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Nonchristians And Porn/addiction


marmot
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If this belongs in a different forum (Science? Sex?) please move it.

 

A (Mormon) friend of mine posted a link to a website, Fight the New Drug. It is a group that is trying to educate about the dangers of addiction to porn. Nowhere on the website to they appeal to religion.

 

I did a little more research and it turns out it was started by four Mormons. Now, not that their faith immediately invalidates their cause, but it did give me pause. The website did not completely pass my smell test so I wanted to hear your input.

 

They claim that porn is an addiction and works the same way on your brain that drugs do. They also warn about the dangers (life spiraling out of control -- lose your job, family etc.).

 

My question -- do you guys think this is a "trojan horse" attempt? The Intelligent Design movement intentionally framed their argument in a vague way without stipulating who a creator could be/how he worked. It seems they are trying to do the same thing -- say that porn is bad without invoking religion. Or do you guys think they have some merit? People who have a background in psychology/neurology I would love to hear what you have to say.

 

My own feelings are a little mixed; I think that porn can certainly become a problem along the lines of something like too much time spent playing videogames, reading fashion magazines websites, and overeating etc. I would say I look at porn every few days and I enjoy it. It actually played a large part in my apostasy, strangely enough. If I could flip a switch and go without it I think I would but I do think it has some benefits for me as well as some costs and some ethical implications.

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Porn addiction is a real thing.

 

It is tied to sex addiction. Whenever you orgasm, your brain releases the highest levels of endorphins you can achieve naturally. When it is done multiple times in a few hours, well it can be quite powerful.

 

however, that said. Like most addictions there is usually an underlying cause. It just gets expressed this way.

 

As one who spent his entire paycheck and had trouble paying the rent on time because he spent it on phone sex operators and magazines (this was 1997or so, so pre-universal internet), i can attest to this.

 

as to the site. It appears to be a typical this is bad for you and here is the information to help you be aware type. I didn't see anything overtly religious.

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Personally, I've seen christians argue that viewing porn at all is "pornography addiction" and pull out the Jeebus and Bible to save you. That's not to say that porn addiction doesn't exist, because the brain is weird, and any activity that is rewarding in some small way can spiral out of control and into an addiction. I just don't think it's as widespread as some churchies want to believe, or that a Playboy is in any way comparable to meth in the life-destroying way.

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Personally, I've seen christians argue that viewing porn at all is "pornography addiction" and pull out the Jeebus and Bible to save you. That's not to say that porn addiction doesn't exist, because the brain is weird, and any activity that is rewarding in some small way can spiral out of control and into an addiction. I just don't think it's as widespread as some churchies want to believe, or that a Playboy is in any way comparable to meth in the life-destroying way.

 

So true.

 

When Christians talk about porn destroying marriages, it can often be a self fulfilling prophecy. I have seen it in my own family. The women won't communicate with her man about his sexual needs. There is no dialogue, she won't even open the door. If a man 'needs it' more than the woman than he's just a sexual deviant and needs to control his urges. The man seeks out to fulfill his biological needs in what he finds to be the least detrimental way. Then it causes a toll on the marriage because he was hiding it. And then she leaves him because of the deception. I think true addiction is overblown, though it does happen. The truth the majority of the time is couples simply need to have better communication over the issue, and as we know that's a two way street.

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Thanks for the thoughts, folks.

Porn addiction is a real thing.

 

It is tied to sex addiction. Whenever you orgasm, your brain releases the highest levels of endorphins you can achieve naturally. When it is done multiple times in a few hours, well it can be quite powerful.

 

however, that said. Like most addictions there is usually an underlying cause. It just gets expressed this way.

 

As one who spent his entire paycheck and had trouble paying the rent on time because he spent it on phone sex operators and magazines (this was 1997or so, so pre-universal internet), i can attest to this.

 

as to the site. It appears to be a typical this is bad for you and here is the information to help you be aware type. I didn't see anything overtly religious.

