This Is The Myth We All Believed!

[Margee]

This picture sums up the myth I believed for soooo long. I look back now and I can hardly believe that I fell for a story, of a god who created his own opponent ..... as a result of this, I honestly spent most of my adult life thinking that this creature was pulling at me constantly.

 

One of the things I used to get soooo mad at, was the fact that I didn't ever feel that god or jesus could hear me, when I begged for him to get satan to take his hands off me. Most of you know, within 11 years, I lost my mom, only sister, took on her 2 grieving children, then dad died, and my husband walked out on me. (a born-again christian, I might add!) All within 11 years!! I didn't hardly have time to recover from one thing - when another diaster would strike. I went through years of depression and grieving and all the church told me was...Satan's got ahold of you and god's got his reasons for allowing all of this.. Stay strong and get as close to jesus as I could.

 

So, I just always thought that god allowed this 'testing' like Job and I had to pass this test somehow. I never did understand how god, who created the whole universe, could not stop this evil creature..... even to this very day...... can't seem to do it. Where was all the 'power' he supposed to have?

 

I know I was never as bad as some of the diasters in life that happen to people. I know families that can get 'wiped out' in one diaster.....It just always amazed me that god would allow his children to suffer like this. This was always very perplexing to me, even as a strong christian.

 

 

[GardenerGal]

What I heard so often was "we know who wins in the end." Well, what about NOW? Are they just arm wrestling until the second coming? I agree, cannot believe I bought into this.

[Akheia]

Is it okay if I find the demon figure strangely alluring?

[Margee]

What I heard so often was "we know who wins in the end." Well, what about NOW? Are they just arm wrestling until the second coming? I agree, cannot believe I bought into this.

He's a 'bad-boy'....yeah......lot's of muscles!! That's why I fell under his power..... C'mere big boy.....

[Carolorado]

The Job story has long bothered me, ever since I was a child. As always, we try to find a common ground with someone in stories. When Job's children and wife died, it was sad. But what got me was how god blessed him with another wife and kids and all was good. But, what about the wife and kids now dead? They died so god could trust their dad? And, worse yet, when he passed the test, the family was forgotten.

 

Even as a child, those questions really bothered me. Now I see it as the work of a very mean god. I think the Job story is disgusting and about greed.

[TotalWreck]

I'm glad it didn't take me as long as others to wake up from this nonsense. After 3 1/2 years of one bad thing after another happening to me, I thought, "Wait a minute. Why do I need to be tested non-stop over and over again when I'm trying to be the best person I can be while so many of these jerks in the world just sail through life with no problem?" I finally realized that this was either a sick twisted "god' or there was no god at all. I tend to lean toward the latter - at least that would actually make sense.

[MrsRoper]

Look at how lame Jesus is in that picture, the devil would totally kick his ass.

[centauri]

This picture sums up the myth I believed for soooo long. I look back now and I can hardly believe that I fell for a story, of a god who created his own opponent ..... as a result of this, I honestly spent most of my adult life thinking that this creature was pulling at me constantly.

I remember my shock when I learned how much of myth this really was.

Ironically, the Jewish scriptures( aka Old Testament) say nothing about Satan being an enemy of God.

The character Satan is God's servant who serves as man's accuser in God's court.

[ConureDelSol]

EUGH! This reminds me of something my aunt said during dinner last week.

 

"Whenever really bad things are happening to me, I know I'm about to get blessed!"

 

Her boyfriend lost his job, got robbed, and his mother went to the hospital all within the same month. Then he got a job again and got full-time (he was part-time before) and somehow, she considers this proof of what she says.

 

My parents just nodded and "amen"ed away.

[Margee]

I got invited to my 'christian' girlfriends house today for a swim in her pool. Her and I do not talk about my unbelief. It's like a closed topic and we both respect each other very much. However, today when I arrived, the pastors wife was there from my former church and another real good member. As I entered the gates to the patio..I wanted to run. They were so excited to see me. So I pretended 'happy' and gave thenm all a hug.

 

Immediately, they all started telling their horror stories in the past........4 suicides in one family... child died because hornet sting closed over his dear little windpipe...one 95 year old woman who buried all her children and was 'racked' with depression as to why the lord didn't 'take her home.......GAWD!!!!

