Mother Found Out...

[inorbit]

She heard it through the grapevine and now she wants to talk.

 

A brief nutshell on why this is awkward:

1. She is a very devout Christian who raised me as such

2. She had a stroke last year (well, 3 of them, actually) and hasn't been the same since. More child-like, but not in a negative way. Also, more sensitive.

 

Faced with the sudden reality of her mortality, combined with her changed mental and emotional state, and all on top of the fact that she is an evangelical Christian through and through...

 

Well, the super nutshell is that I didn't want this to ever come up, because I knew it would break her heart. In her mind, I've "backslidden" and all that. She sent me a text that she wants to talk and hear me out and will withhold judgment until we get that chance... but that she's "obviously heartbroken."

 

She means well and honestly doesn't mean to be adding guilt, but it certainly complicates things. I don't want her to have all this added worry and stress about my eternal soul to what she already has on her plate (coping with life after 3 strokes).

 

Anyone else been there? What's the most compassionate way to approach this?

[RankStranger]

Well first of all I would find out who told her, and make it clear to them that they need to mind their own goddamn business for HER sake.

 

Beyond that, I would probably just be vague and tell her I don't want to talk about it.

[JoeCoastie]

I assume you have no interest in attacking her faith, but at the same time you need to justify your reasons for believing as you do. Its kind of hard, as it seems like any assertions of your beliefs can be justified as an attack on hers. I'd give her your main reasons for not believing (i.e. lack of evidence, beef with scripture...) Let her know you love her and you're not rebelling, its that you can't believe in god no matter how hard you try.

[inorbit]

I does help that my stance is more agnostic. I've had experiences that I am not willing to discount. I did not leave because of any sort of offense towards "God" or those who claim to act on his behalf. I did not leave due to a struggle with a doctrinal issue (problem of evil, for example). It's purely based on the fact that the Bible does not hold up to scrutiny, period, and there are a LOT of historical "holes." Without that foundation, all I have to go off of is my own experience. I cannot preach that to others. If there is a God, he would be- by very definition- transcendent and we could only know what he would choose to reveal. (And revelation- by very definition- is non-communicable.) For ALL the rest, we each fill in the gaps and probably all get it terribly wrong.

 

I am no longer sure what to make of my experiences, but I can certainly no longer use them as a confirmation bias. Does that make sense? I can also still explain "sound biblical doctrine," but no longer see it as gospel truth (haha... ironic wording). In short, I'm not as "hard-core" as many on this site seem to be (and hearing their stories, they are with due reason!.... again, pun...).

 

Perhaps wrapping up our inevitable (and dreaded) conversation with a bunch of euphemisms, like "leaving it in God's hands to judge" and such. Hopefully that will leave her with whatever hope she needs to hold on to in order to find peace.

 

 

...**EDIT** I shouldn't type this late. Wow. That was not very comprehensible. I think I fixed it.

[Guest wester]

Emotional blackmail, authoritarian control issues, sacrificing family for ideology, and DRAMA.....who could live without the drama, eh? Kind of a form of socially accepted child abuse. Power for the powerless. Sounds like me mum entirely. She suffered it all at the hands of her mum, so why not schluff it off on the kids?

[SusanStoHeli]

I'd go with a bit of the vague, and a bit of the stuff she'll likely agree with - abuses within the church, corruption of translations, religion and politics - and go with the "non-religious" line - presuming your intent here is to go as soft as possible with the news because you don't want to stress her out.

[jdog]

It gets me mad when I read these stories of how parents emotionally blackmail the kids like Wester said.

And I am not being funny or mean but if your mom Is using a phone and sending text messages and worrying about your eternal destiny I think she is doing ok at least mentally considering she has had 3 strokes. I don't know of her physical impairments if any but it seems her mind is working fine to be concerned about your spiritual life and I don't think you should fall for her guilt trip on you of "breaking her heart".

 

I would just tell your mom that you are fine and not to worry about you. You do not have to give her an explanation. If she is heartbroken it is not your responsibility to try and fix it. It is her own thinking that is causing herself grief.

But if you really feel that it will be so much stress for her then tell her it is a personal and you don't want to discuss it and ask her to pray for you. This will give her the impression that you are still open to "god" and are just going through a phase and she can have the satisfaction that she is "doing" Something to help you to come back to the faith.

