Stamps1962 Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 We just got back from a trip to Washington DC. On our last day we wanted to visit Arlington Cemetary; I'd been there as a single with friends and wanted my son to see it and planned to take a bus tour as I had before. We were staying at a nice hotel near Reagan airport and the night before we planned to go I asked the front desk clerk, a middle aged lady, if we could catch the tour busses for Arlington near where the Metro station unloads. She proceeded to tell me that there are NO tours of the cemetary! I politely differed, explaining that I'd been on one a few years earlier, she continued to insist, then told me it was a cemetary. ( Like I didn't know) I told her I knew it was, she then asked me why I would want to take a tour of a cemetary, her attitude was that it was disrespectful. I gave up on her then went to another hotel right next door- same thing except a little less 'attitude'. That clerk just said there aren't any tours. I wound up doing what I should have done in the first place, got online and of course found that Gray Line and Metz offer them and booked for one. While on the tour we were admonished several times to be quiet and respectful which is understandable but I noted a few folks carried it to extremes. I was standing with a group at the JFK gravesite and was softly telling my son something about him when my wife nudged me- we were getting nasty looks from some other people on the tour. I am no doubt making more of this than need be. For the record I was never in the military nor were there any service related deaths on either side of my family. It was just that i noticed a marked difference this time than 15 years ago when I last went. I don't know if it has something to do with the fundie penetration into the military but it was noticable. I did complain to the hotel and got a call back from the manager who was trying to narrow down who I had talked to. When he realized who it was he commented that she was from a military family so maybe that's why she feels that way but said he'd talk to her. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ro-bear Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 Quietly imparting history to your son is not disrespectful at all. Some people just need to disapprove. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norton65ca Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 stuffed shirts. I have several generations who served in various conflicts, and a number of great uncles who didn't return from the Great War (Percy fell on the first day of the Arras Offensive 1917, Tom was lost in an RNAS airship 1918) . One grandfather served on MTBs (RN) in the North Sea in WW2, great grandad was at Jutland on a destroyer, (WW1) other grandad landed in Sicily and fought the Germans all the way up Italy until they packed it in. My great grandmother was killed in an air raid on Bournemouth England 1943, as well as my great aunt in the same raid (FW190s, 22 of 'em coming in at 100ft off the channel at midday) I go to every Remembrance Day service, and stand at the cenotaphs come rain or shine, it's the least I can do... .... That being said, those lads (and gals) are long dead. (with the utmost respect for the deceased here...) I find it ridiculous the behaviour noted above. On Remembrance Day here in Canada, Families come out in their thousands to various parks and places where memorials are located, and the whole Remembrance Day thing is gaining in popularity as time goes on, strangely enough. the respect for the lost (regardless of one's opinion yea or nay vis a vis whatever conflict you choose to focus on) is at an all time high. I consider Remembrance Day my most "authentic" Stat holiday. I feel it has more relevance than any other, (esp. Christmas Day ;-) I enjoy the fact that so many come to pay their respects, and also to simply enjoy the life and freedom that we all share and that the lost do not. I enjoy seeing little children playing on the swings in the park adjacent to the cenotaphs, their voices pealing through the November air as they simply live. I feel strongly that not one of the resting dead would begrudge them this. I do not get my nose out of joint because a small child is asking a question, especially a question regarding "what's it all about?" when faced with those rows of stones. There's plenty of time for silence when one is dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sybaris Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 I would submit that during a time of conflict the place takes on greater reverence; silence being a conditioned behavior in recognition of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yrth Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 Good for you calling and complaining. My generation is reluctant to stick up for themselves like that. Definitely an overreaction by the Arlington people. As for why, idk, maybe they are still smarting from the recent Arlington debacle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RankStranger Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 We're a military-worshiping society. And some folks take that religion very seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paine Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 As a military wife, I would submit that the atmosphere is directly related to whomever is in charge and the fact that is a WORKING cemetery. It is a government agency, but the Army has a GREAT DEAL of control over the soup to nuts of that place. They had restrictions on FLOWERS if you can believe it, for a few years some time back. Caused a rigid pain in the ass for our family. So blame it on the leadership. And the war time status, of course, and the fact that fewer and fewer folks have served and perhaps are a bit rusty on protocol. I wouldn't say its a fundy thing, so don't be quick to judge....but also understand that they deal with war protestors ALL THE FUCKING TIME and that gets really tiresome. Spray paint...banners...bullhorns, you name