 

All I wanted to do was go for a nice swim and talk quietly with my friend. I couldn't take anymore after an hour and could feel my 'smiley', pretend face starting to turn to a frown...... (That's not good!! ) I got up and left when they all agreed that 'gawd' had his reasons for everything that he does and we are not allowed to question his ways......

 

Then the pastors wife admitted 'information' about how her husband really didn't like a lot of people........

TOOOOOOO much information!!

 

I'm glad to be home on the computer with my EX-c friends....where 'things' in life just make more sense!!

 

I'm gettin' my own swimming pool next year........

[Antlerman]

I'm currently reading this book that you might find worthwhile, putting the role of the Satan in Jewish and Christian mythology, how it evolved over time. Satan in the NT, especially in the later early Church fathers, is NOT how Satan was understood in the OT, escpecially in the book of Job. Satan worked for God as his agent to do his will, to break down things that someone was doing to prevent them from doing God's will. Anyway, worth looking at: http://www.amazon.com/The-Origin-Satan-Christians-Demonized/dp/0679731180

 

 

Now for my take in a deeper context. As I look at that image of Jesus arm wrestling with Satan I see things that your average myth-believing Christian doesn't see. I see Satan as Jesus' shadow persona manifest. He is wrestling with himself. The shadow is that part of ourselves we do not wish to see and bury, suppress, and deny. It is experienced by us as 'other', as darkness, demonic, evil, spiteful. It is our self we don't wish to acknowledge, but we all have it. In denying it, it acts out within us in all manner of dysfunction. We even actively hate others that we see who subconsciously trigger that in ourselves we don't want to see. It leads us to into neurosis and pathologies.

 

Here's the problem with the way our West sees this. It tells us we should deny it, fight it, repress it, and hence why in this picture we see Jesus trying to defeat Satan in a battle of wills. "I will beat you!". But who is he beating? Himself? How can a house divided stand??

 

Margee, you asked the other night when I said to End3 to give his anger what it wants - love, what I meant. This is what that means. Instead of trying to crush that side of ourselves, and instead of giving into its misbehavior through us trying to throttle it into submission, or releasing it in a barrage of bad behaviors, give it what it really wants, what it isn't getting and acting out because of that. Love. To defeat the devil, metaphorically speak, we embrace it! Not in its negative acting out, but in what it really wants - acknowledgment and acceptance. Accepting that, is to accept ourselves and make us whole. This is the pairing of opposites. We are both. The acting out is only a result of denying it. It's not its nature. The acting out is its dysfunction, resulting through us hating our selves.

 

We are such a repressive culture. No wonder we're so damned neurotic. I'd rather see the picture with Jesus embracing Satan and releasing himself from his own bondage to his own fear.

[mcdaddy]

I'm currently reading this book that you might find worthwhile, putting the role of the Satan in Jewish and Christian mythology, how it evolved over time. Satan in the NT, especially in the later early Church fathers, is NOT how Satan was understood in the OT, escpecially in the book of Job. Satan worked for God as his agent to do his will, to break down things that someone was doing to prevent them from doing God's will. Anyway, worth looking at: http://www.amazon.com/The-Origin-Satan-Christians-Demonized/dp/0679731180

 

 

Now for my take in a deeper context. As I look at that image of Jesus arm wrestling with Satan I see things that your average myth-believing Christian doesn't see. I see Satan as Jesus' shadow persona manifest. He is wrestling with himself. The shadow is that part of ourselves we do not wish to see and bury, suppress, and deny. It is experienced by us as 'other', as darkness, demonic, evil, spiteful. It is our self we don't wish to acknowledge, but we all have it. In denying it, it acts out within us in all manner of dysfunction. We even actively hate others that we see who subconsciously trigger that in ourselves we don't want to see. It leads us to into neurosis and pathologies.

 

Here's the problem with the way our West sees this. It tells us we should deny it, fight it, repress it, and hence why in this picture we see Jesus trying to defeat Satan in a battle of wills. "I will beat you!". But who is he beating? Himself? How can a house divided stand??