[midniterider]

I does help that my stance is more agnostic. I've had experiences that I am not willing to discount. I did not leave because of any sort of offense towards "God" or those who claim to act on his behalf. I did not leave due to a struggle with a doctrinal issue (problem of evil, for example). It's purely based on the fact that the Bible does not hold up to scrutiny, period, and there are a LOT of historical "holes." Without that foundation, all I have to go off of is my own experience. I cannot preach that to others. If there is a God, he would be- by very definition- transcendent and we could only know what he would choose to reveal. (And revelation- by very definition- is non-communicable.) For ALL the rest, we each fill in the gaps and probably all get it terribly wrong.

 

I am no longer sure what to make of my experiences, but I can certainly no longer use them as a confirmation bias. Does that make sense? I can also still explain "sound biblical doctrine," but no longer see it as gospel truth (haha... ironic wording). In short, I'm not as "hard-core" as many on this site seem to be (and hearing their stories, they are with due reason!.... again, pun...).

 

Perhaps wrapping up our inevitable (and dreaded) conversation with a bunch of euphemisms, like "leaving it in God's hands to judge" and such. Hopefully that will leave her with whatever hope she needs to hold on to in order to find peace.

 

 

...**EDIT** I shouldn't type this late. Wow. That was not very comprehensible. I think I fixed it.

 

Why dont you tell her what you said here. And later on if you feel like lying to her you can make her feel better by saying that "after our little talk,I feel stronger in my faith..." .... not that your faith has to be xianity ... lol.

 

But still I think the "heartbroken" thing is manipulation and well, someone else called it emotional blackmail which is not-so-passive aggressive behavior. You mention her childlike behavior... and really this is childlike behavior.... treat her as you would a child.

 

In other news, my father in his 80s with Alzheimers disease was yelling about being BORED. My brother said he should go do one of the many activities available at his elderly facilitiy but he DIDNT WANT TO. :-) You can't win with these 3 year old minds. lol.

[Kaiser01]

Yea ive been there, try not to explain why you dont believe anymore as it will greatly inflame the situation. But you will end up doing so probably so just speak calm and make sure you dont yell.

[TrueFreedom]

I may be in the same situation with my mother this week. My plan is to redirect questions back to her while gently bringing up things that she is likely to agree on. The Jesus question is likely to get tricky. "Well, who do you believe that Jesus is, mom? What convinces you of that? Do you believe other things based on those standards?" If I'm not feeling comfortable with the mood or the tone of the conversation I might try to change the subject or suggest that we do something else.

 

I hope that it goes well for you, inorbit!

[mcdaddy]

I may be in the same situation with my mother this week. My plan is to redirect questions back to her while gently bringing up things that she is likely to agree on. The Jesus question is likely to get tricky. "Well, who do you believe that Jesus is, mom? What convinces you of that? Do you believe other things based on those standards?" If I'm not feeling comfortable with the mood or the tone of the conversation I might try to change the subject or suggest that we do something else.

 

I hope that it goes well for you, inorbit!

 

When I talk with mom, an she gets all interrogative, I just say "I said the sinners prayer, you believe OSAS, so there's not much more to talk about".

[Legion]

 

Mother! Mother!

I love you!

But I see little choice

than to

think things through.

Solomon the wise said,

"seek ye understanding"

And mother,

that's what I intend to do.

[TrueFreedom]

 

When I talk with mom, an she gets all interrogative, I just say "I said the sinners prayer, you believe OSAS, so there's not much more to talk about".

 

Unfortunately, the sect that I group up in believes that you can lose your salvation.

[mcdaddy]

 

When I talk with mom, an she gets all interrogative, I just say "I said the sinners prayer, you believe OSAS, so there's not much more to talk about".

 

Unfortunately, the sect that I group up in believes that you can lose your salvation.

 

Well.

 

That fuckin sucks.

 

 

[FeelHappy]

Ah these situations, I remember when my mom still used to call me about these things.

 

I'd leave it as, "I'm struggling to comprehend a loving deity who allowed you to suffer so much, but if he's real then I'm praying that he'll reveal himself to me, until then I'm just trying to understand god. "

 

 

-- Now for my rant --

 

As for the being hateful against god part, oddly I'm moving there now. I didn't leave christianity for any reason other than the bible wasn't true, at the time I still loved Jesus and God, it was hard. But being away from it for many months now, and seeing how manipulative, hateful and anti-spiritual it really is, I get more and more disgusted with it, not the Jesus led christianity (what he actually taught) mind you but how god is used for being greedy, hateful, just all around evil while it gives you a self righteous attitude.

 

My best friend converted last year and now he refuses to talk to his gay brother because he feels by shunning his brother, it will help his brother turn to god, and sadly this type of action is way too common. I hate what christianity does to good people and yet they're deceived into thinking that they're actually more moral than the heathen.