it...There are plain clothes security crawling all over that place waiting to pounce on you if you begin to even HINT that you might disrupt the peace with some protest. You will never know who you might be standing near...fresh widow...mother with recently deceased son...my own FIL is buried there and my MIL goes once a month for the last nine years since his death like clockwork. It is a busy cemetery so that is why they are so strident about decorum but some administrators take it to ridiculous lengths. I think the mandate on silence is about decorum during a time where there are DOZENS OF BODIES BEING INTERRED THERE EVERY DAY THANKS (in part) TO THIS FUCKING RIDICULOUS WAR>>>YEAH I SAID IT>>>>> THE LIBERTARIAN MILITARY WIFE WHO FUCKING HATES WAR>> I hope you won't take it personally. The lady at the hotel was a clueless cunt.... but she doesn't represent the Arlington that I know and love. It is a peaceful, reflective place and those of us with loved ones there, now and in the future depend on the sanctuary to grieve amidst the tours that Americans NEED TO HAVE to appreciate the immense sacrifice of so many. I am GLAD you took the tour and brought your child. Everyone should go. And then head straight to the Holocaust Museum.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stamps1962 Posted July 9, 2012 Author Share Posted July 9, 2012 We're a military-worshiping society. And some folks take that religion very seriously. That was the feeling I got; it was like we were expected to treat it like a religous experience. I will try to find it - there is a YouTube video of several clips of prsonal videos taken by visitors to the tomb of the Unknown Soldier- it's of visitors being reprimanded for alleged disrespectful bevavior. Stuff like not remaining standing during the guard ceremony. The day we were there at the tomb my son was videotaping the changing and there was a group of people standing in back of him, who appeared to be loudly sharing their grief with the rest of us. You can hear them praying to Jesus, etc. I don't wish to sound disrespectful, but i thought that was over the top. Lastly, of all the gravesites for folks to be upset at when they hear someone talking- JFK?? Whatever his faults he loved life and he loved kids. He'd have been pleased that someone was telling their son about him at his gravesite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paine Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 The MILITARY side isn't the religious experience....but I TOTALLY UNDERSTAND and AGREE with your sentiment that we tend to "WORSHIP" our military....and there are atheists buried there too...but people need to grieve their own way, and anyone who visits should respect that. I wouldn't go to your mother's funeral and talk on a cell phone. Not because she is hovering over us "in spirit" but because, as I said, it is a WORKING cemetery ----and whether you agree with war OR NOT---(and this military wife DOES NOT, OBTW) it is about respecting the LIVING, GRIEVING family and keeping a safe environment in which they can grieve. I don't think this is about Fundies. I think it is about respect for grief. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norton65ca Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 ^^^ agreed. By my above post I was predominantly observing adult reaction to the sound of a child asking a quiet question. The minute of silence Nov. 11th on the 11th hour is observed by all at the national and local war memorials or cemeteries with deep respect in Canada, but hearing the sound of a child's voice certainly wouldn't bother me one bit, in fact I've heard it more than once. Now the sound of anti war protesters at that moment? That's quite another matter. I'm not in favour of a lot of the wars currently being fought but there's a time and a place and the minute of silence to remember the dead isn't it at all, in my opinion. cell phone talk would also, I think, be well out of order ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wester Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 We're a military-worshiping society. Conscious or unconscious, methinks it is violence that we worship, not military per se. Violence got us a whole continent to exploit. An army of free African labor to profit from. A great pool of oil in Iraq. And a world with our boots on their necks. Violence works and crime pays. Now at Arlington, I'm sure that if Kennedy was around he'd be quite happy that folks were yapping about any and all things. We have to keep our traps shut lest we start hearing unpopular, unconventional, unspeakable ideas like it was elements of the military itself that arranged for Mr. Kennedy to lay in that tomb. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stamps1962 Posted July 26, 2012 Author Share Posted July 26, 2012 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYCPbP_a46I A bit late- but heres the Youtube video I mentioned. I totally get enforcing an atmosphere of respect. Yelling at someone because they possibly had to sit during a ceremony (do to a physical condition) is a bit over the top IMO. But, that's me.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sybaris Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYCPbP_a46I Yelling at someone because they possibly had to sit during a ceremony (do to a physical condition) is a bit over the top IMO. But, that's me.. Did you accidentally post a different video cause I've watched it several times and I can't see the person you are referring to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stamps1962 Posted July 27, 2012 Author Share Posted July 27, 2012 The part I referenced occurs at about 1:22 in the video. I shouldn't have used the term 'yelling'- it was more of a strongly worded request. Probably these guards see all kinds of unbelievable stuff that visitors do, being a civillian and getting spoken to like you're at Paris Island is a little jarring. But, they have a job to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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