 

Margee, you asked the other night when I said to End3 to give his anger what it wants - love, what I meant. This is what that means. Instead of trying to crush that side of ourselves, and instead of giving into its misbehavior through us trying to throttle it into submission, give it what it really wants, what it isn't getting and acting out because of that. Love. To defeat the devil, metaphorically speak, we embrace it! Not in its negative acting out, but in what it really wants - acknowledgment and acceptance. Accepting that, is to accept ourselves and make us whole. This is the pairing of opposites. We are both. The acting out is only a result of denying it. It's not its nature. The acting out is its dysfunction.

 

We are such a repressive culture. No wonder we're so damned neurotic.

 

So jebus should be hugging da debil, not arm wrasslin him, right?

[Antlerman]

So jebus should be hugging da debil, not arm wrasslin him, right?

You're quick! I just added that in an edit as a last minute thought.

[raoul]

Margee and the rest of the gang - Yeah, I've had my stories about the devil as well but nothing like what all of you have shared. My biggest problem is that if this god is so freaking powerful, why is the alleged devil allowed to literally DESTROY peoples' lives day after day? Yes I know all of the xtian tripe and answers about it but all of them are found lacking to say the least. And it seems as though the xtians have pretty bad horror stories to tell as well but most of them just shrug them off as though they're being tested for the great beyond.

 

Margee, you are SSSOOO right in avoiding them in the future - for the sake of your sanity and reality based life. I only come in contact with them via some radio shows I listen to but those are intended for my own use in future videos I'm gonna make eviscerating their lousy teachings. Everything they say is pure bullshit and nothing more. And they love using the devil to scare the crap out of everyone including themselves. In fact, they're nothing more than a bunch of cowards, hiding in fear, hating the world and all of us 'worldly' people. They are unable to come to grips with reality so they have to make up their fantasy based world.

[Overcame Faith]

I'm gettin' my own swimming pool next year........

 

I'll be waiting for the invitation to go swimming!!

[mcdaddy]

I'm gettin' my own swimming pool next year........

 

I'll be waiting for the invitation to go swimming!!

 

Skinny dip!!!

[Overcame Faith]

 

Margee, I'll tell you how I see this picture. It's an interesting representation.

 

If, as many Christians see Satan as the father of lies, an evil doer, the entity whose minions possess people, the cause of all harm on earth, then this picture shows the exasperation of Christians who want their Jesus to do something worthwhile. Here is Jesus arm wrestling this "evil" creature. That activity on Jesus' part is worthless for those who are being attacked by Satan. While people are being attacked by this evil creature, the only thing Jesus can do is to try to put his arm down. In this representation, Satan has already won because he has cajoled Jesus into doing nothing at all to stop him.

 

Come to think of it, this image is a representation as to why many of us leave Christianity - the alleged savior is worthless!!

[sarahlee]

Margee and the rest of the gang - Yeah, I've had my stories about the devil as well but nothing like what all of you have shared. My biggest problem is that if this god is so freaking powerful, why is the alleged devil allowed to literally DESTROY peoples' lives day after day? Yes I know all of the xtian tripe and answers about it but all of them are found lacking to say the least. And it seems as though the xtians have pretty bad horror stories to tell as well but most of them just shrug them off as though they're being tested for the great beyond.

 

Margee, you are SSSOOO right in avoiding them in the future - for the sake of your sanity and reality based life. I only come in contact with them via some radio shows I listen to but those are intended for my own use in future videos I'm gonna make eviscerating their lousy teachings. Everything they say is pure bullshit and nothing more. And they love using the devil to scare the crap out of everyone including themselves. In fact, they're nothing more than a bunch of cowards, hiding in fear, hating the world and all of us 'worldly' people. They are unable to come to grips with reality so they have to make up their fantasy based world.

 

I don't remember who said it in another post, but it really stuck with me: If gawd is testing us..why? what the hell for? What does he need from us that he needs to toughen us up first? I was under the impression that gawd DOESN'T need us, so why does he bother with us at all? And why bother creating the devil, if he knew the he would make our lives miserable.

 

I just had a slight revelation that made me very angry.

 

Gawd's a troll.