 

Thanks for the insight. As to the site -- I didn't mean to say that anything was religious, in fact, the opposite. I thought perhaps they were trying to push a cultural message (anti-porn) that has the Christian dogma removed, just like ID. I'm probably just seeing things.

 

Sounds like porn addictions are real. Maybe overblown in the sense that not all porn users are (or will develop into) addicts but still can be a problem.

 

Thanks to the others for your thoughts as well.

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I don't know what the big deal is, I can think of worse things for people to be addicted to: drugs, alcohol, gambling, sex itself, etc.

 

If a person is single and they have the sense enough not to watch it at work then I really don't see what the issue is.

 

Big whup....

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Well on the addiction level it can lead to increasing social isolation, you can risk your job et cetera. There are worse fates for sure but still...

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Thanks for the insight. As to the site -- I didn't mean to say that anything was religious, in fact, the opposite. I thought perhaps they were trying to push a cultural message (anti-porn) that has the Christian dogma removed, just like ID. I'm probably just seeing things.

 

Sounds like porn addictions are real. Maybe overblown in the sense that not all porn users are (or will develop into) addicts but still can be a problem.

 

Thanks to the others for your thoughts as well.

 

most "epidemic addictions" are over blown. They see a rise in the number of kids using Heroin and suddenly Its EEEEVVEERRYYWHEEERREEE looking to snatch your kids like a boogey man.

 

ah the drama.

 

I liken porn to alcohol. Its fine in small amounts. We you get to the point that you are excited to go home and spend the next 4-6 hours wanking....you have a problem.

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If this belongs in a different forum (Science? Sex?) please move it.

 

A (Mormon) friend of mine posted a link to a website, Fight the New Drug. It is a group that is trying to educate about the dangers of addiction to porn. Nowhere on the website to they appeal to religion.

 

I did a little more research and it turns out it was started by four Mormons. Now, not that their faith immediately invalidates their cause, but it did give me pause. The website did not completely pass my smell test so I wanted to hear your input.

 

They claim that porn is an addiction and works the same way on your brain that drugs do. They also warn about the dangers (life spiraling out of control -- lose your job, family etc.).

 

My question -- do you guys think this is a "trojan horse" attempt? The Intelligent Design movement intentionally framed their argument in a vague way without stipulating who a creator could be/how he worked. It seems they are trying to do the same thing -- say that porn is bad without invoking religion. Or do you guys think they have some merit? People who have a background in psychology/neurology I would love to hear what you have to say.

 

My own feelings are a little mixed; I think that porn can certainly become a problem along the lines of something like too much time spent playing videogames, reading fashion magazines websites, and overeating etc. I would say I look at porn every few days and I enjoy it. It actually played a large part in my apostasy, strangely enough. If I could flip a switch and go without it I think I would but I do think it has some benefits for me as well as some costs and some ethical implications.

 

 

This is just religious bullshit. Porn itself is not an addiction, just like alcohol itself is not an addiction, nor is gambling. People can be come addicted to anything. Praying can be an addiction that ruins people's lives. If they have OCD and pray some insane ammount and can't ever get anything do, it's an addiction that's ruining their life. I guess praying is an addiction for everyone, and therefore, no one should pray. You have to ask yourself is porn an addiction for you? Does it negitively affect your life in a major way and do you feel incapable of correcting it without serious help? If not, then don't worry about it. I've been looking at porn for half my life and I'm not addicted. I don't spend hours at a time looking at it every day and never have. If their religion didn't have a problem with porn and their church hadn't decided to cherry pick this sin as one to worry about, they wouldn't.

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Personally, I've seen christians argue that viewing porn at all is "pornography addiction" and pull out the Jeebus and Bible to save you. That's not to say that porn addiction doesn't exist, because the brain is weird, and any activity that is rewarding in some small way can spiral out of control and into an addiction. I just don't think it's as widespread as some churchies want to believe, or that a Playboy is in any way comparable to meth in the life-destroying way.

 

So true.

