God.

 

At least that's what her Bible says on the subject. Just using Christianese words like "witnessing" and "minister" in this context makes me puke a little.

[Margee]

I should mention that Mom has done her job by witnessing to him. Whether Dad believes the tale or not is now in the hands of the Holy Spirit. She can back off from the altar calls and minister to his practical, worldly needs. The rest is in the hands of God.

 

At least that's what her Bible says on the subject. Just using Christianese words like "witnessing" and "minister" in this context makes me puke a little.

the thing is.......why would a loving, kind god even put dear old people through this at this age?? To make your mother into a hysterical mess at her age is disgusting. To allow her to worry about such a thing as your dad going to hell is beyond mental abuse from gawd.

 

These dear people cannot see through this!! I sure hope things get better noobie.

[noob]

I had to work all day today but I spoke to my mom a couple of times and things seem to have calmed down a little bit. I have been reading and rereading your reponses and as always, I am simply amazed at the wisdom and the kindness that I find in this group. I know I haven't digested everything due to my emotional exhaustion but I am clearly seeing that the most important thing at this point is to respect my dad's wishes and allow him to live and die the way he chooses. At some point I hope I am able to kindly point out to my mom that a god who would set her up for this type of heartache is not a god to be worshiped.

 

[owen652]

Suck. Might I point out the flaw in the idea that xians will one day spend eternity in heaven with only their saved loved ones? If, for instance, your mother went to heaven and your father, *eh-hem, well wouldn't your poor mother just be heartbroken, but how can that be so in heaven? The perfect happy place where there will be no more sorrow and no more tears?

 

DEBUNKED!

 

 

yes, this. the only way out of this paradox for christians is that god somehow does a memory erasing trick, which only means that god is a completely different form of arsehole. might you point this out to your parents? so sorry to hear of your situation, i'm in a similar one as both my parents have been in hospital recently and it is really difficult to say the least.