[TotalWreck]

I got invited to my 'christian' girlfriends house today for a swim in her pool. Her and I do not talk about my unbelief. It's like a closed topic and we both respect each other very much. However, today when I arrived, the pastors wife was there from my former church and another real good member. As I entered the gates to the patio..I wanted to run. They were so excited to see me. So I pretended 'happy' and gave thenm all a hug.

 

Immediately, they all started telling their horror stories in the past........4 suicides in one family... child died because hornet sting closed over his dear little windpipe...one 95 year old woman who buried all her children and was 'racked' with depression as to why the lord didn't 'take her home.......GAWD!!!!

 

All I wanted to do was go for a nice swim and talk quietly with my friend. I couldn't take anymore after an hour and could feel my 'smiley', pretend face starting to turn to a frown...... (That's not good!! ) I got up and left when they all agreed that 'gawd' had his reasons for everything that he does and we are not allowed to question his ways......

 

Then the pastors wife admitted 'information' about how her husband really didn't like a lot of people........

TOOOOOOO much information!!

 

I'm glad to be home on the computer with my EX-c friends....where 'things' in life just make more sense!!

 

I'm gettin' my own swimming pool next year........

 

See, this is the shit that fucking blows me away and shows how deluded people are. How can ANYONE tell depressing, horrific story after another and then say that we aren't allowed to question "god"? Please! And as usual, when they don't have answers, it always goes back to "God has his ways" bullshit. God's ways are FUCKING SADISTIC if there's a god!

 

Oh, and nice one about the pastor. Those "lord's helpers" sure are good men, aren't they? That comment was proof that pastoring is nothing more than a job to him. I can only imagine how many other pastors feel the same way.

[midniterider]

 

Margee, I'll tell you how I see this picture. It's an interesting representation.

 

If, as many Christians see Satan as the father of lies, an evil doer, the entity whose minions possess people, the cause of all harm on earth, then this picture shows the exasperation of Christians who want their Jesus to do something worthwhile. Here is Jesus arm wrestling this "evil" creature. That activity on Jesus' part is worthless for those who are being attacked by Satan. While people are being attacked by this evil creature, the only thing Jesus can do is to try to put his arm down. In this representation, Satan has already won because he has cajoled Jesus into doing nothing at all to stop him.

 

Come to think of it, this image is a representation as to why many of us leave Christianity - the alleged savior is worthless!!

 

Good point. Why has Jeebus been battling Satan? If he don't want him doing what he's doing then just zap him. Or is Jeebus a little wimpy? Or does Jeebus not want to beat Satan?

[Margee]

I'm currently reading this book that you might find worthwhile, putting the role of the Satan in Jewish and Christian mythology, how it evolved over time. Satan in the NT, especially in the later early Church fathers, is NOT how Satan was understood in the OT, escpecially in the book of Job. Satan worked for God as his agent to do his will, to break down things that someone was doing to prevent them from doing God's will. Anyway, worth looking at: http://www.amazon.co...d/dp/0679731180

 

 

Now for my take in a deeper context. As I look at that image of Jesus arm wrestling with Satan I see things that your average myth-believing Christian doesn't see. I see Satan as Jesus' shadow persona manifest. He is wrestling with himself. The shadow is that part of ourselves we do not wish to see and bury, suppress, and deny. It is experienced by us as 'other', as darkness, demonic, evil, spiteful. It is our self we don't wish to acknowledge, but we all have it. In denying it, it acts out within us in all manner of dysfunction. We even actively hate others that we see who subconsciously trigger that in ourselves we don't want to see. It leads us to into neurosis and pathologies.

 

Here's the problem with the way our West sees this. It tells us we should deny it, fight it, repress it, and hence why in this picture we see Jesus trying to defeat Satan in a battle of wills. "I will beat you!". But who is he beating? Himself? How can a house divided stand??