 

When Christians talk about porn destroying marriages, it can often be a self fulfilling prophecy. I have seen it in my own family. The women won't communicate with her man about his sexual needs. There is no dialogue, she won't even open the door. If a man 'needs it' more than the woman than he's just a sexual deviant and needs to control his urges. The man seeks out to fulfill his biological needs in what he finds to be the least detrimental way. Then it causes a toll on the marriage because he was hiding it. And then she leaves him because of the deception. I think true addiction is overblown, though it does happen. The truth the majority of the time is couples simply need to have better communication over the issue, and as we know that's a two way street.

 

Unfortunately, most women do not understand men and porn, nor do they want to. They think it says something about their own value as a person and sexual being, when it's often completely irrelevant to that. They also want to own a man's mind and have some kind of fantasy that he's only going to think about her in a sexual way, as if that's normal, natural, or even healthy. While porn can cause problems in relationships (as it has before in mine), it doesn't make porn bad, nor does it make it an addiction (not that you're saying otherwise). Just like someone's enjoyment of golf can cause problems in their relationship, but it doesn't make golf bad just because someone might have an irrational fear of their loved one playing golf. Now, if you're always looking at porn instead of having sex with your loved one who you are really attacted to, and you're looking at it during business meetings, I'd say you have an addiction.

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Sure, I think pornography can be addictive. I mean, anything that gives you pleasure is bound to be abused. Unless you're getting yourself in debt, and you're not watching it every chance you get I don't think it's a big deal. For me pornography is merely a tool. When I get horny, I can either fantasize and do my thing or I can get a helping hand with pornography. I don't spend a lot of time relishing in it, it's in and out basically. Generally speaking, the state of being horny is bothersome to me so I avoid getting myself worked up unnecessarily. Dunno if that's the same with other guys or not, but that's the way I treat it. Merely a tool to get me sane again.

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It's my opinion that people with addictive tendencies can become addicted to pretty much anything. It just so happens that some things like opiates, alcohol, porn, internet, tobacco, etc. are more addictive than others.

 

I definitely have some addictive tendencies, and I don't have the will-power to REALLY do anything about it. So I just try to limit my addictions to relatively benign behaviors. In the past I've had addictions of varying degrees (all pretty minor, really) to tobacco, alcohol, marijuana, and porn. Now that I'm getting old and boring, my main addictions are food, work, caffeine, and the internet.

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Anything can be addictive. There are certainly different types of porn; the really degrading semi-violent stuff has been shown in the past to mess with men's heads. But regular porn? I don't see the issue. The Christian crazies have convinced women that it's a problem, and like any healthy appetite that is suppressed, the appetite to see sexy pictures and feel good can easily be turned into something shameful and scary. I see a lot of the anti-porn drive as being fueled by hysteria, the same hysteria that makes women hate their bodies and see anything, even a 2-dimensional picture, as competition for someone's love in a zero-sum game. The church obviously benefits a great deal from such self-loathing on both men's and women's parts, so I don't see anything changing anytime soon except for the worse. They won't be happy till we settle in comfortably with their thought police paradigm.

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Oh please, if it were half as bad as alarmist sites like this claim then there wouldn't be a single functional adult male left in the United States.

 

That being said, yes it can be addictive, but simply using it on occasion is not a problem or indicative of one...just like drugs, video games, fried foods, etc etc etc.

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If a person wants to quit and can't - that's a problem. If a person would rather use porn than have sex with his wife - that's a problem. A few years ago, I was guilty on both counts. Now, it's just a supplement whenever necessary. If my life was perfect, I'd have sex often enough and wouldn't even look at porn at all.

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I think this site is a lot of hyperbole. They make it sound like watching porn is like taking cocaine, and the instance of becoming addicted is very high.

 

I really don't think that it is. I'm with the rest of the folks here. It CAN be addictive, but I think for the most part, it's harmless.

 

It's a nice and positive enhancement to my marriage.