 

-- End rant --

[midniterider]

I may be in the same situation with my mother this week. My plan is to redirect questions back to her while gently bringing up things that she is likely to agree on. The Jesus question is likely to get tricky. "Well, who do you believe that Jesus is, mom? What convinces you of that? Do you believe other things based on those standards?" If I'm not feeling comfortable with the mood or the tone of the conversation I might try to change the subject or suggest that we do something else.

 

I hope that it goes well for you, inorbit!

 

When I talk with mom, an she gets all interrogative, I just say "I said the sinners prayer, you believe OSAS, so there's not much more to talk about".

 

That could be devilish fun....."I prayed to god for faith. He didn't give me any." Boom! Done! God fail!

[TrueFreedom]

I may be in the same situation with my mother this week. My plan is to redirect questions back to her while gently bringing up things that she is likely to agree on. The Jesus question is likely to get tricky. "Well, who do you believe that Jesus is, mom? What convinces you of that? Do you believe other things based on those standards?" If I'm not feeling comfortable with the mood or the tone of the conversation I might try to change the subject or suggest that we do something else.

 

I hope that it goes well for you, inorbit!

 

When I talk with mom, an she gets all interrogative, I just say "I said the sinners prayer, you believe OSAS, so there's not much more to talk about".

 

That could be devilish fun....."I prayed to god for faith. He didn't give me any." Boom! Done! God fail!

 

You weren't persistent enough! If you had persisted, you would still be praying and waiting on the Lord. He will answer in time...

[mcdaddy]

I may be in the same situation with my mother this week. My plan is to redirect questions back to her while gently bringing up things that she is likely to agree on. The Jesus question is likely to get tricky. "Well, who do you believe that Jesus is, mom? What convinces you of that? Do you believe other things based on those standards?" If I'm not feeling comfortable with the mood or the tone of the conversation I might try to change the subject or suggest that we do something else.

 

I hope that it goes well for you, inorbit!

 

When I talk with mom, an she gets all interrogative, I just say "I said the sinners prayer, you believe OSAS, so there's not much more to talk about".

 

That could be devilish fun....."I prayed to god for faith. He didn't give me any." Boom! Done! God fail!

 

That's actually fucking BRILLIANT!

 

I LOVE IT!

 

the old switcheroo

[TrueFreedom]

I may be in the same situation with my mother this week. My plan is to redirect questions back to her while gently bringing up things that she is likely to agree on. The Jesus question is likely to get tricky. "Well, who do you believe that Jesus is, mom? What convinces you of that? Do you believe other things based on those standards?" If I'm not feeling comfortable with the mood or the tone of the conversation I might try to change the subject or suggest that we do something else.

 

I hope that it goes well for you, inorbit!

 

When I talk with mom, an she gets all interrogative, I just say "I said the sinners prayer, you believe OSAS, so there's not much more to talk about".

 

That could be devilish fun....."I prayed to god for faith. He didn't give me any." Boom! Done! God fail!

 

That's actually fucking BRILLIANT!

 

I LOVE IT!

 

the old switcheroo

 

If you didn't fast and pray until you fucking starved to death, I'm not impressed. Faith fail!

 

For anyone currently struggling with this, I must apologize and digress. This is only satire based on past experience.

[inorbit]

Well, it started out good, as I said.

 

Then we had a face-to-face when I went home to visit and it went very, very badly.

 

In her mind, it went great. In my mind, I was backpeddling and lying through my teeth. She was crying and everything. I've been brooding about this for the past few weeks. Then, I watched "Prayers For Bobby" this afternoon, as it was suggested elsewhere on this forum. I couldn't even finish the movie. I got through all but the last 20 minutes. If you've seen the movie, you know that's enough to get the gist of it and see where it was finally concluding.

 

I then wrote the following on my blog. I'll just copy and paste it here. I really need to share this and hear some feedback. I love this group, this community here. Thanks to this site, I know I am not alone in this.

 

 

If you're a writer, you know what I'm feeling right now. It's that brooding, shut-up-in-your-bones feeling. Your mind is stirring with ideas. Your heart overflows... maybe not with a noble theme, but it overflows. You have been chewing on something for a long time. There is some musing that has been deeply troubling you, but had no way out. For a long time you felt lost in your own thoughts and emotions. Those seasons where you are having deep revelation and gaining clarity in one sense, yet still unable to articulate or express clearly what you are beginning to see... Those seasons are so hard as a writer, especially in seasons of turmoil.

 

This has been a season of turmoil.