 

Margee, you asked the other night when I said to End3 to give his anger what it wants - love, what I meant. This is what that means. Instead of trying to crush that side of ourselves, and instead of giving into its misbehavior through us trying to throttle it into submission, or releasing it in a barrage of bad behaviors, give it what it really wants, what it isn't getting and acting out because of that. Love. To defeat the devil, metaphorically speak, we embrace it! Not in its negative acting out, but in what it really wants - acknowledgment and acceptance. Accepting that, is to accept ourselves and make us whole. This is the pairing of opposites. We are both. The acting out is only a result of denying it. It's not its nature. The acting out is its dysfunction, resulting through us hating our selves.

 

We are such a repressive culture. No wonder we're so damned neurotic. I'd rather see the picture with Jesus embracing Satan and releasing himself from his own bondage to his own fear.

 

Man-oh-man Antlerman, I always aprreciate these other 'outlooks'. I love how you see this. I have always, for a long time, believed what I dispised in someone else...I have the same trait. I am very aware of that concept.

Ya know, Antlerman......I think I am really getting to this stage of accepting, embracing and loving the dark side of myself that I have hated for many years.

 

......you know - even 'niceness' has a dark side. I find people who are always 'nice' to get on my nerves. I always thought they were phoney... being nice all the time. And lo and behold.... this would have been me my whole life. I am not saying this in a braggy way at all because my motivation and desire.... because of low self estteem.... was to be approved of. I WAS being phoney for a lot of my life. So I started to forgive and 'love' this 'phoney' girl who sought for aprroval her whole life. And now I look at 'people pleasers' in a new light.

 

How does one 'love' their anger, depression? Do you just wrap your arms around yourself and say, 'I accept you right where you're at'' I think I've been wrestling my 'dark side' for a long time.

 

My 'dark side' is what took me down to the alter after every Sunday service, begging god to take some of my actions, thoughts, anger, behaviors away from me.........

 

I will look at that book..I like Elaine Pagels!

[WMDKitty]

I'm currently reading this book that you might find worthwhile, putting the role of the Satan in Jewish and Christian mythology, how it evolved over time. Satan in the NT, especially in the later early Church fathers, is NOT how Satan was understood in the OT, escpecially in the book of Job. Satan worked for God as his agent to do his will, to break down things that someone was doing to prevent them from doing God's will. Anyway, worth looking at: http://www.amazon.co...d/dp/0679731180

 

 

Now for my take in a deeper context. As I look at that image of Jesus arm wrestling with Satan I see things that your average myth-believing Christian doesn't see. I see Satan as Jesus' shadow persona manifest. He is wrestling with himself. The shadow is that part of ourselves we do not wish to see and bury, suppress, and deny. It is experienced by us as 'other', as darkness, demonic, evil, spiteful. It is our self we don't wish to acknowledge, but we all have it. In denying it, it acts out within us in all manner of dysfunction. We even actively hate others that we see who subconsciously trigger that in ourselves we don't want to see. It leads us to into neurosis and pathologies.

 

Here's the problem with the way our West sees this. It tells us we should deny it, fight it, repress it, and hence why in this picture we see Jesus trying to defeat Satan in a battle of wills. "I will beat you!". But who is he beating? Himself? How can a house divided stand??

 

Margee, you asked the other night when I said to End3 to give his anger what it wants - love, what I meant. This is what that means. Instead of trying to crush that side of ourselves, and instead of giving into its misbehavior through us trying to throttle it into submission, give it what it really wants, what it isn't getting and acting out because of that. Love. To defeat the devil, metaphorically speak, we embrace it! Not in its negative acting out, but in what it really wants - acknowledgment and acceptance. Accepting that, is to accept ourselves and make us whole. This is the pairing of opposites. We are both. The acting out is only a result of denying it. It's not its nature. The acting out is its dysfunction.

 

We are such a repressive culture. No wonder we're so damned neurotic.

 

So jebus should be hugging da debil, not arm wrasslin him, right?

 

Forget hugging...

 

(click to embiggen)

[Antlerman]

How does one 'love' their anger, depression? Do you just wrap your arms around yourself and say, 'I accept you right where you're at'' I think I've been wrestling my 'dark side' for a long time.