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I think in some cases porn has actually been helpful to secular relationships. When a couple doesn't have the guilt over watching it and decide to watch it for entertainment or for bedroom ideas, that can lead to a healthier relationship.

 

What makes it dangerous is when they begin watching it every waking moment of the day. Even if they don't view it at work, they would be going through some sort of withdrawal at work until they could get home and watch porn, so they really wouldn't be focusing on their work. They begin paying for porn sites with money they don't have, withdraw from society and eventually stop going to work altogether. That's worst case scenario of course and it's really the same situation as with any drug or alcohol addiction.

 

Does that make just looking at porn every now and then "addiction"? Absolutely not. It's just entertainment then.

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My own yardstick of porn addiction would be if you liked the criminal sort of porn like child or bestiality porn, by that point, you've not only ruined your life but also hurt other people and animals by indulging in this sort of sexual imagery. Apart from that, too much consensual porn would be cutting into time with other people so if you are an huge fan of Playboy or Playguy or whatever floats your boat, it's between yourself and your loved ones. I wouldn't condemn your love of porn but it would help if you loved too much the topless shots of women rather than dog penises. Better nude women smiling than children forced to strip.

 

As for anti porn people, what the hell? If you allow movies like Saw movies, you surely can allow Bondage Minxes. Both are fun and trashy entertainment really. Everybody knows that both genres of movies aren't real save for a few bruises and slip ups which are par for the course in producing these movies. Porn is not the orge you make it out to be. Most of the time, in my experience, they are often fluffy softcore or campy movie parodies or thinly veiled political statement or even social commentary or just straight up thrills. These violent and traumatic movies? They are the minority of the pornos. And they are often banned or are already criminal in nature. Not many porn lovers would want to go up and try these movies, simply because lot of human beings know that these movies aren't worth it. So if you wish to ban porn for everybody, then what horrors hides in your minds to do that?

 

So yeah, don't readily diagnose people as having porn addictions, because it depends on the circumstances of a person's life. It's a rather serious thing after all. Honestly, one person's addiction is another person's pleasure. Only the person would know what is best for himself or herself.

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I'm no prude, but I think pornography is addictive. For some distinctly secular perspectives on the subject, I recommend this:

 

http://www.cracked.c...re-are-you.html

(This link goes to a comedy website, but they present a pretty serious picture of porn here.)

 

and this:

 

http://www.yourbrainonporn.com

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Zaphod, I don't think that folks in here claim porn can't possibly be addictive... but porn consumption doesn't equal porn addiction automatically :)

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Zaphod, I don't think that folks in here claim porn can't possibly be addictive... but porn consumption doesn't equal porn addiction automatically smile.png

 

This.

 

Hell, I knew a guy addicted to exercise. He seriously got withdrawls if he didn't get his heart rate up to a certain goal EVERY DAY. It became physical. Addicted to endorphins. No shit.

 

I don't watch porn, but that's because it is so utterly silly to me. Sex is wonderful, I love doing it, but watching it, it instantly because the goofiest thing EVER. That's just me. But I'm weird and I know it.

 

Churchies latch on to the "addiction" angle because it relieves the (mostly) men viewers of responsibility and avoids agreeing with feminist groups who argue it's degrading to women (which I don't agree with, it's the one industry that actually pays women MORE than men). Because we can't be respecting womens, can we?

 

Addiction can happen with porn, but I'd rather crack down on something like meth, or teaching creationism in schools, than less than a percent of dudes who spend all their money on porn and lotion. The first two are far more pernicious.

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Zaphod, I don't think that folks in here claim porn can't possibly be addictive... but porn consumption doesn't equal porn addiction automatically smile.png

 

Totally agree. Consumption and addiction are two different things. And while porn addiction isn't likely to lead to people chewing one another's faces off, I think there is nevertheless growing evidence that its effects reach beyond simply wasted time and money. It's not as destructive as alcohol or meth addiction, but there's growing evidence that porn addiction may be more socially crippling than secularists like me had previously thought.

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