 

Now there is a shift. After much brooding and wrestling with my own dark thoughts, I have that fire shut in feeling. Something set it off. The final puzzle piece went in, and as it clicked in place, I realized what I had been gazing at. Enough of the picture came into play and now I can describe it. It still will not be clear. It will not be solid. It will not be final. It probably won't be all that eloquent. But it will be off my chest.

 

I just watched "Prayers for Bobby." I watched all but the last 20 minutes. I could see where it was going and it would be a good ending. It was enough to be my muse and now here I sit, ready to spill what has been locked and festering in my mind and heart. There is so much, now that I have found my voice. It ties together, but it doesn't. I'll simply begin. I simply need to say this, all of this. I don't need to say it well.

 

I know how Bobby feels. For that movie, replace homosexuality with unbelief and you have a terrific analogy to my own story. I have been having to lie to my own dear mother. She has, in tears, confronted me on my "walking away from God." That was after only a hint from me about my questioning, and my distancing myself from the church. She has been so very upset. She fears for my immortal soul, and for how I am being led astray into immorality and isolation. On one hand, I appreciate her love and sincerity. On the other, it creates such a chasm. Either I pretend around her and she is at peace, or I am sincere and she is in turmoil. There is no winning. Our closeness is forever lost, our relationship severed. Either I am not genuine and honest with her, or I am not truly accepted by her. This breaks my heart.

 

I weep freely as I write this.

Ironic. Ironic she brings up again and again that I should not be alone. I should be a part of a church body, so that I do not fall away or get any wild ideas in my head. I need strong believers around me who will remind me of "the truth." Irony, irony, irony.

 

As a Christian, in full-time ministry, I faced great loneliness and isolation. The ache for True Love that I feel now, I felt then. I do not mean romantic love. This is not a petty thing. That deep human connection, or what Christians will sometimes call "the god-shaped hole." One of the ministries I served with called that empty feeling, that desperation a blessing. "Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness..."

 

The trouble is their definition of righteousness. Heaven forbid (...) you come to any different conclusions or interpretations. It's not about how you treat others. It's about your doctrine. You should thirst after doctrine and all sorts of other strange twistings. Righteousness is an appearance. And it is religion.

 

I desire to be a good person. I desire to love and be loved. I am a human being. At its core, my moral compass remains the same. In fact, it is strengthened, because it is without strings or chains. There is no carrot on a stick, or gun to my head. I am free.

 

What I am saying is that the loneliness and isolation I feel is not a trademark of "god's disapproval." I felt this way long before my deconversion. On one hand, it is part of being human and being a social creature. On the other hand (same coin), it largely comes from Christians. This is incremental. The closer our relationship, the stronger their reaction. I do not find compassion and listening. I find abrasive defensiveness, and their tone betrays their sense of betrayal. A truly open dialogue cannot happen, because they cannot truly question their faith with an open mind.

 

Today is the "anniversary" of when I was born again. Ironic that today of all days of the year I would have a greater sense of clarity.

 

I mourn the loss of relationships with my loved ones. I mourn the loss of my old sense of identity ("in Christ"). I mourn being able to be genuine with people, without judgment. Irony. So much irony in that last sentence, I don't even know where to begin. Hint: Christian morality has greatly to do with how one is perceived by others.

 

I know now why non-Christians and ex-Christians have animosity towards Christians. It's not "persecution." It's not that they're blinded or their hearts are hardened. No, dear Christian, it's you. Listen to yourself. Step back and see it from their perspective. Show some love. Hold out a hand, not a measuring stick. Offer a shoulder, not a checklist or a cliche.

[Kaiser01]

So many have animosity against Christianity because its so oppresive.

[inorbit]

So many have animosity against Christianity because its so oppresive.

 

That's what I'm saying.

 

 

And back in the closet I have to go.

[Kaiser01]

So many have animosity against Christianity because its so oppresive.

 

That's what I'm saying.

 

 

And back in the closet I have to go.

 

Dont worry one day we will lead a great exodus into the world of religious freedom.

[BendyLine]

Beautifully written *applauds*. I can relate to a lot of that. Your extimony was one of the first I read on this site, and I've always found it inspiring.

 

I believe that Christians are oppressive to non-believers because they have a sick need to feel persecuted, and they need to make us heathens into villains to validate their faith. The truth is that much of the time, they are the oppressors.

[Blue elephant]

If you need to engge in this discussion again, I would think about taking the line "I only practice and follow what I absolutely know to be true" and then start talking about the practice of forgiveness charity etc etc. All those things in the bible that are positive and agreeable.

 

Hopefully the "feel good" of those words will be a subtle topic changer.