It's not that you love the anger or depression, but the repressed and denied you which is 'acting out' in these ways. It's kind of like we as an adult are throwing a temper tantrum. You don't love the behavior, but look to the source of why that behavior is coming out. Why does someone gossip all day long about other people? Because they don't want to look at themselves. When we see behaviors like this surface in ourselves, it becomes a queue to us of some disquiet in ourselves. So instead of acting out, we sit down in quite, find that place of seeing our own self naked before our waking eyes, and embrace that person inside of us that isn't getting what they really want which is your own love and acceptance. In giving it that, it is at peace, and you are at peace with yourself, and being at peace with yourself you are quite inside, and being quite inside allows you to see others in compassion.

 

A word of wisdom, that in areas like these it is often not necessary to understand "why" we are a certain way. It most often really isn't something that you can penetrate by reasoning it through. It's often far deeper and more existential than that. Its a case of 'whatever that is' simply being released in us - again, not its anger, but its deeper desire to be loved. Just do this as a visual. First practice a mediation where you gently quite all the stray and swirling thoughts of your mind to where you are calm. As you feel those feelings of negativity rising up in the background, instead of fighting against that voice - ignore its thrashing and instead see it as an upset child that just wants you to hold it. Mentally embrace that with love, seeing beyond its surface to the soul within it. Hold it in your arms, pull it into yourself and together with it, open it to love. Just watch what happens! Again, it's not embracing the anger, but that upset child who is acting out. Love that child who feels the need to act out.

 

There is a huge amount I can say about this, but I'll keep it simple here. This is something I somehow instinctively knew to do when I was first practicing meditation and could feels this 'dark presence' come up at one point. I've since learned this is a certain Buddhist practice called Feeding the Demon. I just did a search and found this that I just read and it underscores what I am saying. It honestly seems counter-intuitive to how we are trained to think in the West, but it makes perfect sense, and it is extremely effective and powerful. It's the bringing together of opposites in ourselves, and together, united, we are far more powerful and at peace than when we are divided. http://stefnoble.blo...se-feeding.html

 

My 'dark side' is what took me down to the alter after every Sunday service, begging god to take some of my actions, thoughts, anger, behaviors away from me.........

I look at it this way, God, as understood in the minds of the average Christian, is visualized as some external being out there to intervene and do things for us down here. Instead, going to that altar is really an act of coming before yourself in a form of meditation. What the Christian doesn't do is to use that experience to heal themselves, through such a visualization of that deity. That visualization takes that part of ourselves we are bound up within and lays it before that higher image, that visualization of God. That internal act allows us in a moment to quite that bees nest of the mind, and hopefully through that encounter those other parts of ourselves buried beneath the noise. Instead what the average Christian does is approach this as a child who hasn't yet developed an internal knowledge of self and identifies everything on the surface, including God. God is the parent to make the world right for them. They do not include themselves, they do not engage themselves through these acts.

 

What these rituals do is again, a means to an end. They are symbolic forms designed to allow our subconscious, non-verbal minds a means to become known to our conscious minds. In that act, there becomes a coming together of the parts which had become divided, and we become 'healed', or to put another familiar word to it "saved". To the child mind "saved" means some non-internal, positional change like moving to another house. They are still the same child! It is not understood in the sense of transformational growth. Anyway, you can ponder this for awhile.

 

 

P.S. I want to add to this which came to mind at the end of my own meditation today. "The ritual is the external form of an internal, symbolic process." Understanding this puts an entirely different understanding to religious form and practice. Is it practiced and experienced as that internal process, or is it the form alone, taken and understood literally without engaging the interior self? This to me is the dividing line in any religious or spiritual practice, not questions of whether "God" exists or not.

[TotalWreck]

Forget hugging...

 

(click to embiggen)

 

LMAO!!

[ZoeKnows]

I always believed that God allowed tragedy because he cared about our character growth & I guess a lot of the pain I would experience did make me stronger, so it fed into this idea. Without the pain, would I be as tried & true..? Part of the reason I no longer hold a belief though...is because how can you have a genuine love relationship with any one if you are afraid of what they will allow to happen to you? If I believed my husband would not defend me if a rapist was in our home, I would not love him very much. I realized my love was very fear-based and unhealthy. This post is a great reminder for me, that I no longer have to fear the devil in my life. If I have a bitchy day, I don't have to worry about what God might allow, in order to fix my character flaws.